Changes Rnd 2

[Madtiger2006]

In: Post, Polak, Graham
Out: Simmonds, Hislop, Moore

Obviously we need the extra tall defender in Post and the extra tall forward in Polak and a young ruckman in Graham. Btw, Mcguane had 1 crappy kick but he kept his opponent quiet for most of the night.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

In - Tuck, Graham, Post, Collins
Out - Simmonds, McGuane, Nahas, Tambling

Protected species like Tambling and McGuane both retreated into their shell when under fire. Got to be much bolder than that. Edwards cost us a couple of goals with errors, but he was very stiff with that mark and goal given to Betts in Q1. At least he attacks, need to persist with him. For all the Graham knockers last year he beat both Mitch Clark and Darren Jolly in back to back games. He's got decent upside - all Simmonds has is a backside

 

[the ranger]

Tambling didn't get much of it, but a bit harsh to say he retreated into his shell..was hard at the ball and racking up the tackles. Not a good game in all, but I don't think it was through lack of endeavour.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

OUT: Nahas, Edwards, Simmonds, Vickery, Hislop
IN: Post, Polak (Ruck), Graham, Tuck, Polo

 

[thecotch]

Out : Simmonds , Jackson

Newman, nahas and tambling were deplorable too.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Connors - Dumb.

I thought he was in our best half dozen or so d7, made some errors but he ran well, got plenty of it and what he did right was better than anyone else in the backline - our captain was easily the worst defender for either side.

Graham - Doesn't provide much around the ground but will compete. Should of played tonight.
Post - Why didn't he play?
Tuck - We were hopeless in the clearances.

All three of these omissions disturbed me yesterday, but I gave Hardwick and the selection comittee the benefit of the doubt - i.e. that Vickery had a big pre-season and was much fitter and stronger (not even close to enough to be an AFL ruckman), that blokes like Thomson, Tambling and Cotchin with support from Martin were fit enough to collectively replace Tuck (not even close) and that we'd at least play Morton in a pseudo key forward role and force a lot of 1-on-1's between he and his opponent (he was bizarrely benched and then played as a flanker/pocket when on the field) instead of having a genuine 2nd key forward.

Strange team selection, really strange setup...no hard tags on Carlton's few gamebreaking players, no system whatsoever from kick-ins, loose man at centre bounces when we're getting flogged in the clearances, no ruckman at contests in the forward line and around the ground...and most bizarre of all? We were told to expect ugly, defensive football, and then in actuality, we got involved in a half-long shootout which gave us no chance whatsoever of running out the whole match.

Hey RW, aren't you the same person who claimed every goal we scored in the nab cup match versus hawthorn featured Shane tuck and that he was a certainity to play round 1

I said that much of our 2nd half turnaround was thanks to Tuck, and those of us with eyes saw that it was - he got more possessions than most in just a half and virtually every disposal was clean, effective, and constructive.

He should have been a certainty to play. It was obvious on paper that we didn't have enough midfield grunt to run out the game or win enough ball, I can only assume that either a) he's being taught some sort of lesson by Hardwick after his BOG pre-season performance against Collingwood, b) the match selection committee deliberately picked a side which couldn't win, c) the match selection committee is too clueless to know that taking an obviously unfit Cousins, Jackson who's had an interrupted pre-season, hot and cold (for much longer) Deledio and Tambling, nowhere man Thomson and a bunch of kids into a game is a fantastic recipe for a midfield hammering.

...any reason we play better with Jackson outside the centre square ?

Because generally his opponent - who is generally the no.1 opposition midfielder - rotates out of the midfield at the same time? (though he didn't tag anyone tonight)

 

[Double the Fist]

I cant stop laughing at all the idiots saying get rid of thompson,farmer and vickery and bringing in tuck seriously the problem with not winning enough clearences came down us having a dead shit ruckman in simmonds.And as for the likes of farmer and thompson they were in the mix to being our best players.
And for vickery his in his second year and was playing against some big blokes so give him a break he also laid a couple of nice tackles that resulted in goals.

And connors to name another person who shouldnt be droped.

