Changes vs Adelaide

[Conan Troutman]

But Kent didn't do much (if anything) in the VFL 2 weeks ago and he somehow still got the call up. What Bomber says means little IMHO. lol

Yeah true - good call

Guess it was the lesser of two evils though - Kent or Charlie

 

[chapmanmagic35]

My point though, is that this club owes no one anything, especially spots on the list/team.

I'm appreciative of what he brings to the team, for what he brings in his preparedness to run, carry, and break the lines is arguably the best at the club, both running forward with the ball, and defensively (Tenace take note). I don't think anyone can quesiton his attitude everytime he takes to the field, nor can they question his commitment. But he is not a smart footballer, and makes subsequent poor decisions, topped off with his poor disposal and inability to sucessfully guard opposition small forwards on a regular basis (though the latter I'd argue is more the coaching staff's fault than his).

He is 25, and someone I'd argue has 'topped off' as far as reaching his footballing potential goes. He won't get much better, and as it stands, he's probably one of a few constantly fighting for the 21st and 22nd spots on the team. So yes, if the situation arose, I wouldn't hesitate to offload him - he certainly isn't untouchable. Perhaps it might be looked at as being morally wrong, considering his unfortunate circumstances, but this club cannot afford to "reserve" places for guys on the proviso that we "owe" them one, for we quite simply do not.

A very, very good post.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

I cannot believe this about the Wojac.

He has had a bloody knee reco ffs, he'll be much better towards the end of the year and next year.

Where as players like Kent have no excuses for being pathetic.

Your point about him having a knee re-co is invalid because these were glaring problems before the knee injury.

He has been at the club since 1998 and it is still his downfall. Why do you think Spriggs got traded? David Clarke? They were all good blokes like Wojcinski, all great clubmen like Wojcinski, and all very athletic like Wojcinski.

But all three aren't good footballers.

 

[Rosella]

Sounds good, except I would probably omit Wojcinski before Callan...

Just watching the replay, Callan was very lucky Farmer kicked so badly - he was outpointed a lot.

 

[Ricketts]

IMO Ricco has earnt his spot in the side. His played almost 300 games with us!!! His talent shouldn't be wasted in the VFL. He helps the cats so much even when he is only on the ground for a short amount of time. Unfortunately I don't think he will reach 300 games. I wouldn't be suprised if he comes back in to the snr team and plays 1 game and retires. I'm not sure how much more his body can take. His an awsome player and I LOVE watching him, his so classy it's amazing. I wish he could teach some of the younger kids how to kick!

Yeah he's earned his spot, definately, but i can't see a man of his age providing much if anything at all coming straight back in the side. Has to be VFL for me aswell.

 

[Copernicus]

I shouldn't think we need too many changes, though I would like to see KK go back to the reserves or else stay on the flanks and work his arse off to get the ball to forwards who are going to use the opportunities better than he ever has. Harley in is obvious provided he is 100% - I imagine he will be after the break.

I also think we should leave Callan in - it doesn't help his development to shuffle back and forth between the ones and twos. Ricco should get some match fitness in the magoos - yeah, he's great clubman, good skills and all that but we can't afford players who aren't going to be able to compete against Adelaide.

 

[Sean Sheep]

My point about thhe Wojo issue Geecat is that before he did his knee, these were areas of his game that had been improving vastly, and the more game time he gets, the better these skills will become.

I remember for the first few years of his career seeing his poor decision making, and seeing him consistently run down as he tried to take on too many players, but I also remember seeing these areas improve dramatically before he did his knee.

Don't get me wrong, I rate Callan too, and would like to see him stay in the side as a developing player, but at this stage Wojo just adds that extra drive and burst of speed out of the backline.

 

[thejester]

Just watching the replay, Callan was very lucky Farmer kicked so badly - he was outpointed a lot.

Although I agree he probably will go back to the twos I'd strongly disagree that Farmer really outplayed him. Farmer is fast and the fact that Callan was within centimetres of spoiling him both those times in the 3rd would, I'd argue, go a lot towards proving Callan's ability rather than detracting from it.

 

[darren forssman]

My point though, is that this club owes no one anything, especially spots on the list/team.

