Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 20 vs. Carlton, MCG, Fri 28/07, 7:50pm

[pablo disco bar]

Won't happen but before finals I would like to see ginnivan,mcinnes and whe play

If we need them in finals they need to be upto speed

 

[3rdMan]

So he is holding his own with other mids, whilst naicos is the standout? And they have all been picked together in the same team?

Selection problems are good to have. Not sure WHE for Mitchell is the answer. Would be almost worth it though - just to see the BF WHE haters go nuts.

No, if we're just going on clearance numbers, his are poor for his position. Certainly since Nick has entered the midfield. Adams has more and was playing largely forward for 3/5 games. Nick has far more. Pendles has more with less CBAs and De Goey almost matching him despite missing games.

You can argue he's doing other things well in that time but not clearances. The only acceptable game on those numbers was as the sub in the Freo game.

Just based on clearances, there are questions to ask of an inside mid specialist with these numbers. As mentioned his full game clearance numbers with Nick in the middle: 4, 4, 3. It can't be argued that these are good. You can argue other things that he's doing well, but not clearances.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Won't happen but before finals I would like to see ginnivan,mcinnes and whe play

If we need them in finals they need to be upto speed

1 per week ?

Or just play them together, Pablo ?

 

[Fat Jesus]

.

No, if we're just going on clearance numbers, his are poor for his position. Certainly since Nick has entered the midfield. Adams has more and was playing largely forward for 3/5 games. Nick has far more. Pendles has more with less CBAs and De Goey almost matching him despite missing games.

You can argue he's doing other things well in that time but not clearances. The only acceptable game on those numbers was as the sub in the Freo game.

Just based on clearances, there are questions to ask of an inside mid specialist with these numbers. As mentioned his full game clearance numbers with Nick in the middle: 4, 4, 3. It can't be argued that these are good. You can argue other things that he's doing well, but not clearances.

Dunno but judging by your thoughts, Mitchell will not be our first choice inside midfielder.

Let's see who Fly chooses come finals.

 

[3rdMan]

.

Dunno but judging by your thoughts, Mitchell will not be our first choice inside midfielder.

Let's see who Fly chooses come finals.

Never said that. Talking objectively about clearances only. Read my other posts and you'll see I expect he'll continue to be selected and have left open the possibility that he's doing good, less obvious, things outside of clearances. Certainly would also say that he's had a good year. It's only recently with Nick and Adams playing midfield that there's possibly some questions.

I've posted a fair bit on this because I find it interesting. Not here to pot him or say who should be in the team, just discussing possibilities, some seem to take that personally. We have no impact on selection, it's just talk, so it really doesn't matter if people have different views.

 

[swoop42]

We shouldn't forget that it was only a couple of weeks back wasn't it that Mitchell was under an injury cloud and seemingly had to pass a fitness test to play.

Was reported as some form of neck injury if I recall correctly though how accurate that was who knows.

That alone might well be the reason he started as our substitute against Fremantle while also contributing to his output against Port.

While the discussion about Mitchell has been a reasonable and respectful one I wouldn't be calling for his omission.

We need to remember he was targeted for a reason and for mine he's held up his end of the bargain so far in areas we wished to improve in.

If however he's playing through injury currently and it's starting to limit his impact, we may need to reassess our options and rest him completely if deloading during training and on game day isn't working as hoped.

For the record here are some stats on Mitchell this season and his team ranking for each one.

Average Disposals 25.61 #3
Average Effective Disposals 18.61 #2
Average Handballs 15.28 #2
Average Contested Possessions 11.50 #1
Average Clearances 5 #2
Average Centre Clearances 2 #2
Average Stoppage Clearances 3 equal #1
Average Tackles 5.71 #1

 

[Scodog10]

We shouldn't forget that it was only a couple of weeks back wasn't it that Mitchell was under an injury cloud and seemingly had to pass a fitness test to play.

Was reported as some form of neck injury if I recall correctly though how accurate that was who knows.

That alone might well be the reason he started as our substitute against Fremantle while also contributing to his output against Port.

While the discussion about Mitchell has been a reasonable and respectful one I wouldn't be calling for his omission.

We need to remember he was targeted for a reason and for mine he's held up his end of the bargain so far in areas we wished to improve in.

If however he's playing through injury currently and it's starting to limit his impact, we may need to reassess our options and rest him completely if deloading during training and on game day isn't working as hoped.

For the record here are some stats on Mitchell this season and his team ranking for each one.

Average Disposals 25.61 #3
Average Effective Disposals 18.61 #2
Average Handballs 15.28 #2
Average Contested Possessions 11.50 #1
Average Clearances 5 #2
Average Centre Clearances 2 #2
Average Stoppage Clearances 3 equal #1
Average Tackles 5.71 #1

I think you’ve missed the context of the discussion based on posting these numbers.

