Changes v Saint Kilda (Round 19)

[Grimreepah]

Unless he's injured we don't have a strong tradition of omitting Ash. Agree with Crisp and Doc.

Voss, like any coach, will perservere with senior players, but getting subbed suggests they may be losing patience. My bet is he will be kept in the side, but I think his spot is now in question.

 

[Elixuh]

Voss, like any coach, will perservere with senior players, but getting subbed suggests they may be losing patience. My bet is he will be kept in the side, but I think his spot is now in question.

About sums up what I think. He can be very inconsistent in his performances and previous performances this season would suggest he should have been (probably was internally) in a similar position.

 

[Skoob]

He is a much better forward than backman. Not surprised he struggled yesterday as he seems to take longer to settle down back than move forward. I think he is the obvious choice to play on Milne (so I hope he can get back into that defensive frame of mind).

 

[Grimreepah]

About sums up what I think. He can be very inconsistent in his performances and previous performances this season would suggest he should have been (probably was internally) in a similar position.

In the past I have felt that he has been more consistent that what he was credited for (or not as inconsistent as was suggested), but it's hard to defend him now. Has really struggled since his fairytale game against Geelong.

 

[cjwalkley]

Out: Moloney (Inj) Docherty
In: Black Lester

I thought Doc was very poor with his disposal, and Black for an injured Moloney is a no-brainer.

Golby or Yeo would be very good match ups for Milne. If Riewoldt doesn't play, then we will see a very new look Saints forward line.

Raines must play and go to Dal Santo or Montagna. Dal Santo goes to water with a tag, but Montagna has been exceptional this year.

Jack Steven is a very damaging mid, and I expect Redden will get the head to head match up here. Jones will tag Rich, which will free up Black if he plays.

Maguire will take Hickey, and Clarke will take Stanley if no Riewoldt. Adcock to Lee, which will again engineer Patfull as loose man.

Up forward Brown and Merrett provide a nightmare match up with no Gwilt. Simpkin will have to match up on one, and he isn't big enough or good enough to be a key defender.

 

[daffo]

How bad is the Moloney injury?

 

[Elixuh]

How bad is the Moloney injury?

Reported at a hamstring I thought. Won't know much more until later today at the earliest (I would have thought).

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Voss, like any coach, will perservere with senior players, but getting subbed suggests they may be losing patience. My bet is he will be kept in the side, but I think his spot is now in question.

Subbing was probably more to do with his (ahem) less than ideal physical state in combination with the Darwin game.

 

[John]

Subbing was probably more to do with his (ahem) less than ideal physical state in combination with the Darwin game.

It makes me think that he may well be less committed than he once was.

 

[Triple R]

How bad is the Moloney injury?

It looked to be a high hamstring injury (he grabbed near his gluteus) and that is never a good sign. He may need a few weeks off. Although, he was able to wander off without too much discomfort.

 

[Grimreepah]

Subbing was probably more to do with his (ahem) less than ideal physical state in combination with the Darwin game.

Ash does seem to have bigger bones this year.

 

[rockypls]

Out - Raines, Crisp (both omitted), Moloney (inj), Clarke (rest)
In - Black, Polec, Karnezis, Lisle

edit - tempted to go mcgrath for bartlett too but i can see them giving he yet another chance to prove himself.

HF Zorko - Lisle - Karnezis
F Green - Brown - Bewick

Would really like to try this forwardline next week. With Gwilt out i can't see them containing our talls, especially if we give Staker a quick run there also.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

It makes me think that he may well be less committed than he once was.

Ash does seem to have bigger bones this year.

Actually I thought that he looked a little trimmer than earlier in the year. Could have been my imagination though.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Ive been a big fan of Raines, but his disposal is just not improving...he should play the ressies for the rest of the season and set up for a big pre-season

McGrath should retire in my eyes

No point breaking up Clarke and Goose as they are working well...Even if they want Merrett down back I think Merrett and Clarke have the speed and agilty to play the 3rd tall role...maybe push patful onto a tag role?

The play seems to break down when Bewick is involved...But I see promise with him so 50/50

 

[POBT]

Ive been a big fan of Raines, but his disposal is just not improving...he should play the ressies for the rest of the season and set up for a big pre-season

What do you think would change by him playing reserves and having a big pre-season?

 

[Balony_pony16]

What do you think would change by him playing reserves and having a big pre-season?

You seriously need a reply for that??? He needs to work on his kicking techiques....pretty standard for a players with serious deficiencies to be dropped back to ressies to work on things...Happens hundreds of times in the AFL throughout the year I would of thought.