Tuck should be automatically included to show how the **** to get a hard ball and a clearance at ground zero. Seriously, Tucky is one of the best in the business and you clowns disown him like a lepper. Jesus he is a ****ing football god at your club and you show him no respect. I would choose him in every 22 except the cats and the saints.
roll ****ing eyes emoticon.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In - Tuck, Graham, Post, Collins
Out - Simmonds, McGuane, Nahas, Tambling
Thank god.....
Protected species like Tambling and McGuane both retreated into their shell when under fire. Got to be much bolder than that. Edwards cost us a couple of goals with errors, but he was very stiff with that mark and goal given to Betts in Q1. At least he attacks, need to persist with him. For all the Graham knockers last year he beat both Mitch Clark and Darren Jolly in back to back games. He's got decent upside - all Simmonds has is a backside

Really, I had no idea!...............................

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

Tambling didn't get much of it, but a bit harsh to say he retreated into his shell..was hard at the ball and racking up the tackles. Not a good game in all, but I don't think it was through lack of endeavour.

yes fair point forgot the tackles - he had 9 which out of team total of 59 says plenty about his endeavour. By retreat into his shell I meant should have taken the game on more and created for a guy of his experience and talent. I get frustrated with him taking 6 weeks of the season to get himself up and going, needs to lift

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Seems to me the only reason Tuck was not picked was his age. Doesn't matter what stage of building a team you are in the team should always still be picked on merit.

 

[Mr Magic]

Alright lets get serious shall we in no particular order



Out: Simmonds, Nahas, Nason, Farmer, Macguane( get in weight room and mass on the legs please for balance and standing ground), roberts,.

In: Tuck rotated through the backline, Taylor, Polak, Rance, Post, Webberly, ,( Tambling stays in but is told to stick the tackles)

I would be bringing in Astbury if Post, Polak don't stand up.

When thinking about this , apart from foley who is injuried we have a real lack of depth in our midfield it seems. Later might mean getting Dea and shifting Edwards upfield depending on matches

 

[_RT_]

Tuck wont play until he realises that there is a defensive side to footy. Yes he can get the footy but so too does his opponent. For mine Thomson is a much better option than Tuck on present form.

 

[jko'neal]

Out: One of Moore , Thursfield or McGuane. Said it a thousand times these 3 can not possibly play in the same backline.

In: Anyone at our club that can compete in a marking contest or ruckwork inside our attacking 50m.

 

[TimeFor11]

Can the Goo ruck?? Haha, well for mine Post needs to come in and be dumped at FF. I hate it when we get it at HB then just ****ing stand there. End up bombing away to JR or MM who have 2 on them. Mind you I wouldn't change too much.

In: Post

Out would have to be a smaller type player maybe Relton will only get 1 game in there for now we will see. Also depending on TTs court hearing if he is good to go then he is the sort we are lacking. Blokes to kick the ****ing thing too would be nice.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Tuck wont play until he realises that there is a defensive side to footy. Yes he can get the footy but so too does his opponent. For mine Thomson is a much better option than Tuck on present form.

Because Thomson's opponents got hardly any footy tonight RT?

Or because in top flight with ample gametime like tonight he can:

Get half as many possessions as Tuck would get?

Get a quarter the number of clearances as Tuck would get?

Turn the ball over the same number of times as Tuck does, but from half the amount of disposals?

He's in his 6th season, it's not like we're blooding a kid with massive amounts of improvement left here, he should play something like a man by now and the fact is he doesn't. Small tank, no pace, dodgy kicking with zero penetration, none of the manic hunger for the ball a bloke with his deficiencies needs...he's a nowhere man placeholder based on what he's shown with us. I'd hoped he'd improved his fitness dramatically and earned a call-up, but there was no sign of that having happened. I hope he proves me wrong, but I highly doubt he will.

 

[TimeFor11]

Because Thomson's opponents got hardly any footy tonight RT?

Or because in top flight with ample gametime like tonight he can:

Get half as many possessions as Tuck would get?

Get a quarter the number of clearances as Tuck would get?

Turn the ball over the same number of times as Tuck does, but from half the amount of disposals?

He's in his 6th season, it's not like we're blooding a kid with massive amounts of improvement left here, he should play something like a man by now and the fact is he doesn't. Small tank, no pace, dodgy kicking with zero penetration, none of the manic hunger for the ball a bloke with his deficiencies needs...he's a nowhere man placeholder based on what he's shown with us. I'd hoped he'd improved his fitness dramatically and earned a call-up, but there was no sign of that having happened. I hope he proves me wrong, but I highly doubt he will.

