Unofficial Preview Changes v St. Kilda (after the bye)

Status
Not open for further replies.

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Pacman82

Club Legend
Oct 24, 2011
1,536
1,334
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
MVFC
I have made this comment on another thread but last night I sat with two senior players and one of them said that the forwards often run back to apply defensive pressure, rather than lead up, take a risk of a turnover further up the ground.

There was a situation yesterday (may not been noticeable on the TV) where there was a huge hole in the Carlton zone. Everyone around me was calling for forward to drop into it for an easy kick. They all hung back and we bombed it into the pocket once again.

Hipwood and McStay not natural forwards?????
Yep, I recall the moment, 2nd qtr I think. If you were sitting around Asile 13-14 you'd have heard me yell out for someone to make a bloody lead!
 

3KZ is Football

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 17, 2008
14,277
14,329
In the grandstand at the Brunswick St. Oval
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fitzroy Football Club
I’ve called for Rayner to be dropped. I’ve called for us to only play 1 rucks. I’ve disagreed with the team selections heaps of times. Probably most weeks. But I also realise that the coaching panel knows a lot more about footy. So I’m happy to assume that their decisions to select a team best suited to execute the gameplan they think is most likely to get the win will much more often than not be better than what I would’ve done. And given our overall opinion it’s clear they’re doing quite a good job.

Also in hindsight I try to not make ridiculous comments like selecting Bastinac over Rayner would’ve made a big difference because I know that it isn’t as simple as that. Other people don’t analyse footy that deeply or critically and us ridiculous stat comparisons or comparing parts of the game to what kids do in the park. That’s just fine.

For clarity if I had been given the coaching role at some point this season and had full power over team selection I probably would’ve dropped Rayner too, probably for Keays. But that might not have been the right call.
Cool. Even though you and I often end up at loggerheads jackess, I respect your right to an opinion and agree with plenty in this post. Your passion is a positive and I hope we both get to share in some team highlights and success over the coming years. Disagreeing about players and tactics is not the end of the world. It is bound to happen in any online football forum. At least you and I can be counted on to take out Memberships and turn up to games and care about our club through thick and thin. It’s a passionate game.
 

3KZ is Football

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 17, 2008
14,277
14,329
In the grandstand at the Brunswick St. Oval
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fitzroy Football Club
I have made this comment on another thread but last night I sat with two senior players and one of them said that the forwards often run back to apply defensive pressure, rather than lead up, take a risk of a turnover further up the ground.

There was a situation yesterday (may not been noticeable on the TV) where there was a huge hole in the Carlton zone. Everyone around me was calling for forward to drop into it for an easy kick. They all hung back and we bombed it into the pocket once again.

Hipwood and McStay not natural forwards?????
I was going to post about the same thing Phil. We were sitting together and both spotted it immediately. There was a massive hole 30 metres out that nobody led to, so Hodge I think it was, just bombed it in. There was no other option.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
34,984
28,118
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
This off season we need to chain Cam Rayner to Nick Robertson and/or Jarrod Berry and have them drag him around churning laps out.

He'll come back with Brad Hill type running ability;).
Didn’t Matho follow Robbo around last preseason and he hasn’t improved his ability to run out games to a satisfactory level.
 

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
782
933
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
2 changes are self evident . Archie needs to go . Cam has been pretty much a liability for a few weeks , feel sorry for him having to get out there.

Hipwood's biggest asset for a 6ft 7 guy is his explosive pace yet he's always heading into a contest. Completely beats me. We don't use his best asset.

We're 2 M/F's short. Matho just doesn't get enough of it . Mitch has been great this year but just losing form at the moment. When Zorks went off yesterday it just highlighted how slow we are on any rebound. We're desperate for someone to come in who can hurt the opposition on rebound and the only guy in the 2's who might have at least some hope of doing that is Cutler. Maybe Bailey ,Starc when they're fit and T Berry when he's ready.

Eagles is a no brainer the way he takes the game on and contests at a high level in marking contests to me but he's not on the list. So I guess it's Walker. I'm not sold on Robbo but good on his dad.

McCarthy has played ok most of the time and he does lift a bit when the heat is on like yesterday . Could've kicked 2 in the last quarter but for that inexplicable non mark decision .It's his first full season and he'll be better next year. Charlie gets a lot of attention and does ok considering , needs to stay down and crumb If we're playing defensive into our forward line why on earth is he flying ?

The only reason to change players is if someone's performance isn't up to an acceptable standard and/or there are players not in the team who are likely to give better performances than what we've got.