Raines disposal is well below the most basic standard of a AFL player to the point he has become a huge liability with ball in hand. It might not change or it might...either way he isnt up to AFL standard and his challenge should be to go away and demonstrate significant improvement before getting back in the seniors

 

[POBT]

You seriously need a reply for that??? He needs to work on his kicking techiques....pretty standard for a players with serious deficiencies to be dropped back to ressies to work on things...Happens hundreds of times in the AFL throughout the year I would of thought.

Raines disposal is well below the most basic standard of a AFL player to the point he has become a huge liability with ball in hand. It might not change or it might...either way he isnt up to AFL standard and his challenge should be to go away and demonstrate significant improvement before getting back in the seniors

At 27 (28 by the start of next year), I think he's beyond help. He's had 10 years in the system - is one off-season going to be the solution? I doubt it.

I think we need to accept him for what he is. He's a below average kick and a poor decision maker. His skills lie in other areas - as with any player, the question is whether the team benefits from his presence enough that we can wear his faults.

But to think that we can fix the faults at this late stage of his career seems unrealistic.

 

[Balony_pony16]

At 27 (28 by the start of next year), I think he's beyond help. He's had 10 years in the system - is one off-season going to be the solution? I doubt it.

I think we need to accept him for what he is. He's a below average kick and a poor decision maker. His skills lie in other areas - as with any player, the question is whether the team benefits from his presence enough that we can wear his faults.

But to think that we can fix the faults at this late stage of his career seems unrealistic.

Yep...thats the challenge to him... Players still have the ability to improve their game in the late 20's...look at Tuck from the tigers. Was on the outer due to his poor disposal but worked hard to improve that late in his career. Challenge for Raines is too improve this part of his game...if not we need to develop another run with player

 

[POBT]

Yep...thats the challenge to him... Players still have the ability to improve their game in the late 20's...look at Tuck from the tigers. Was on the outer due to his poor disposal but worked hard to improve that late in his career. Challenge for Raines is too improve this part of his game...if not we need to develop another run with player

I disagree that that is why Tuck was on the outer.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I disagree that that is why Tuck was on the outer.

really? Ball magnet, clearance king, hard ball winner...his decision making and ball use was always questioned

 

[Balony_pony16]

anyway, my point was that Raines disposal is clearly not up to standard...not really debate worthy. He is a liability

 

[POBT]

So do you think Raines has gone into every single one of the 10 or so preseasons before this with a mindset that "my kicking and decision making is fine - don't need to work on that"?

I'm sorry balony but you are basically suggesting an over-simplistic solution to a problem which, IMO anyway, isn't able to be solved just by spending a bit more time kicking the footy over summer.

I think this season shows exactly where Raines is at. When we want to deploy a tagger, he is in the side. When we think that a tag is not the way to go, he is dropped.

 

[Balony_pony16]

So do you think Raines has gone into every single one of the 10 or so preseasons before this with a mindset that "my kicking and decision making is fine - don't need to work on that"?

I'm sorry balony but you are basically suggesting an over-simplistic solution to a problem which, IMO anyway, isn't able to be solved just by spending a bit more time kicking the footy over summer.

I think this season shows exactly where Raines is at. When we want to deploy a tagger, he is in the side. When we think that a tag is not the way to go, he is dropped.

"Over-simplistic"!!!!! You kidding....a player being sent down and told to work hard in improving his disposals under pressure? Good teams have taggers who can run both ways, and ATM Raines has had a bad run of games...He did show earlier in the year he was capable offensively (cant remember which game). AFL players always need to work hard too maintain and/or develop areas of their game regardless of age....You ask any AFL player in midway-twighlight of their career and they will always be working hard on their games. Raines is a professional footballer and Im sure he still gets 1 on 1 time with the coaches and is demanded he improved his skills...People talk about team standards alot, well raines too me seems to be slipping. It isnt just skills too, it is decision making which he definitely can make a big change on.

Anyway, sorry it comes as a Surprise...But I think raines comes out and Give a run with role to a Harwood or Redden. Or even use teh Pies tactic in no run with roles at times and make the whole midfield group accountable

 

[POBT]

Sigh.

I would drop Raines this week. I am not defending him....far from it.

And further, I would scout the AFL and and State Leagues for a defensive mid who is a better kick and decision maker because we need options in that role. I don't want to go into 2014 where Raines is our only proven option if we need to apply a tag.

But no magic bullet is going to solve his kicking problem. We either need to live with it and try and minimise the damage it causes or move on to other options.

 

[Harris Specter]

IMO, this is where the injury to Beams has hurt us. When on, he can tag and still rebound offensively and hurt the opposition. Hopefully Beams will be ready to go Round 1 next year.