Are key defenders the least important players on a list?

[qwertyboy]

Just a good one to ponder a lot of talk in the media and wider community is that as long as you have a competent ruck it’s all that matters but are key defenders the same?
Obviously like rucks there are exceptions like max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

and Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

25

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

who are match winners on there day. Same can be said for key defenders like Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

28

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

and Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

, but like rucks do the unbelievable talents of you’re Darcy Moores and Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

mean that teams are overpaying through the salary and through draft picks for nothing more than mediocre talks that can’t play forward?
I feel a good key defender is important but not essential a rag tag group of keys that are from different backgrounds of failed key forwards and bush leagues are just as good than overpaying for these 200cm “good on the eye” keys

 

[Toump Ass]

Nah.

 

[MF]

No. We figured this out pretty quickly in 2023

 

[TheUnicorn]

No

 

[qwertyboy]

Since 2010 this is some of the key defender drafted in the first round
Seb Tape
Matthew Watson
Lachie plowman
Kristin Jacksch
Aidan Corr

4

Aidan Corr

Age

29

Ht

195cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.2

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

291.0

4star

D

13.9

3star

K

11.1

4star

HB

2.7

2star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

291.0

4star

D

7.2

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.6

4star

Matthew Scharenberg

12

Matthew Scharenberg

Age

28

Ht

191cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.4

3star

MG

215.0

3star

D

13.3

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

157.0

3star

D

15.2

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

5.0

5star

T

1.2

3star

MG

226.8

4star

Caleb marchbank
Sam Durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

27

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

Aaron Francis
Griffin logue

19

Griffin Logue

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

115.4

2star

D

9.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.0

2star

MG

115.4

2star

D

9.8

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

115.4

2star

Aidan bonar
Fisher Mcasey
Brodie Kemp
Denver Granger Barass
Nik Cox
Zach Reid

The proof is in the pudding injuries have hurt a lot of these guys but it’s the exact point I’m making why spend a top 15 pick on a key defender when more than 50 percent of the time it ends in heartache

 

[The 747]

Nah. Our run since 2000 has been built on key defenders.

 

[Danw0w]

No, this is a ridiculous call.

 

[qwertyboy]

Nah. Our run since 2000 has been built on key defenders.

A father son and a mature age key defender?

 

[qwertyboy]

I’m in agreeable that key defenders are important but don’t be spending a too 20 pick or 800k for them

 

[Stottzy]

Well I would say that premierships have been won from having superstar key position backs. The missing piece of the puzzle for our threepeat was Brian Lake

Brian Lake

Age

42

Ht

195cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

6.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

163.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

4.6

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.6

3star

.

From there you've got Rance, Grimes with Richmond, May and Lever with Melbourne, Geelong have had Scarlett and Taylor and the list goes on!

Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

would be the only superstar premiership ruckman in the last 13 years. So I'd still say Ruckman.

 

[The 747]

I’m in agreeable that key defenders are important but don’t be spending a too 20 pick or 800k for them

Harry Taylor was a first round pick.

Tom Lonergan was pick 23.

Sam De Koning is a first round pick.

 

[qwertyboy]

Harry Taylor was a first round pick.

Tom Lonergan was pick 23.

Sam De Koning is a first round pick.

Harry Taylor was a mature age draftee.
Tom Lonergan was a failed forward that got a second life in defence and Sam De Kooning had a great breakout last year but would be in the top 15 key defenders in the comp

 

[qwertyboy]

Well I would say that premierships have been won from having superstar key position backs. The missing piece of the puzzle for our threepeat was Brian Lake.

From there you've got Rance, Grimes with Richmond, May and Lever with Melbourne, Geelong have had Scarlett and Taylor and the list goes on!

Max Gawn would be the only superstar premiership ruckman in the last 13 years. So I'd still say Ruckman.

Brian Lake was amazing but also a pick in the 60s origanlly
Dance a father son so given more time Grimes a pre season pick up that took 5 years to get going.

 

[The 747]

Harry Taylor was a mature age draftee.
Tom Lonergan was a failed forward that got a second life in defence and Sam De Kooning had a great breakout last year but would be in the top 15 key defenders in the comp

And?

