Hot Topic Chicken Little thread - 2024 edition

[Gethelred]

Come one, come all, ye chicks and chickens alike!

It's time for a rant thread!

Let us find the darkness within, together!

 

[Gethelred]

We have us an Opinions thread, we have us a List Management thread (one could argue we have eleven list management threads) and we have a series of Rumour threads.

Now, let's have us a thread which plumbs the depths, where the truly despairing reside.

Come forth, ye chicken littles for 2023!

 

[ferrisb]

I'm pissed off with our start to the year as I was planning a holiday in September.




*if this post turns out to be a curse I will ban myself from BF

 

[HarryFlashman]

We have arguably the two best forwards, midfielder & full back - we should be better
Our clearance work hasn’t worked since early last season, our transition is woeful, accountability in the back line is non existent at times (loose players float in and score un pressured) & our general skills are poor more often than not.
If it wasn’t for a few players doing something extraordinary at times we would be a bog stock avg side.
Our conversion rate from set shots is pretty insipid most of the time.
Every game we also seem to be carrying players (they rotate the roll) who can be described at best as “not interested”. You don’t look at our side and say “they are building/the game plan is solid/they know what they are doing”. I haven’t even touched on our predictability & ineffectiveness of our kick ins or the fact we seem to s**t the bed when some control & composure is needed at clutch moments. But hey, we are winning, so it’s all good

 

[De Iulio2Wiggins]

Ooooh this'll be fun. Okay, even with all the draft picks and trading our list is still paper thin. Could easily move on a dozen of the mercurials and perpetually injured at the end of the year and replace them with solid contributors who play >20 games a year (drumroll, Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

), except you can't turn a list over like that, especially one that's meant to be in the window ...

We are 1-2 injuries to key players away from being well back in the pack, which is okay except we HAVE to make significant inroads into the 8 to be able to attract the type of wantaways/free agents that are going to help plug those gaping holes in our list.

 

[BlueTongue]

Ooooh this'll be fun. Okay, even with all the draft picks and trading our list is still paper thin. Could easily move on a dozen of the mercurials and perpetually injured at the end of the year and replace them with solid contributors who play >20 games a year (drumroll, Lewis Young), except you can't turn a list over like that, especially one that's meant to be in the window ...

We are 1-2 injuries to key players away from being well back in the pack, which is okay except we HAVE to make significant inroads into the 8 to be able to attract the type of wantaways/free agents that are going to help plug those gaping holes in our list.

Very hard to argue with this. Especially the list.

 

[Arr0w]

Does this thread come with fries?

Love a good analysis rant, where we pick apart every aspect of the crap gameplan, poor coaching, player deficiencies, substandard development, etc

What I love more, is reading detailed strategy, or at the very least suggestions, on how to rectify the above

What sauces are on offer for my fries?

 

[Gethelred]

Could easily move on a dozen of the mercurials and perpetually injured at the end of the year and replace them with solid contributors who play >20 games a year (drumroll, Lewis Young), except you can't turn a list over like that, especially one that's meant to be in the window ...

Could argue that you - the general 'you' - could absolutely turn a list over like that, because Hawthorn could and did between 2004-2007, Melbourne did post 2013, Richmond did post 2013, Collingwood have perrenially turned over their list essentially since 2000, ditto Geelong since 2007, and Sydney post 2008.

But we - Carlton - cannot turn a list over like that, because we are completely unwilling to back our development systems, our recruitment or our coaching to that degree. One could say our history with these things imbues one with a skepticism that is entirely reasonable, but it's not terribly healthy.

We are 1-2 injuries to key players away from being well back in the pack, which is okay except we HAVE to make significant inroads into the 8 to be able to attract the type of wantaways/free agents that are going to help plug those gaping holes in our list.

Eh.

We're trapped somewhat by salary cap due to poor returns from Williams, Martin, McGovern during a time of salary cap expansion, with Charlie, McKay, Walsh, Cripps re-signing whilst under the same period. It's a problem, but the problem is salvageable given that period is almost over. McGovern's contract is done at the conclusion of this year, Martin's contract is tapering off and so is Williams; we've not lost anyone we want to keep, and last off season was a reset in miniature given we got Binns, Hollands, Cowan and Acres (all wings, all high possession outside/inside options with defensive credentials). Last year was also a reset in miniature; Durdin and Motlop in for Betts.

LOB will either improve or be delisted. Dow will either be retained as a VFL player, or will be delisted and picked up elsewhere. Fisher will either be traded - as he's got currency - or he will be surpassed.