I'm appreciative of what he brings to the team, for what he brings in his preparedness to run, carry, and break the lines is arguably the best at the club, both running forward with the ball, and defensively (Tenace take note). I don't think anyone can quesiton his attitude everytime he takes to the field, nor can they question his commitment. But he is not a smart footballer, and makes subsequent poor decisions, topped off with his poor disposal and inability to sucessfully guard opposition small forwards on a regular basis (though the latter I'd argue is more the coaching staff's fault than his).

He is 25, and someone I'd argue has 'topped off' as far as reaching his footballing potential goes. He won't get much better, and as it stands, he's probably one of a few constantly fighting for the 21st and 22nd spots on the team. So yes, if the situation arose, I wouldn't hesitate to offload him - he certainly isn't untouchable. Perhaps it might be looked at as being morally wrong, considering his unfortunate circumstances, but this club cannot afford to "reserve" places for guys on the proviso that we "owe" them one, for we quite simply do not.

memo to cm35, this is how you structure an argument and use facts to back up your opinion.

 

[darren forssman]

Although I agree he probably will go back to the twos I'd strongly disagree that Farmer really outplayed him. Farmer is fast and the fact that Callan was within centimetres of spoiling him both those times in the 3rd would, I'd argue, go a lot towards proving Callan's ability rather than detracting from it.

he wasnt beaten by quickness but in a few one on one contests by farmer.

 

[darren forssman]

My point though, is that this club owes no one anything, especially spots on the list/team.

question: what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman, would we owe them anything then?

i think having sanderson play the last 3-4 seasons has stifled the emergence of any small defenders. i personally think sando wasnt a great defender whose disposal is very ling like. cue hate posts now.

 

[Cattery]

I'd keep playing Wojo... I think he is getting better every time he plays, and his form, while not setting the world on fire, has been good considering the injury he is coming back from.

Its great seeing that old dash out of defense! He just needs to work on his disposal again (which I think was getting alot better before he did his knee). I think as his confidence grows, we are also going to see more of his aggression and toughness come back into his game.

As you can probably tell, I really rate him and can't believe some of the talk about trading him that has been going on around here (he wrecked his knee serving our club for gods sake!) We owe him every opportunity to get back to top form.

Have to agree 100% with that, probably his best game for the season, despite a few mistakes, and he'll keep improving with each game he gets under his belt.
Actually a little surprised to see how quickly some seem to be writing him off, was playing his best ever footy before wrecking his knee, and if he can recapture that form [ and there were signs on Saturday that he's not far off ] he will be a tremendous asset again.

For the Adelaide game, I'd go with Harley and Rooke to replace Spencer and Callan.

 

[kriso182]

Lock it in:

Harley for Spencer
J.Rooke for Kingsley
D.Johnson for Callan

99% sure this will happen

 

[cats2rise]

Are they just your thoughts or inside info?

 

[GeeCat]

question: what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman, would we owe them anything then?

In terms of retaining a place on the player list, if they were our best player for the years gone by, then my guess is they wouldn't be deemed tradeable in the first place.

If the player is good enough, he'll warrant his own place on this list. So effectively, no we wouldn't 'owe' them a spot, as some here are suggesting we do with Woj. He was tradeable before the knee injury, and he's tradeable now - I don't know why so many refuse to acknowledge that.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

question: what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman, would we owe them anything then?

i think having sanderson play the last 3-4 seasons has stifled the emergence of any small defenders. i personally think sando wasnt a great defender whose disposal is very ling like. cue hate posts now.

A bit harsh...Sanderson was a very good defender IMO, a Carji Greeves Medallist who was courageous and disciplined.

I'm guessing by 'Ling like', you mean quite short? I thought he was the opposite, especially from the kick-ins.

He generally went long.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

In terms of retaining a place on the player list, if they were our best player for the years gone by, then my guess is they wouldn't be deemed tradeable in the first place.

If the player is good enough, he'll warrant his own place on this list. So effectively, no we wouldn't 'owe' them a spot, as some here are suggesting we do with Woj. He was tradeable before the knee injury, and he's tradeable now - I don't know why so many refuse to acknowledge that.

Agree wholeheartedly...

 

[patdman]

question: what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman, would we owe them anything then?

i think having sanderson play the last 3-4 seasons has stifled the emergence of any small defenders. i personally think sando wasnt a great defender whose disposal is very ling like. cue hate posts now.