 

[jmac70]

I think you’ve missed the context of the discussion based on posting these numbers.

Why don’t you tell us the context of the discussion?

 

[Scodog10]

This is the other path that’s a watch. Mitchell’s problems in terms of holding his spot stem from Naicos moving into the midfield and being the dominant stoppage player we missed in 2022. Entering the season we all thought that would be Mitchell, but JDG’s suspension flipped the script.

Right now the choice is between a linking small mid with limited hurt factor or low possession runner who can give you something in the air. Mitchell needs a good stoppage match this week to solidify his spot, IMO.

checks clearance numbers since Naicos has transitioned into the midfield

Mitchell 19 v Naicos 42

In the same time period Adams has 22, Pendles 20, De Goey even has 16 despite playing 3 of the 5 games in that block. My post was entirely accurate and his credits are why I suggested it was a watch.

No, if we're just going on clearance numbers, his are poor for his position. Certainly since Nick has entered the midfield. Adams has more and was playing largely forward for 3/5 games. Nick has far more. Pendles has more with less CBAs and De Goey almost matching him despite missing games.

You can argue he's doing other things well in that time but not clearances. The only acceptable game on those numbers was as the sub in the Freo game.

Just based on clearances, there are questions to ask of an inside mid specialist with these numbers. As mentioned his full game clearance numbers with Nick in the middle: 4, 4, 3. It can't be argued that these are good. You can argue other things that he's doing well, but not clearances.

Why don’t you tell us the context of the discussion?

I’ve bolded the relevant information to make it a bit simpler for you to get your head around

 

[sr36]

Mitchell is the ‘clearance assist’ player, scrapping and burrowing under packs to harass, spoil, tackle, tap, knock-on, force the ball our way and/or ultimately win 1st possession

That possession doesn’t “clear” the stoppage (therefore likely isn’t recorded by Champion Data) but gets it to a player that does.

He spends half his time on his knees, has curbed his natural game but this is the exact role he was recruited for.

The bolded would be credited as a clearance to Mitchell - it goes to whoever starts the clearing chain.

 

[sr36]

To make this a fair comparison you need to assess our number of total clearance pre and post ND.
If they remain unchanged it just means ND has taken his share from our other mids. If our overall clearances are drastically up then that would indicate ND’s true impact.

We'd been outplayed around stoppages for at least a month before ND went there.

 

[sr36]

Dunno but judging by your thoughts, Mitchell will not be our first choice inside midfielder.

Let's see who Fly chooses come finals.

Mitchell is on the edge. Jordy and ND are our trump card mids. And we've got Pendles, Adams, Mitchell and Crisp to support them - with Mitchell and Pendles playing midfield only. The question is do we keep Mitchell in and play Crisp and Adams vastly in non-centre square roles - or do we include another running back or forward like Markov or WHE and use Crisp and/or Adams more in the centre square. If they're all fit and noone has a slump, one of WHE, Markov or Mitchell is likely to miss and one of them probably as the sub.

 

[Scodog10]

Mitchell is on the edge. Jordy and ND are our trump card mids. And we've got Pendles, Adams, Mitchell and Crisp to support them - with Mitchell and Pendles playing midfield only. The question is do we keep Mitchell in and play Crisp and Adams vastly in non-centre square roles - or do we include another running back or forward like Markov or WHE and use Crisp and/or Adams more in the centre square. If they're all fit and noone has a slump, one of WHE, Markov or Mitchell is likely to miss and one of them probably as the sub.

Which two would you choose in the 23?

 

[sr36]

Which two would you choose in the 23?

I can't believe I'm saying it, because I think he's an awesome footballer, but I'd leave out the Brownlow Medallist.

 

[No SPIN]

I can't believe I'm saying it, because I think he's an awesome footballer, but I'd leave out the Brownlow Medallist.

Of those mentioned, who’s got the best ability to read the tap?
I’d say Mitchell is close to ND, and Jordy with a significant gap to the others.
“First hands” IMO is the most critical skills at stoppages, and centre bounces.
I think Mitchell is a little banged up, but his best is very good and will be important in finals.

 

[Scodog10]

I can't believe I'm saying it, because I think he's an awesome footballer, but I'd leave out the Brownlow Medallist.

I’d love to get the splinters out of my arse, but I need another fortnight.

Right now it’s a race in two though. I think Saturday taught us that if the opposition take our intercept marking away we need run so Markov will be best 22 from here. At least I hope that was the learning.

Public commentary says Mitchell>WHE and we have two matches to tinker so if we don’t see a change by the Geelong match it won’t happen without an injury, IMO. For now though I’m sticking with what we’ve got until either an injury or Fly and co choose another path.

 

[Maggie5]

Game Day - Collingwood v Carlton, MCG Friday 28 July, 7.50pm

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