An awful lot of people forget that in 2017, people wrote off the Tigers pretty early due to only just getting over the line against us and losing 3 close games in a row; 'Richmondy' they called it. But the key here was afterwards, they found a way to win and kept winning; it was fighting through poor form to victory despite no-one being able to make sense of why or how you're winning. We look s**t now, but we need to find a way to win and keep winning. That's it, really.

 

[Malifice]

Ooooh this'll be fun. Okay, even with all the draft picks and trading our list is still paper thin.

Posted about this a few years ago, but with the state our list was in when we started the rebuild, we basically needed to nail nearly every draft pick for several years (which is next to impossible).

SPS and Stocker out the door for nothing (two wasted 1st rounders) and Dow and LOB on very shaky grounds at the moment as well (possibly 2 more) and we still havent seen much of Brodie Kemp.

We nailed the 2015 draft but look to have blown several (2-5) 1st rounders since and haven't landed any late gems other than De Koning in 2017.

 

[BlueTongue]

Could argue that you - the general 'you' - could absolutely turn a list over like that, because Hawthorn could and did between 2004-2007, Melbourne did post 2013, Richmond did post 2013, Collingwood have perrenially turned over their list essentially since 2000, ditto Geelong since 2007, and Sydney post 2008.

But we - Carlton - cannot turn a list over like that, because we are completely unwilling to back our development systems, our recruitment or our coaching to that degree. One could say our history with these things imbues one with a skepticism that is entirely reasonable, but it's not terribly healthy.

Eh.

We're trapped somewhat by salary cap due to poor returns from Williams, Martin, McGovern during a time of salary cap expansion, with Charlie, McKay, Walsh, Cripps re-signing whilst under the same period. It's a problem, but the problem is salvageable given that period is almost over. McGovern's contract is done at the conclusion of this year, Martin's contract is tapering off and so is Williams; we've not lost anyone we want to keep, and last off season was a reset in miniature given we got Binns, Hollands, Cowan and Acres (all wings, all high possession outside/inside options with defensive credentials). Last year was also a reset in miniature; Durdin and Motlop in for Betts.

LOB will either improve or be delisted. Dow will either be retained as a VFL player, or will be delisted and picked up elsewhere. Fisher will either be traded - as he's got currency - or he will be surpassed.

An awful lot of people forget that in 2017, people wrote of the Tigers pretty early due to only just getting over the line against us and losing 3 close games in a row; 'Richmondy' they called it. But the key here was afterwards, they found a way to win and kept winning; it was fighting through poor form to victory despite no-one being able to make sense of why or how you're winning. We look s**t now, but we need to find a way to win and keep winning. That's it, really.

I know a Glass half full comment doesn't belong in this thread - BUT - I think Nick Austin is the best list manager we've had since 1995.
Like all good list managers - he is getting his draft picks right, identifying the 'holes' in our list and targeting players that are get-able from other teams who fit the need.

SOS - is guilty of opening up the cheque book and throwing big money at names. BUT, what I do think he did well, was to turn our list over very quickly (indeed 'fillet' springs to mind), using his knowledge of the GWS list, and getting us started in the right direction. Yes we have a few misses in that bunch, but he didn't really have a lot to work with beforehand anyway.

We have a good starting 22, but not a lot of Depth.
It's time to bite the bullet, trade those are eternal fringe players with currency, and cut our loses at the busts.

 

[JustaBattler]

We have arguably the two best forwards, midfielder & full back - we should be better

We have two 'of' the best forwards - but 4 average others when it comes to kicking goals - but I will settle for decent defensive pressure from them - Jack/Durdin/Motlop and even Owies deliver on that. What has been pointed out over and over again is the lack of polish and alternative avenues to goal. We DO have 'one of' the very best mids in Cripps and one of the other best transitional runners in Walsh ( who hasn't played yet this year) - Weitering isn't the best full-back in the competition btw ..

Our clearance work hasn’t worked since early last season,

Wrong

our transition is woeful,

Yes - but Walsh is a big out regarding first receiver running power - hence the focus on fixing the wings at least which has been vastly improved with Acres and Hollands...with Hewett and Kennedy not 100% - Cerra has been relegated to hard ball gets diminishing his run significantly and ocherty because of William's injury has only minor rotational invovlements - good to see Durdin and Motlop getting some time between the arcs - much better at it than Fisher

accountability in the back line is non existent at times (loose players float in and score un pressured)

That isn't a backline issue though is it? a loose player making their way in is someone between the arcs not manning up ...I wont mention who they typically are that let their man loose....

& our general skills are poor more often than not.

Kicking skills are ordinary at times and average mostly - hence the long bombs for territory - that IS an issue

If it wasn’t for a few players doing something extraordinary at times we would be a bog stock avg side.

