Changes for the 3rd Test

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I dont get the Wade/Nev shitfight. I wouldnt pick either.

Hanscomb is batting at 5 and can keep. Seems stupid that we're picking another keeper over an extra batsman/bowler. De **** isn't a perfect keeper but having a solid keeper who is a strong bat is a godsend.

Reminds me of when Healy was given a few extra games and Gilly was picked as a batsman only (and dropped a catch IIRC)

Pretty sure Haddin played as a batsman a few times when Gilly was keeping.

 

[JackOutback]

This is such a cop out defence of Neville.

It's not Gilchrist - it's Dhoni, it's McCullum (when he kept), it's De Villiers (when he kept), it's De Kock, it's Bairstow et al.

This is not some pipe dream that people have about the 2nd coming of Gilchrist. It's the standard for all the best countries who have an extra batsmen.

I don't even really think that Wade is the answer - in the context of picking so many other young players I would've had a look at Whiteman. But I do know that, on his test match batting to date, Neville is not the answer.

Outside of Dhoni, the rest are batsmen that keep. Mostly effectively, but I'm not sure I would want to go down the path of choosing Handscomb or Bancroft to keep. It'll cost you in the long run.

The bigger problem for Nevill was coming in too often when there were no runs on the board, a heap of pressure, batting with a tail etc. Not sure Wade or Bairstow or co would do much better under the circumstances. I agree an average of about 30 is the minimum, but when the top 6 is barely averaging that over the last couple of series, not sure how much you can put on the keeper.

 

[Cleavy]

Reminds me of when Healy was given a few extra games and Gilly was picked as a batsman only (and dropped a catch IIRC)

Gilly was very average in the field without the gloves in those games. Tried to hide him and the ball kept following him.

 

[dogs105]

D

Gilly was very average in the field without the gloves in those games. Tried to hide him and the ball kept following him.

Dropped 2 at slip in one ODI

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Gilly was very average in the field without the gloves in those games. Tried to hide him and the ball kept following him.

He was ok - however they made the assumption that because he could Keep - he would be good in the slips - he wasn't

He was fine in the outfield

 

[Cleavy]

He was ok - however they made the assumption that because he could Keep - he would be good in the slips - he wasn't

He was fine in the outfield

He didn't have a strong throwing arm though, lobbed them a bit like Bevan.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

This is such a cop out defence of Neville.

It's not Gilchrist - it's Dhoni, it's McCullum (when he kept), it's De Villiers (when he kept), it's De Kock, it's Bairstow et al.

This is not some pipe dream that people have about the 2nd coming of Gilchrist. It's the standard for all the best countries who have an extra batsmen.

I don't even really think that Wade is the answer - in the context of picking so many other young players I would've had a look at Whiteman. But I do know that, on his test match batting to date, Neville is not the answer.

A dropped catch is worth more than 10 runs IMO.

Wade's keeping is deplorable - to make up for the runs he costs us as a keeper, he would need to average the same as a top 5 batsman (if not more) and as such - just pick him as a batsman.

IMO - picking the Test keeper is pretty simple. Line of the keepers who are of international quality with the gloves. That doesn't mean they have to be Ian Healy, just international quality.

Once you have that group - then go pick your best batsman.

Wade wouldn't make it to the second set of criteria. Mind boggling decision.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

He didn't have a strong throwing arm though, lobbed them a bit like Bevan.

He isn't on his pat malone there. The strong arms really from most of the fielder really is a last 10 years thing. And even then the likes of Marsh, Khawaja, Burns are pretty lame still.

With Gilly - I was more talking about his ground fielding, moving to the ball etc.. he was rubbish in as a catcher - but around the ground he didn't stick out

 

[Carlos Danger]

It's batsmen not batters.

No I think it's battlers

 

[Doodlesweaver]

He isn't on his pat malone there. The strong arms really from most of the fielder really is a last 10 years thing. And even then the likes of Marsh, Khawaja, Burns are pretty lame still.

With Gilly - I was more talking about his ground fielding, moving to the ball etc.. he was rubbish in as a catcher - but around the ground he didn't stick out

From the 70s, Alan Border and the Chappells had great arms. Chappells because of baseball, maybe AB had played baseball too.

It's more like the last 20 years that players have had great arms regularly. Aus fielding is lame at present, one of the reasons I'm glad that Burns is out, he's mediocre in the field. He has to score runs regularly to make up for that. Can't give Smith Khawaja and him to hide in the field.

 

[The City Boyz]

From the 70s, Alan Border and the Chappells had great arms. Chappells because of baseball, maybe AB had played baseball too.

It's more like the last 20 years that players have had great arms regularly. Aus fielding is lame at present, one of the reasons I'm glad that Burns is out, he's mediocre in the field. He has to score runs regularly to make up for that. Can't give Smith Khawaja and him to hide in the field.

Yeah, AB played baseball..

 

[to1994]

The fact that they didn't go straight back to Wade after Haddin suggests they don't rate him that highly. I think it's a poor decision considering India is so close, would've liked to see Wade actually warrant selection with some big shield scores as well as let someone like Whiteman who's maybe found some form stake a claim.

By going with Wade now you expect he'll play through until the Ashes (probably all of it given it's not a great time to replace a keeper) granted his keeping isn't a complete disaster in India. Nevill had a long run despite not offering much with the bat so Wade at least deserves half as much time.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Kinda feels like Nevill was dropped because of the failures of the top 6 batsmen. His primary job is to keep. He needs more runs, thats obvious, however he has a FC aveage of 37 (over 40 before he debuted) which means he can bat. Just feels like we need the best keeper with future tours in mind (india etc.) as drops are so costly.