So there are 5 question marks looming for the next selection meeting.
 

a mayes ing

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 1, 2013
8,315
6,103
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Didn’t Matho follow Robbo around last preseason and he hasn’t improved his ability to run out games to a satisfactory level.
It has improved, it is why he is still in the seniors. He just is inconsistent. Still 22 i thiink?

Sick of this 2 ruk setup. We are effectively 1 player down that every other team when McStay can do the job.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
34,984
28,118
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
It has improved, it is why he is still in the seniors. He just is inconsistent. Still 22 i thiink?

Sick of this 2 ruk setup. We are effectively 1 player down that every other team when McStay can do the job.
How much time does Matho play in the middle? He rests a lot up forward and on the bench. Even if he’s more fit it hasn’t lifted his output.
 

Ralphy2017

Draftee
Jul 16, 2017
12
21
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
This is a great point. Our forward line desperately needs a restructure. Nobody leads and everybody is trying to take pack marks.
Maybe try Walker again as a forward. Might be worth looking at payne preparing him to play back against GWS who are playing three talls. Not sure if at 19 .and a limited pre season he is ready, but need to consider playing a few of our younger players especially if top four finish is out of reach. In the 4Q yesterday Curnow outmarked witho and the only nearby supporting defenders were three smaller players.Walker arguably should have been the third tall yesterday due to Carlton’s tall forwards
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

3KZ is Football

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 17, 2008
14,277
14,329
In the grandstand at the Brunswick St. Oval
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fitzroy Football Club
Maybe try Walker again as a forward. Might be worth looking at payne preparing him to play back against GWS who are playing three talls. Not sure if at 19 .and a limited pre season he is ready, but need to consider playing a few of our younger players especially if top four finish is out of reach. In the 4Q yesterday Curnow outmarked witho and the only nearby supporting defenders were three smaller players.Walker arguably should have been the third tall yesterday due to Carlton’s tall forwards
Yep.
 

martinson

All Australian
Apr 4, 2015
782
933
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Aside from disecting individuals' performance the primary reasons we lost yesterday were not tagging Cripps effectively , no one to step up when Zorks went off losing all momentum , not helping out Neale when he was basically being blocked out of the game and poor selection in playing Archie and Cam
 

Strato

Debutant
Jul 7, 2017
78
72
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Maybe try Walker again as a forward. Might be worth looking at payne preparing him to play back against GWS who are playing three talls. Not sure if at 19 .and a limited pre season he is ready, but need to consider playing a few of our younger players especially if top four finish is out of reach. In the 4Q yesterday Curnow outmarked witho and the only nearby supporting defenders were three smaller players.Walker arguably should have been the third tall yesterday due to Carlton’s tall forwards
How did Payne go yesterday?
 

Tom14

Premiership Player
Oct 13, 2015
3,100
5,703
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Do people remember Walker playing forward? I get you find Hipwood and McStay frustrating but we really don't have better options. We need Big O back in the team mostly I think.

Honestly McStay has easily been our most consistent forward the last 6 weeks.
 

SonnyBoy1

Senior List
Mar 26, 2018
173
239
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Outs: Rayner, Robertson, Smith, Taylor
Ins: Keays, Hinge, BigO, Cutler (If he is not available bring in a fresh face, team is becoming predictable and stale)

Rayner needs a good month in reserves one of the worst games I've ever seen, dropped a few simples marks with no pressure, got so easily out marked by his opponent and shocking deserve making. Great pick 1
 
Last edited:

davemc_lions

Club Legend
Aug 21, 2013
1,088
792
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Everyone keeps saying Archie for Big O.. What about we try a game with 1 ruck.
Last 3 weeks we lost clearances double teaming them as Fagan says in the ruck, not getting first hands on to it and we loose a runner as well.
Our resting ruck not a great forward.

Can we just try something different apart from Dropping Walker against teams we should not.
If Fagan does not think Walker is working bring Payne in we go too short.

Modern footy is all about running forward and back. Having a deep midfield.
A lot of teams play a ruck like Martin who can contribute around the ground and pinch hitters.
 

brutus76

Premium Platinum
Jul 26, 2016
1,184
1,616
Brisbane (VIC until 21, SA until mid 30's)
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
LFC, NFL Redskins, Brisbane Lions
Rayner needs to work on his conditioning and get leather poisoning.

Berry and Bailey cant come back quick enough.

Even though Cutler's finishing isnt great he hard and tough at the contest and a good tackler.

Archie should be one of those "in case of emergency break glass" types. Last resort only.

Keaysy deserves a good run of games as does Allison.

McSpray needs a hypnotist to fix the yips

Wouldnt mind seeing Ballenden get a go as forward/second ruck.
 