 

[qwertyboy]

I hope I’m clear when I say that key defenders can be found from anywhere mostly from outside the first round and on little money. These players are system based and look a lot better in better teams obviously.

 

[qwertyboy]

And?

My point exactly a good key defender in an unreal team can be found for minimal money or draft capital

 

[The 747]

My point exactly a good key defender in an unreal team can be found for minimal money or draft capital

The same goes for every position on the ground. I decline to allow your argument.

 

[qwertyboy]

The same goes for every position on the ground. I decline to allow your argument.

If you are building a list all I’m saying is that I wouldn’t be putting draft capital or big money into a key defender

 

[lordbob]

Hawks '08 lost their best key back (croad) and dropped off. Only when they got Brian Lake

Brian Lake

Age

42

Ht

195cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

6.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

163.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

4.6

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.6

3star

were they able to win 3 in a row.

Coincidence?

 

[PieLebo87]

 

[Stottzy]

Brian Lake was amazing but also a pick in the 60s origanlly
Dance a father son so given more time Grimes a pre season pick up that took 5 years to get going.

Yeah I wouldn't waste a high draft pick on KPB, but would choose one over a ruckman. Odd that many high draft ones have failed.

 

[Toump Ass]

Been a while since Lever and May were both in AA form. Funnily enough, that also coincides precisely with the last time Melbourne weren't s**t.

 

[Back One Out]

Just a good one to ponder a lot of talk in the media and wider community is that as long as you have a competent ruck it’s all that matters but are key defenders the same?
Obviously like rucks there are exceptions like max Gawn and Sean Darcy who are match winners on there day. Same can be said for key defenders like Darcy Moore and Steven May, but like rucks do the unbelievable talents of you’re Darcy Moores and Harris Andrews mean that teams are overpaying through the salary and through draft picks for nothing more than mediocre talks that can’t play forward?
I feel a good key defender is important but not essential a rag tag group of keys that are from different backgrounds of failed key forwards and bush leagues are just as good than overpaying for these 200cm “good on the eye” keys

Key defenders of premiership teams

2022 - Sam De Koning... Jack Henry.... (with Blicavs & Stanley dropping back into the CHB zone)

2021 - Steven May...... Harry Petty....... Jake Lever

2020 - David Astbury... Noah Balta....... Dylan Grimes

2019 - David Astbury... Dylan Grimes

2018 - Jeremy McGovern... Tom Barrass... Will Schofield

2017 - Alex Rance...... David Astbury...... Dylan Grimes

2016 - Fletcher Roberts... Joel Hamling.... Dale Morris

2015 - Brian Lake....... James Frawley...... Josh Gibson

2014 - Brian Lake....... Josh Gibson

2013 - Brian Lake....... Josh Gibson

2012 - Ted Richards.... Heath Grundy........ Alex Johnson

 

[qwertyboy]

Key defenders of premiership teams

2022 - Sam De Koning... Jack Henry.... (with Blicavs & Stanley dropping back into the CHB zone)

2021 - Steven May...... Harry Petty....... Jake Lever

2020 - David Astbury... Noah Balta....... Dylan Grimes

2019 - David Astbury... Dylan Grimes

2018 - Jeremy McGovern... Tom Barrass... Will Schofield

2017 - Alex Rance...... David Astbury...... Dylan Grimes

2016 - Fletcher Roberts... Joel Hamling.... Dale Morris

2015 - Brian Lake....... James Frawley...... Josh Gibson

2014 - Brian Lake....... Josh Gibson

2013 - Brian Lake....... Josh Gibson

2012 - Ted Richards.... Heath Grundy........ Alex Johnson

This post is for my origanl point yes?

 

[Back One Out]

This post is for my origanl point yes?

Yeah, it's an interesting point you've raised

There are some high quality defenders among that lot, but also plenty of average/okay defenders alongside

I suspect everyone massively overrates individual talent and that premiership-winning defences are more about how the defenders help each other; how they work together; getting extra numbers to a contest; or getting across and covering for a teammate if he gets out of position.

Obviously, coaches would love to have 202cm Harris Andrews anchoring their backline. But if he doesn't get a timely chop-out from one of his teammates, then it doesn't really matter how good he looks.