On another note, bit disappointing none of the top 6 can bowl anything. Smith doesn't bowl himself anymore. Maddo can bowl a few dollies but thats about it.

These days, a keeper needs to be able to hold down #7 with the bat. Ideally, they'd be capable of holding down #6 or even higher, if it allows an allrounder to play and bat 7. Whether we like it or not, that's the reality.

So averaging 22 with only a couple of 50s after a decent Test run just isn't going to cut it. And his keeping is not so brilliant as to outweight that.....he's not Darren Berry standing up to pace bowlers.

EDIT: Plus he's 31 years old. If it was Sam Whiteman in his early-mid 20s, you might persist with him on the basis that you might get a decade of service.

 

[Pacman Carney]

He's kept. He doesn't keep. "Not a perfect keeper" wouldn't really describe up Handscomb as much as "very poor keeper" does.

Correct.

Can we all please drop the Handscomb can keep rubbish. Trent Copeland would be a better keeper.

 

[Slax]

Outside of Dhoni, the rest are batsmen that keep. Mostly effectively, but I'm not sure I would want to go down the path of choosing Handscomb or Bancroft to keep. It'll cost you in the long run.

The bigger problem for Nevill was coming in too often when there were no runs on the board, a heap of pressure, batting with a tail etc. Not sure Wade or Bairstow or co would do much better under the circumstances. I agree an average of about 30 is the minimum, but when the top 6 is barely averaging that over the last couple of series, not sure how much you can put on the keeper.

De Villers came into the side as a keeper, same as Sangakkara. Alec Stewart was the one who changed the way people look at it not Gilchrist. Stewart was already in the England side as a batsman, but they felt they wanted more batting than what Jack Russell could offer them.

Whiteman is the future I feel, but at the moment we need more than just a keeper batsman. Wade is in the side over Nevill on two main items:
Presence - he is vocal and yappy like Healy, he loves a dog fight and having to grind things out. Nevill is a bit quiet and reserved.
Experience & Leadership - with the loss of Voges it really means that there aren't many in the side who are really that experienced on the world scene, we have Smith & Warner as batsmen, Starc as a bowler, Lyon is but he's only in the side because O'Keefe broke down again. Wade has played a lot of ODI & T20 cricket, is Victorian captain as well and that will be invaluable to Smith to have someone behind the stumps to bounce ideas off whilst he is at slip.

What we are hearing is that Wade has done a fair bit of work on his keeping in the last 18 months, to a point where maybe his keeping isn't as bad as what many think. Time will tell I guess.

 

[Slax]

From the 70s, Alan Border and the Chappells had great arms. Chappells because of baseball, maybe AB had played baseball too.

It's more like the last 20 years that players have had great arms regularly. Aus fielding is lame at present, one of the reasons I'm glad that Burns is out, he's mediocre in the field. He has to score runs regularly to make up for that. Can't give Smith Khawaja and him to hide in the field.

I remember seeing Dean Jones get a run out at the Adelaide Oval in the late 80s when the boundary was the fence. It was not uncommon to see a 5 all run then and they took on Jones' arm thinking he'd relay it in only to discover he could carry the distance.

 

[ROOTA#6]

I remember seeing Dean Jones get a run out at the Adelaide Oval in the late 80s when the boundary was the fence. It was not uncommon to see a 5 all run then and they took on Jones' arm thinking he'd relay it in only to discover he could carry the distance.

Deano had a cannon

 

[Quicky]

My take, over-all really positive moves. Renshaw is selected after good form and with an eye to the future. Klinger the only real other option to open but the state of the team and his age makes him close to unselectable despite deserving better on form. Handscombe is a good selection in the middle order. Wade also to add more fight to the middle is a no brainer despite the criticism. Maddinson is the only real head scratcher as a flaky underwhelming slasher. The wrong type for our current middle order and better options for that style to boot. Patterson should have that position sewn up. Lyon saved by injuries.

 

[Quicky]

Any chance Marsh comes back into the side at 6 if Renshaw bats well?

 

[JackOutback]

Any chance Marsh comes back into the side at 6 if Renshaw bats well?

If Renshaw performs and Maddinson doesn't, I think it's a given Marsh will slot into his preferred spot at 5 and Handscomb at 6.

 

[Quicky]

If Renshaw performs and Maddinson doesn't, I think it's a given Marsh will slot into his preferred spot at 5 and Handscomb at 6.

We'd look a far more solid team on paper if that were the case. If you then add Agar over Lyon the tail with that middle order begins to pack more of a bite.

 

[Quicky]

Assuming everyone is fit, and assuming we select 3 fast bowlers and 1 spinner, what is our best bowling attack?

 

[Big Bryza]

Whilst the panic button has been mashed mercilessly - if indeed the imprimatur is to revamp the side - I can understand all of the decisions... except one.

Matthew Wade FFS. Unless he is batting in the top 6 and Handscomb (not much chop as a keeper) is keeping - he has no place near the Test side.

Nevill can keep and at least valued his wicket - and if you want to take a punt like Renshaw, bring in Whiteman.

Nevill has been a failure.

 

[JG22]

Wade (being colour blind) says the pink ball takes a little longer to pick up.
Ahh that sounds like a potential issue against the likes of Rabada

 

[Big Bryza]

How did Nevill go from potentially moving up the order to persona non grata in the space of two Tests?

Coz he can't bat.