Same can be said for every side...take Pendelbury Sidebottom and Elliott out of Collingwood and see how far Naicos gets..or Cameron out of Geellong last week - we win by 5 goals easily..

Our conversion rate from set shots is pretty insipid most of the time.

Yep - that is an issue - Harry is currently joining teh 'other 4' as flaky as well - practise and opportunity will sort that out- as will better players stepping in...

Every game we also seem to be carrying players (they rotate the roll) who can be described at best as “not interested”.

disagree name a "not interested" player who gets a game?

You don’t look at our side and say “they are building/the game plan is solid/they know what they are doing”.

No one sees Carlton as a bunch of soft cawks anymore mate- that story ended with Voss's arrival and bringing in Hewett/Cerra and finally playing Kennedy who was busy learning running patterns in VFL under the previous two nuffies who were coaching

I haven’t even touched on our predictability & ineffectiveness of our kick ins or the fact we seem to s**t the bed when some control & composure is needed at clutch moments.

I think that meme was put to bed last week and this week ...

But hey, we are winning, so it’s all good

Winning ugly is progression -I'll take the 4 points - fanks..

You dont have a mortgage on understanding the missing elements of the starting 22 - or the knowledge that we lack enough developed players to take the list to 28+ good players - so why pretend that you are a lone voice in pointing out what needs to be improved?

However - the Club does understand this - repeatedly stated last year that the list was far from complete.....looking at the lack of depth in midfield and KPP on the list by just watching VFL - sees Carlton needing more- just like every other club out there...the good news is that injuries aside- the platform to build and grow from here for a sustainable relevancy is there. Which is a huge improvement from where the Club was at under previous regimes.

 

[HarryFlashman]

We have two 'of' the best forwards - but 4 average others when it comes to kicking goals - but I will settle for decent defensive pressure from them - Jack/Durdin/Motlop and even Owies deliver on that. What has been pointed out over and over again is the lack of polish and alternative avenues to goal. We DO have 'one of' the very best mids in Cripps and one of the other best transitional runners in Walsh ( who hasn't played yet this year) - Weitering isn't the best full-back in the competition btw ..


Wrong

Yes - but Walsh is a big out regarding first receiver running power - hence the focus on fixing the wings at least which has been vastly improved with Acres and Hollands...with Hewett and Kennedy not 100% - Cerra has been relegated to hard ball gets diminishing his run significantly and ocherty because of William's injury has only minor rotational invovlements - good to see Durdin and Motlop getting some time between the arcs - much better at it than Fisher


That isn't a backline issue though is it? a loose player making their way in is someone between the arcs not manning up ...I wont mention who they typically are that let their man loose....


Kicking skills are ordinary at times and average mostly - hence the long bombs for territory - that IS an issue


Same can be said for every side...take Pendelbury Sidebottom and Elliott out of Collingwood and see how far Naicos gets..or Cameron out of Geellong last week - we win by 5 goals easily..


Yep - that is an issue - Harry is currently joining teh 'other 4' as flaky as well - practise and opportunity will sort that out- as will better players stepping in...


disagree name a "not interested" player who gets a game?

No one sees Carlton as a bunch of soft cawks anymore mate- that story ended with Voss's arrival and bringing in Hewett/Cerra and finally playing Kennedy who was busy learning running patterns in VFL under the previous two nuffies who were coaching


I think that meme was put to bed last week and this week ...


Winning ugly is progression -I'll take the 4 points - fanks..

You dont have a mortgage on understanding the missing elements of the starting 22 - or the knowledge that we lack enough developed players to take the list to 28+ good players - so why pretend that you are a lone voice in pointing out what needs to be improved?

However - the Club does understand this - repeatedly stated last year that the list was far from complete.....looking at the lack of depth in midfield and KPP on the list by just watching VFL - sees Carlton needing more- just like every other club out there...the good news is that injuries aside- the platform to build and grow from here for a sustainable relevancy is there. Which is a huge improvement from where the Club was at under previous regimes.

Lol- u pick apart a rant & pretty much just make s**t up.
lots of words (or just one) doesn’t convince me that we should settle for what we are dishing up.
Might have well just posted “trust the club”

 

[JustaBattler]

Lol- u pick apart a rant & pretty much just make s**t up.
lots of words (or just one) doesn’t convince me that we should settle for what we are dishing up.
Might have well just posted “trust the club”

I tried to address each and every one of your jumbled mumbles champ. Not my fault you posted a load of drivel.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I tried to address each and every one of your jumbled mumbles champ. Not my fault you posted a load of drivel.

