Changes for the 3rd Test

[Belnakor]

Joe Mennie is like Ryan Murphy - chopped up at WAFL level but it's pretty clear he doesn't have the weapons to be a passable Test bowler.

He was a poor selection and performed accordingly.

History has shown us if you cant hit 135km as a quickie you are going to get chopped up at test level. If you can't bowl at that pace you will not make it at the top level even if you can land it on a 5c piece. Mcgrath would be consistantly at 130+ not in the 120s.

i'd say he is a bit more like Troy Longmuir. His pace was fine at WAFL level but when he got to AFL level he just looked slow.

 

[Belnakor]

We've still got a tour of India to go. Things could get a lot worse.

4 test matches too jesus. We'll lose them all by an innings.

 

[frankrizzo]

I don't really know much about the SA system but what do they do that we don't?

I don't think that many SA internationals play country cricket on a regular basis do they? Do they play domestic cricket in asia?

If they don't why do they so often produce batsmen who can adapt? they don't play on pitches much different to us at home, they don't use the SG ball or the duke they don't play on rank tuners or often under cloudy skies yet in 9 years they have lost just once away from home.

Natural talent plays it part of course but even our best players in recent times didn't adapt as well as their best to swing and spin, mindset at the top must play a role as well, they clearly have a more open attitude and the mature approach that you can't play 100 test matches exactly the same way and just ignore the opposition and the conditions but there must be something more that they do at all levels that produces these adaptable resilient batsmen even though their conditions aren't really much better than ours at actually exposing them to these vastly different conditions.

 

[Belnakor]

I don't really know much about the SA system but what do they do that we don't?

they play alot more first class cricket than our guys do

 

[Coops93]

Cummins needs to come back into the side. Stop with this 'managing' rubbish. Blood the youth

He's played 1 first class game in the last 5 years. He's not getting a test nod any time soon. Although I'd like to see him back, the absolute earliest would be next summer IF he's able to put a few first class games together.

But I agree "managing" the bowlers has done nothing except hamper them. To an extent it needs to stop.

 

[Belnakor]

He's played 1 first class game in the last 5 years. He's not getting a test nod any time soon. Although I'd like to see him back, the absolute earliest would be next summer IF he's able to put a few first class games together.

But I agree "managing" the bowlers has done nothing except hamper them. To an extent it needs to stop.

the reality with Cummins is they just need to let him bowl and if he gets injured again then you draw a line through him. At the moment he isn't doing either.

 

[Kram]

That's for the most part beside the point. We can't pick and choose when to pick players in form. He'd performed and deserved a crack.

John Hastings was in very good shield form when he was picked. Doesn't mean it wasn't an obviously dumb idea to give him a baggy green at the WACA.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

John Hastings was in very good shield form when he was picked. Doesn't mean it wasn't an obviously dumb idea to give him a baggy green at the WACA.

Beside the point.

 

[bird_man]

Hopefully Bancroft can become a more consistent player at Shield level, because he'd be the perfect partner for Warner. But they can't pick him if he isn't making runs at Shield level, that would be madness.

 

[Kram]

Beside the point.

Not really. My point is that the player that is performing taking the most wickets or runs at the lower lever isn't always the best option to pick at the highest. If they don't think they are up to it at Test level yes they can ignore their form.

 

[Coops93]

the reality with Cummins is they just need to let him bowl and if he gets injured again then you draw a line through him. At the moment he isn't doing either.

In Michael Hussey's biography (it can be seen on YouTube. I'd recommend it, great video. Just over an hour long though) he says that AB joined them to coach for a bit. They did there normal net session a day before a game. Basically 5-10 minutes each batting and the bowlers bowling as such, only bowling for about half an hour. Apparently at the end AB was bemused by this. He questioned how anyone in the team could actually be prepared to play the next day. How can you bowl 10-15 balls in the nets then expect to go out into a first class match and bowl 20 overs in the day? Your body just couldn't handle it as it's not hardened to the rigours of long term bowling. The same with the batting, if you only bat for 10 minutes in the nets how on earth are you going to bat for 6 hours?

This lead to the famous Michael Hussey 6 hour net session. Where he batted in conditions replicating match day (lunch break after 2 hours, drinks breaks at an hour etc.).

The point of that being that by not letting Cummins bowl for longer periods they're actually stopping his body from being strong enough to withstand those rigours.