His smother was nice . I wouldn't have any of them in the team once Foley is in there anyway.

 

[archiemoses]

I thought you guys were a chance tonight.

Fact is, if you slotted the simple set shots in the first and second quarter the game would have ended differently. Pressure is back on Carlton and your lads would have more confidence.

It is not easy to learn a new game plan and furthermore execute it perfectly. Give them time, you have some good youngsters.

 

[_RT_]

Because Thomson's opponents got hardly any footy tonight RT?

Or because in top flight with ample gametime like tonight he can:

Get half as many possessions as Tuck would get?

Thomson had 14 tonight, not great but when only 3 of 22 players manage to break 20 and none broke 25, I'd take that.

Get a quarter the number of clearances as Tuck would get?

Thomson had 4 clearances tonight, you trying to tell me Tuck would get 16 per game.

Turn the ball over the same number of times as Tuck does, but from half the amount of disposals?

Clangers tonight 0. Given he was at the bottom of packs on numerous occassions battling for the ball I'd forgive him not hitting a teammate on the chest with every touch.

He's in his 6th season, it's not like we're blooding a kid with massive amounts of improvement left here, he should play something like a man by now and the fact is he doesn't. Small tank, no pace, dodgy kicking with zero penetration, none of the manic hunger for the ball a bloke with his deficiencies needs...he's a nowhere man placeholder based on what he's shown with us. I'd hoped he'd improved his fitness dramatically and earned a call-up, but there was no sign of that having happened. I hope he proves me wrong, but I highly doubt he will.

How do you know he has no improvement left? He is a 24 year old with 32 games experience and spent his first season at the club battling a fairly serious chest injury. He has averged 6 games a season for the first 5 years of his career, bit hard to get any sort of development and consistency when you're spending a lot of time not playing at AFL level.

On the flip side, Tuck will be 29 at seasons end and would have next to no chance of being part of our next finals side, given that we're at least 3 years away from finals.

Given where we are in terms of rebuilding I would much rather we put gametime into a player who could well be still on the list in 4-5 years time when we are (hopefully) pushing for finals rather than a bloke who wont be.

 

[deledio7]

I thought he was in our best half dozen or so d7, made some errors but he ran well, got plenty of it and what he did right was better than anyone else in the backline - our captain was easily the worst defender for either side.

Might need to watch the game again. His errors just stuck in my head. Agree about Newman, needs to improve or he will find himself out the side.

All three of these omissions disturbed me yesterday, but I gave Hardwick and the selection comittee the benefit of the doubt - i.e. that Vickery had a big pre-season and was much fitter and stronger (not even close to enough to be an AFL ruckman), that blokes like Thomson, Tambling and Cotchin with support from Martin were fit enough to collectively replace Tuck (not even close) and that we'd at least play Morton in a pseudo key forward role and force a lot of 1-on-1's between he and his opponent (he was bizarrely benched and then played as a flanker/pocket when on the field) instead of having a genuine 2nd key forward.

Strange team selection, really strange setup...no hard tags on Carlton's few gamebreaking players, no system whatsoever from kick-ins, loose man at centre bounces when we're getting flogged in the clearances, no ruckman at contests in the forward line and around the ground...and most bizarre of all? We were told to expect ugly, defensive football, and then in actuality, we got involved in a half-long shootout which gave us no chance whatsoever of running out the whole match.

Yeah alot of strange decisions. Obviously Dimma and the coaching staff will improve with our players.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Thomson had 14 tonight, not great but when only 3 of 22 players manage to break 20 and none broke 25, I'd take that.

Jackson didn't break 25 because he spent the last 15 minutes of the match on the bench after that knock, and really RT, with Cousins obviously unfit/sick/whatever and Deledio, they were our only AFL standard and fitness mids.

Thomson is in a category well below that and 14 possessions for the amount of time he spent on the ball is not a pass - in combination with others not getting their hands on the footy, it's what leads to Carlton dominating the centre.

People are down on Connors for not being better coming into his fourth year in the system, but he's ahead of Thomson who's had six years. Connors can actually get to enough contests and win enough ball to rack up 20+ possessions and do a lot more with them than Thomson ever will.