You do realize this thread was purposely created & titled “chicken little”?
If u can’t see that our transition & clearances have dropped & are not anywhere near top tier I have NFI how u view the games.
Our kick ins are shite- how many times do we ever go coast to coast (like GWS did against us multiple times) & when did we fix our issues with pressure? Tigers game champ?

 

[El Topo]

Most of the players drafted under Bolton are broken in the same way as the Melbourne players taken under Bailey/Neeld. We need accept this and stop waiting in hope for these guys to arrive.

 

[Accidental genius]

Most of the players drafted under Bolton are broken in the same way as the Melbourne players taken under Bailey/Neeld. We need accept this and stop waiting in hope for these guys to arrive.

got me interested in knowing who exactly we picked up during those years....

Nailed Walsh (standout)
TDK still could be anything,
Fisher (hot/cold - needs more consistency),
Kemp/honey (could be ok/good - wait and see)
Dow/lob/philp (not looking too crash hot atm - wait and see)


Liam Stocker looking ok at saints so far.
SPS no idea where he is at.


2016:

Sam Petrevski-Seton (6), Zac Fisher (27), Harrison Macreadie (47), Cameron Polson (59), Tom Williamson (61), Patrick Kerr (65), Kym Lebois (Rookie)

2017:

Paddy Dow (3), Lochie O’Brien (10), Tom De Koning (30), Angus Schumacher (70)

2018:

Sam Walsh (1), Liam Stocker (19), Finbar O’Dwyer (66), Ben Silvagni (70), Hugh Goddard (rookie), Tomas Bugg (rookie)

2019:

Brodie Kemp (17), Sam Philp (20), Sam Ramsay (47), Josh Honey (Rookie), Fraser Phillips (Rookie),

 

[JustaBattler]

You do realize this thread was purposely created & titled “chicken little”?
If u can’t see that our transition & clearances have dropped & are not anywhere near top tier I have NFI how u view the games.
Our kick ins are shite- how many times do we ever go coast to coast (like GWS did against us multiple times) & when did we fix our issues with pressure? Tigers game champ?

...

Yes - but Walsh is a big out regarding first receiver running power ..with Hewett and Kennedy not 100% - Cerra has been relegated to hard ball gets diminishing his run significantly and Docherty because of William's injury has only minor rotational invovlements - good to see Durdin and Motlop getting some time between the arcs - much better at it than Fisher

I'll leave this thread to those who much wiser than me - Carry on.

 

[Bluella]

I'm pissed off with our start to the year as I was planning a holiday in September.




*if this post turns out to be a curse I will ban myself from BF

I'm pretty sure I'll be travelling for work in the first week of finals

 

[Wickzki]

Nic Newman

24

Nic Newman

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

13.7

5star

HB

5.9

4star

M

5.5

5star

T

3.3

5star

MG

400.8

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

MG

157.0

3star

D

22.4

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

9.6

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

3.6

5star

MG

387.8

5star

is such a spud....

That is all.

/s

 

[ferrisb]

Nic Newman is such a spud....

That is all.

/s

 

[Arr0w]

I'll leave this thread to those who much wiser than me - Carry on.

And absolutely no strategy as to how to rectify all of our crap areas, all of them

But apparently, playing Dow is the number 1 priority to right this ship

 

[David Sylvian]

I DEMAND a more in depth/detailed procedure based injury report IMMEDIATELY
How dare players get injuries WHY. US. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. Sack the medical/high performance team.
Why have we recruited injury prone players? WHY WHY WHY?

 

[Stamos]

I DEMAND a more in depth/detailed procedure based injury report IMMEDIATELY
How dare players get injuries WHY. US. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. Sack the medical/high performance team.
Why have we recruited injury prone players? WHY WHY WHY?

You have to wait for Russell to fly back from Perth.

Eagles lose SEVEN players to injury in brutal Derby

Adam Simpson praises his undermanned side for pushing Fremantle to the edge at Optus Stadium

www.afl.com.au

 

[Wickzki]

I DEMAND a more in depth/detailed procedure based injury report IMMEDIATELY
How dare players get injuries WHY. US. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. Sack the medical/high performance team.
Why have we recruited injury prone players? WHY WHY WHY?

We'd get a more detailed medical report but the medical typist got carpal tunnel thanks to the training methods of Andy Russell.

Expected to be back in two weeks...

 

[Aphrodite]

You have to wait for Russell to fly back from Perth.

Eagles lose SEVEN players to injury in brutal Derby

Adam Simpson praises his undermanned side for pushing Fremantle to the edge at Optus Stadium

www.afl.com.au

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

Tracking ok except for bad kicking for goal, and the most aggravating thing of all, broken tackles and not enough pressure.