TL/DR Many years ago AB made the point to a team Michael Hussey was playing that there is no way they could be physically prepared to play a first class match by only bowling and batting for short periods in training. Could be why Cummins body keeps breaking down, not prepared for long term bowling.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Not really. My point is that the player that is performing taking the most wickets or runs at the lower lever isn't always the best option to pick at the highest. If they don't think they are up to it at Test level yes they can ignore their form.

beside the point, if you perform you deserve an opportunity.
If you're not up to it those opportunities are limited.

 

[Kram]

beside the point, if you perform you deserve an opportunity.
If you're not up to it those opportunities are limited.

Umm don't you reckon O'Keefe is crap and not up to it even though he has a very good shield record?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Umm don't you reckon O'Keefe is crap and not up to it even though he has a very good shield record?

We only play one spinner though. There is a difference.
I don't think he should replace Lyon.

 

[bird_man]

Clearly we aren't going to make four or five changes in one test match, but I would be happy to see this top 6 by the end of the summer.

Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Patterson
Lehman

Throw in Wade for some experience and grit at 7

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Clearly we aren't going to make four or five changes in one test match, but I would be happy to see this top 6 by the end of the summer.

Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
Patterson
Lehman

Throw in Wade for some experience and grit at 7

Khawaja is a number 3, how about we find an opener. SMarsh will be there unless we are punting on Bancroft. Lehmann is nowhere near ready.

 

[DangerIsLove]

Disgusted by our performance

Warner, Khawaja, White, Smith, Handscomb, Patterson, Wade, Faulkner, Agar, Hazlewood, Starc

 

[bird_man]

Khawaja is a number 3, how about we find an opener. SMarsh will be there unless we are punting on Bancroft. Lehmann is nowhere near ready.

Mate, don't talk to me about guys that aren't ready, you were pushing for the selection of Jordan Silk not that long ago.

I'm not saying we pick Lehman for Adelaide, this is the side I'd like to see for the future. Lehman is the only young batsman with an average close to 50, if he keeps that up why wouldn't we pick him?

As for the openers spot, if Bancroft can make runs than great, but he's not doing it at the moment. Justin Langer wasn't an opener but he did a pretty good job, Khawaja would be well suited to opening the batting. Who knows what will ever happen with Marsh, he's either getting dropped or injured, one thing I know for sure is that he's not a long term option, although if he's available for Adelaide, I'd pick him.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Mate, don't talk to me about guys that aren't ready, you were pushing for the selection of Jordan Silk not that long ago.

I'm not saying we pick Lehman for Adelaide, this is the side I'd like to see for the future. Lehman is the only young batsman with an average close to 50, if he keeps that up why wouldn't we pick him?

As for the openers spot, if Bancroft can make runs than great, but he's not doing it at the moment. Justin Langer wasn't an opener but he did a pretty good job, Khawaja would be well suited to opening the batting. Who knows what will ever happen with Marsh, he's either getting dropped or injured, one thing I know for sure is that he's not a long term option, although if he's available for Adelaide, I'd pick him.

Smith isn't a 3 either, when you find a 3, the best idea is to leave him there. It is the hardest position to get stability and it's the one position we have a guy who is half reasonable. Khawaja isn't going to open. Similarly Smith shouldn't bat 3, despite how many times Chappell tells you otherwise. He's perfect at 4 or 5.

No issue with Lehmann in the future, he has the tools, just needs a good season or two.

 

[threefa9]

Bugger it, bring in Head at 6 and bowl his offies and play a 4 prong pace attack of Starc, Hazlewood, Sayers and Bird.

 

[Kram]

Hopefully they bring M.Marsh back in for both a 5th bowling option and the BF melts.

 

[bird_man]

Hopefully they bring M.Marsh back in for both a 5th bowling option and the BF melts.

Can't see it happening, I think the selectors will be wanting him to make runs at Shield level for a while now.

 

[bungwahl]

He's played 1 first class game in the last 5 years. He's not getting a test nod any time soon. Although I'd like to see him back, the absolute earliest would be next summer IF he's able to put a few first class games together.

But I agree "managing" the bowlers has done nothing except hamper them. To an extent it needs to stop.

The whole idea of managing bowlers is ridiculous.

"In order to avoid our best bowlers getting injured and missing games we will voluntarily force our best bowlers to miss games"

 

[bungwahl]

Rod Marsh gooooone

 

[bird_man]

Rod Marsh resigns... think we might see a very different 11 for Adelaide