Thomson had 4 clearances tonight, you trying to tell me Tuck would get 16 per game.

No, but I'd be surprised if Thomson averaged much more than a quarter of what Tuck gets a game, particularly when you include the non-stat earning bodywork Tuck does to get others clearances. It's like comparing a wrecking ball to a tonka bulldozer.

Clangers tonight 0. Given he was at the bottom of packs on numerous occassions battling for the ball I'd forgive him not hitting a teammate on the chest with every touch.

He had 50% efficiency...as I'm sure you know. Seven actually effective disposals in other words, five of them handballs. As I said, he may well have a bit of improvement left in him, but look at the low base he's starting from.

How do you know he has no improvement left?

I said "it's not like we're blooding a kid with massive amounts of improvement left here" - not anything resembling me saying he had "no improvement left."

I just don't think he has enough improvement left in him to be going leaving our no.1 ballwinner out for him. He's never once even dominated with a stack of possessions for Coburg has he?

On the flip side, Tuck will be 29 at seasons end and would have next to no chance of being part of our next finals side, given that we're at least 3 years away from finals.

Tuck was a late starter to AFL and he's among the most durable footballers the modern game has seen. Playing until he's 33-34 with the same output as now is hardly out of the question given his genes.

I was embarrassed watching Cousins in his current state getting a game ahead of Tuck, apparently on the basis that Tuck's too old to play in our next finals side...but we have different rules for a half-fit Cousins (the imagination really does run wild after seeing the state he was in tonight)?

Very poor from Hardwick and the selection committee IMO.

 

[Truetiger]

Out : Vickery, Farmer, Nason, Thompson
In: Polo, Polak, Graham, Tuck

You clearly did not watch the game. Nason played well and did enough to keep his place in the side. pfft wtf. You can not bring Tuck or Polo in either. So dump 1 kid after his first game and bring in 2 hacks. Tambling has to go on last nights effort. Rayzorwire On Cousins you need some bloody experience in the side.

 

[wes24]

You may well be the stupidest person to ever operate a keyboard PtF.

Jackson was the only thing we had resembling an AFL midfielder tonight and he wouldn't have made more than 3-4 errors (two of them from a clear lack of support from behind while being tackled) for the game among 25 or so possessions - the rest of them either solid or very good.

Deledio, Cousins, Cotchin, Newman - all your 'great ball users' - had less of the ball, turned it over more and had much less influence on the game.

Did you miss the wonderful irony of Deledio getting the ball 65m out with nobody on him, then mysteriously handballing to Jackson about 8m away right in front of him, marked with his back to goal, then Jackson managed to drill a 55m flat hard ball to Reiwoldt who goaled? Brett 'Magic Disposal'
Deledio passes the buck and dishes off to Daniel 'No Skill' Jackson, who makes good and gets the Tigers back into the game.
All night when we were competitive it was Jackson doing the heavy lifting and running himself ragged. He could barely lift his legs by the time he had a shot on goal late in the 2nd quarter because he covered way more miles than anyone else despite coming off an interrupted pre-season.

As for Simmonds, well yeah, he was horribly average, but he was also our best ruckman on the night by a long way, so why not whinge about Vickery being selected?

spot on mate spot on

 

[Brayds]

Anyone that thinks Farmer should be dropped is a very silly person!
Did nothing wrong last night! Did his job in his first game for the club and will only improve!
Not sure why he was taken off Betts to be honest!

 

[I'm the Juggernaut]

Out : Vickery, Farmer, Nason, Thompson
In: Polo, Polak, Graham, Tuck

You've got no idea have you. This is a throw back to the last 5 years. Add McMahon to your list and while your at it give Terry Wallace a call.

 

[Goldust]

OUT: Moore, Tambling
IN: Post, Polo/Tuck

Nothing to be gained dropping Nason, who was actually good and will get a lot better, and Roberts. Give them game time and let them find their feet.
Ditto for Vickery - besides the fact he is a far better option that Graham and Browne.
Again, not adverse to Polak playing ruck if Vickery was to go back to Coburg.
Those calling for farmer to be dropped clearly have no idea!

 

[denicat]

Connors i would like at geelong yes he stuff's up sometimes but takes the game on l like that about him.pick on the guys with more than 50 games there the one's that let you guys down