Champion Data’s List & Player Ratings - An Accurate Tool or Total Fabrication ??

LordLucifer

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2002
19,924
18,831
AFL Club
Carlton

I was looking through these 'rankings' and pondered whether they are an accurate reflection of each club's list or just a heap of meaningless stats cobbled together to come up with a skewed set of conclusions ??

I'm not against these sorts of things but I do question the accuracy and how they arrived at their findings.

Also who is Champion Data and what else do they do to give them some credibility in this area ??

By the way, I'm not going to nit-pick which club has what on their list, it's all rather subjective.
 

Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Aug 19, 2009
6,421
15,095
AFL Club
Richmond
Champion data are the 'official' producer of stats for the AFL. They have a large team of analysts pulling apart every game for individual and team stats.

Their method is:
"Champion Data’s list ratings are based on individual talent. They do not take into account anything to do with the team as a collective. The formula takes into account a player’s output, game time, what position they play and what they contribute to each position."

So what they do is compare individuals to other individual playing a similar role, then assign them to a category of talent. Then just add up the number of players in the various categories. So informative, but quite misleading on its won.

E.g. they state the Saints 2 elite players are both rucks. Is that a positive or not?
Players improve and get worse over time. So a team full of old guys at some stage might fall off a cliff. A team full of young guys maturing together might just jump suddenly.

It's a very blunt instrument to assess a team. Actually look at Melbourne. They were ranked #1 in 2019, but had a poor list balance with few run and carry players. Teams adjusted to their style and suffocated them. Same amount of talent, but list balance is very important.

I take this is a huge grain of salt

Image result for grain of salt
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

scoman

Premiership Player
Sep 19, 2013
4,491
4,870
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Brisbane have dropped a spot over the course of a year despite the massive jump in performance. Seems pretty odd.

However we did lose a few players who may have been ranked quite highly by champion data and replaced them with kids. Maybe that's the reason?
 

HTPunter

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 27, 2014
5,336
6,334
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Its complete garbage produced for the stats obsessed.

What I would love to see is what the clubs do with the data they get. That would be far more interesting but sadly they dont like to share.
Mostly the clubs just overuse it to pretend like they are genius groundbreakers in the league and sport as a whole.
 

GastevsBeard

Team Captain
Aug 18, 2009
544
1,570
AFL Club
Richmond
Champion data seems to be something of a monopoly of match-day analytics, selling it back to clubs. 'Fanalysts' get very little access to this kind of information compared to global sports

I think this is a problem for analytical innovation in the industry. In recent years there is a growing gulf between the statistical metrics of footy, & who actually wins. The three-peat Hawks, and more recently the Tigers win games through ruthless efficiency, regularly conceding 'key metrics'
 

RonnieRaven

Mature age recruit
Jun 12, 2018
368
435
AFL Club
Fremantle
It’s garbage how can the only player in the comp in 2019 that averaged 20+ disposals and kick 40 or more goals not be elite going in to 2020
Elite: the best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons
By definition he is one of only a few that can actually be called elite
 

nineteen eighty

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 18, 2003
6,000
5,703
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
TIGERS
It’s garbage how can the only player in the comp in 2019 that averaged 20+ disposals and kick 40 or more goals not be elite going in to 2020
Elite: the best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons
By definition he is one of only a few that can actually be called elite
Sorry who are you referring to?
 

liz

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 14, 2001
5,403
1,843
AFL Club
Sydney
I do wonder if they read through their list of “elite players” and ask themselves whether their output makes any sense.

Jeremy Finlayson and Taylor Walker are apparently elite key forwards yet Tom Hawkins and Josh Kennedy aren’t? Anthony McDonald-T is an elite general forward but Charlie Cameron isn’t? We have SEVEN elite ruckmen in the competition?
 

sprockets

Premiership Player
Oct 15, 2004
4,173
6,350
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond

I was looking through these 'rankings' and pondered whether they are an accurate reflection of each club's list or just a heap of meaningless stats cobbled together to come up with a skewed set of conclusions ??

I'm not against these sorts of things but I do question the accuracy and how they arrived at their findings.

Also who is Champion Data and what else do they do to give them some credibility in this area ??

By the way, I'm not going to nit-pick which club has what on their list, it's all rather subjective.
Just a list of stats. They're not totally meaningless, but they don't give the whole picture, otherwise everyone would be able to pick the ladder, Brownlow and GF winners from those stats.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Jason mp

Premium Gold
Aug 31, 2015
18,197
34,886
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Valleys. Chelsea.
Do their statistics take into account impact per possession or difficulty of disposal?

Is a Dustin Martin disposal where he's running down the wing and then kicks across his body and hits a player 40 meters away on the chest with a worm burner in the center corridor 30 meters out from goal worth more than a straight 40 meter pass down the line to an open player?
 

Coops93

Premiership Player
Aug 19, 2015
4,564
8,941
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Arsenal, Denver Broncos
Thought they got Carlton's list right in terms of who is elite. You disagree?
Didn't look. In case you couldn't tell from my comment I don't really value anything Champion Data has to say, at least in regards to rating players.
 

Jimbojay

Debutant
Feb 11, 2017
115
206
AFL Club
Carlton
Melbourne and Adelaide were clearly the most elite 2 teams in 2019 as predicted by Champion Data this time last year, so clearly it's very accurate
 

blitzer

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 27, 2006
6,465
7,010
AFL Club
Essendon
I'm not a huge fan of their actual player ratings. They are obviously excellent at producing the raw statistics but when they put out analysis to show whose the best players at certain positions I'd say they aren't great. Some positions are more accurate than others - like ruck and small forward might be more accurate and conversely key defenders are extremely weighted towards intercept players over lockdown players.

I do enjoy the player heat maps showing where players get the ball and things like that.

Overall they play their role in putting out statistics of all kinds but the inferences they draw from them are probably not nearly as good as fan driven analysis would be if we had access to the same resources they do.
 

dylan93

Club Legend
Mar 16, 2011
1,967
1,419
AFL Club
Melbourne
Take it with a massive grain of salt. We were first on this last year.

Also on this one it looks like they've criminally overrated the likes of North.

Also player ratings wise they don't know what they're doing. I think I saw on one of these they had the likes of the Wagner brothers & ANB ranked higher than Harmes which is insane!
 

Top Bottom