Sando had good disposal IMO.
I've also thought that Callan was his perfect replacement for a long time now.
Keep Callan in.

 

[darren forssman]

Sando had good disposal IMO.
I've also thought that Callan was his perfect replacement for a long time now.
Keep Callan in.

i distinctly remember callan having some woja moments of running through the middle and then not knowing what to do and getting caught.

lynch him i say!!!

 

[thehoff]

question: what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman, would we owe them anything then?

i think having sanderson play the last 3-4 seasons has stifled the emergence of any small defenders. i personally think sando wasnt a great defender whose disposal is very ling like. cue hate posts now.

That is a very harsh call. Sando had Brown hair. Be fair to Brenton.

He's rather be dead than red.

P.S. I rate Callan. Give the kid a go. I mean, what type of person calls for a players head after seeing him play AFL twice?

 

[darren forssman]

A bit harsh...Sanderson was a very good defender IMO, a Carji Greeves Medallist who was courageous and disciplined.

i saw a couple games on foxtel and i can see that he may have been slade's mentor with the amount of undisciplined play he displayed. he was not a great defender, there is a reason two teams didnt keep him on their list.

much like yourself with woja, i used to cringe every time he was in a contest or kicking those high floaters.

did he beat out kilpatrick for that medal??

 

[darren forssman]

In terms of retaining a place on the player list, if they were our best player for the years gone by, then my guess is they wouldn't be deemed tradeable in the first place.

anyone is basically tradeable bar about 4-5 players.

if hawthorn offered hodge for ling and something else you telling me you would say no.

 

[GeeCat]

anyone is basically tradeable bar about 4-5 players.

if hawthorn offered hodge for ling and something else you telling me you would say no.

Getting very hypothetical now and abit off tangent to the original point, but I think we all know the answer to that question.

Drawing back to the original point though, some here are contending that Woj, due to his injury, is "owed" a certain number of seasons to get back on track, to which I disagree. His status does not make him any less tradeable than he would be if he were injury-free (of course, whether or not other clubs are willing to gamble on the recovery of his knee is another matter altogether).

You asked, "what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman?" Okay, let's get hypothetical again: if Matty Scarlett injured his knee (touch wood), wouldn't it be fair to assume that, regardless of that injury (assuming recovery is all good and well), Matty retains his place on the list not because we "owe" him that spot as such, but his 'quality', for lack of words, demands/warrants that spot. Take it back to Woj; if the club decides that he is still a required player, he'll retain his place. Simple, really. But many here are adamant that we "owe" him a place on this list, to which we don't.

Bottomline: he was tradeable before the knee, and he's tradeable now. Whether or not he is shopped around, traded or delisted is irrelevent, the underlying factor is that we can't afford to "reserve" a place for him on the proviso that we "owe" it to him.

 

[darren forssman]

Getting very hypothetical now and abit off tangent to the original point, but I think we all know the answer to that question.

Drawing back to the original point though, some here are contending that Woj, due to his injury, is "owed" a certain number of seasons to get back on track, to which I disagree. His status does not make him any less tradeable than he would be if he were injury-free (of course, whether or not other clubs are willing to gamble on the recovery of his knee is another matter altogether).

You asked, "what if they were our best player for the last 4 years and a great clubman?" Okay, let's get hypothetical again: if Matty Scarlett injured his knee (touch wood), wouldn't it be fair to assume that, regardless of that injury (assuming recovery is all good and well), Matty retains his place on the list not because we "owe" him that spot as such, but his 'quality', for lack of words, demands/warrants that spot. Take it back to Woj; if the club decides that he is still a required player, he'll retain his place. Simple, really. But many here are adamant that we "owe" him a place on this list, to which we don't.

Bottomline: he was tradeable before the knee, and he's tradeable now. Whether or not he is shopped around, traded or delisted is irrelevent, the underlying factor is that we can't afford to "reserve" a place for him on the proviso that we "owe" it to him.

i agree, i stated there are 4-5 players who are untradeable and that we owe no player a spot on the list, if they are ling or woja. i used ling as an example as he is a sacred cow on this site and people keep going on about his last four years.

 

[TheTimeCometh]

who said anything bout owing anyone a place?

cm35 seems to get excited when agreeing with the suggestion woja aint safe when, as has been discussed, a fair proportion on the list are tradeable as well.