Shaq attack

Team Captain
Oct 6, 2011
595
523
Melbourne
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I’m starting to think Davies-Uniacke would have been the better choice for us at #1. Seems to be developing pretty well at North. Rayner has brick hands and constantly fumbles plus he is about 7-8kg too heavy to impact enough contests.

As for changes, I’d lake to swing the axe but realistically I think it will be something like:

Out: Archie, Robertson, Allison
In: Walker, Cutler, Big O

Would like to see Rayner dropped but they seem intent on giving him a walk up start each week. We really need to work on our leading patterns and lowering the eyes kicking inside 50. We have been getting destroyed on the rebound most weeks.

Lastly, our tackling has been pretty poor. Apart from a few highlight-worthy crunching tackles, we sure missed a lot yesterday.

Really disappointed in the result and can’t help but feel this undoes a lot of the hard work we have done to build credibility this season.
 

Tom14

Premiership Player
Oct 13, 2015
3,100
5,703
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I’m starting to think Davies-Uniacke would have been the better choice for us at #1. Seems to be developing pretty well at North. Rayner has brick hands and constantly fumbles plus he is about 7-8kg too heavy to impact enough contests.

As for changes, I’d lake to swing the axe but realistically I think it will be something like:

Out: Archie, Robertson, Allison
In: Walker, Cutler, Big O

Would like to see Rayner dropped but they seem intent on giving him a walk up start each week. We really need to work on our leading patterns and lowering the eyes kicking inside 50. We have been getting destroyed on the rebound most weeks.

Lastly, our tackling has been pretty poor. Apart from a few highlight-worthy crunching tackles, we sure missed a lot yesterday.

Really disappointed in the result and can’t help but feel this undoes a lot of the hard work we have done to build credibility this season.
Until a month ago LDU was being talked about as a giant disappointment for Norf. Even then, he's had a month of ok to above average games. I get Rayner is well out of form and is the new whipping boy, but come on.

If you want to play re-rank the 2017 draft then Naughton is the one to go with and I'm sure people will bring him up a lot in the next 18 months.
 

Nunez

Premium Platinum
Aug 9, 2013
12,299
20,366
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
God the **** said about Rayner on here is unbearable. Fair enough critique him on on things he needs to improve on but keep **** like "he has brick hands, is overweight, playing him is like playing a man down" etc out of this board. We're literally a group of adults talking about a 19 year old kid. It's honestly embarassing.
 

jackess

Hall of Famer
Aug 10, 2005
34,984
28,118
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Until a month ago LDU was being talked about as a giant disappointment for Norf. Even then, he's had a month of ok to above average games. I get Rayner is well out of form and is the new whipping boy, but come on.

If you want to play re-rank the 2017 draft then Naughton is the one to go with and I'm sure people will bring him up a lot in the next 18 months.
Even Dow, Brayshaw and Cerra have been pretty poor this year as well. We just have to remember that it’s not always a linear progression for these kids.

Actually I remember seeing calls for Stephenson to be dropped on the Carlton board as well.
 

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2015
15,839
28,882
Omnipresent.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
Rayner needs to work on his conditioning and get leather poisoning.

Berry and Bailey cant come back quick enough.

Even though Cutler's finishing isnt great he hard and tough at the contest and a good tackler.

Archie should be one of those "in case of emergency break glass" types. Last resort only.

Keaysy deserves a good run of games as does Allison.

McSpray needs a hypnotist to fix the yips

Wouldnt mind seeing Ballenden get a go as forward/second ruck.
Ummm, no.
 

bungalow_bill

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 11, 2010
5,111
4,576
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I agree with Dylan12. So you want him in the seniors every week for the next 2-3years. At the moment he would not not be getting a game in any other AFL side. Yes, the boy has shown some potential in the past but this season nothing. If we continue to play players that are not performing then we will still end up where we have been for the last decade. I don't care what position he plays and whatever stats he gets during a game but just watching him he is totally out of form and no confidence. To me the Coaches are not doing any favours by playing him in the seniors at the moment. There are some good kids in the reserves that need a chance. They cannot be any worse than him. I know I am hard but to achieve success you have to be ruthless with all players that don't perform - does not matter who you are. The Club is always bigger than any individual. Just look at how Walsh is performing compared to our No 1 pick.
Walsh is a mid fielder though who tend to be ready to go types. McGrath had a great first season and won the rising star - McCluggage started slower but is now comfortably the better player. I'm fairly confident Rayner will overtake Walsh in a few years. I don't agree with playing Rayner every single game though, a rest (not NEALF) every now and then would be beneficial at this stage of his development
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom