Coach Chris Fagan - where is the scrutiny

[PieLebo87]

I think it was mentioned in another thread how it may’ve been someone like Hinkley who has a better winning % than Hardwick? Or something like that?

Also, how there’s a few AFL coaches with better winning percentages than Clarko but no flags?

I kind of understand now. There’s coaches like Hinkley, Lyon and now Fagan who are good coaches but just short of what’s required as senior coaches when it comes to September.

To a lesser extent, even someone like Scott who has close to (if not more than) a winning percentage of 70% yet a finals record in the 40%-50% range. Won a flag for the Cats in his first year in the tail end of that dynasty team, but a perennial loser in September ever since for a team that has consistently finished top 4.

 

[Rowan18]

Team just isn't that good honestly. Hard to criticise the coach when he took us from 15th to second in one season. Actually think he has done well to squeeze out a couple of good seasons with the current list.

He's been good enough to get you guys up the ladder but just can't get the team to perform in the close ones. 1 finals win from 6 finals (due to finishing top 4 in three seasons) is pretty bad.

 

[Rowan18]

Didn’t happen in 2018, 2017, 2016 or 2015 off a quick research.

West Coast played Collingwood in the 2018 QF and then again in the GF. That's the closest I can think of.

 

[master bate]

2019 they were way way ahead of schedule. Nowhere near ready to win finals

2020 was a real chance. But still ahead of schedule and beaten by a strong side

2021…lost to a good dogs side in a game they should’ve won.

This year: talls aren’t in great touch, especially with Adams out.

Midfield is still passing the torch from the older guys to McCluggage, Bailey, Rayner.

Worth asking some questions about their full ground defending and game plan though.

Less fire Fagan and more let’s change up the assistants.

 

[kaiserchief13]

2019 they were way way ahead of schedule. Nowhere near ready to win finals

2020 was a real chance. But still ahead of schedule and beaten by a strong side

2021…lost to a good dogs side in a game they should’ve won.

This year: talls aren’t in great touch, especially with Adams out.

Midfield is still passing the torch from the older guys to McCluggage, Bailey, Rayner.

Worth asking some questions about their full ground defending and game plan though.

Less fire Fagan and more let’s change up the assistants.

So the head coach, the one (likely) paid more than double all the other assistants is not at fault but the coaches paid much less are? How about get rid of Fagan and promote the best assistant to head coach?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Think his a bit of a dud. Great administrative rally everyone love and hugs sort of guy that lifts club spirits and is great for young kids to develop, but it seems to end there. Poor tactician and strategist is the problem.

The team has alot of talent and early 1st/2nd rnd draft picks that were going to come on regardless of fagan lets be honest, i dont think he has performed miracles on that front that other coaches couldnt have.

Ideal situation would be fagan stepping aside into an administrative role and a new senior coach coming in who is stronger strategically to deal with the side

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Joe Daniher.

The great white disappointment.

Would still be Essendons best player

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

Not really his fault his midfield is ultimately undersized and soft

 

[benfica]

fagan exposed himself when he made excuse after excuse when the lions had players out with covid and they lost .......no accountability just wanted to blame covid

 

[The Casey Cat]

A very mentally soft team

Getting a bit that way yes. Isn't all that often they win a game I don't think they will. And at the same time in some games you think they will win or go close they get smacked. Something not quite right.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Not really his fault his midfield is ultimately undersized and soft

He's been there easily long enough. Why would it not be his fault (at least partly)?

 

[LionsMaw]

The grand final is played in Melbourne nearly every year, why hasn't Carlton won it every year?

Exactly. Idiots really need to shut their yap holes bcos big footy needs less stupid s**t said, not more.

 

[Ricketz]

I said it in the game thread. The rule changes matter - if you can't score from rebound 50, you have to score from the centre bounce.

The most effective way to do that is with as few possessions as possible leading to an attempt at goal.

Brisbane are both bad at defending it and poor at executing it. You don't need 4 possessions and space anymore. You need 1 or 2 and the boot now.

 

[SA HAWK]

The Lions have a good list to contend for a flag but have underachieved in the last 3 years.

Where is the pressure on Chris Fagan to deliver them success

Nope.

Good list but too many holes for flag contention.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

And no doubt 2022 - Out in EF

Damn right

 

[brutus76]

To be frank Melbourne were on fire - was like the 2nd half of the GF

Everything they touched was magical

Lions had plenty of the footy and enough inside 50s - their efficiency and ball use was inferior - tall forwards were rubbish

Their defense wasn't great and too slow and man marking non existent

Need a FB so Harris can play CHB and another couple of fast shutdown defenders and rebounders as Gardiner and Rich can't fulfill this role - like a Jayden Hunt

5

Jayden Hunt

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.3

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

4star

MG

78.7

1star

D

5.3

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.0

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

3star

MG

78.7

1star

D

5.3

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

2.3

4star

MG

78.7

2star

 

[Osho]

Defence defence defence.
I don't think they have that built integrally into the team structure as Dees do, and Tiges before them, and Hawks Pies before them.

Dees for all their troubles this year, with their defensive mindset and attributes will always be in games. They just need to connect to their forwards better, but they can control the oppo and stay in the game when forwards aren't working.

Lions like to score, and usually do, but can also be shut down at the pointy end.

 

[HairyO]

Aint winning a flag with a trash forward line

Hipwood really only offers height. Joey has some skills but Hipwood is a bare, oversized cupboard.

And Cameron was unsighted all night. Not sure he was even on the ground ?

McStay was back to his long term avg.

 

[Klem]

None deserved. Without him they would be a rabble.

 

[Captain_Bender]

The grand final is played in Melbourne nearly every year, why hasn't Carlton won it every year?

Have Carlton lost multiple home finals to interstate sides?

 

[demondavey]

Fluffed the golden opportunity when they couldn’t even make the GF when they had the finals in their backyard

This.

Geelong hosed them in the PF that year. It was embarrassing. Felt they were much stronger a few years ago.

 

[demondavey]

Zorko was beyond bad last night. Tough call needs to be made re captaincy. Just wasn’t focused. Really bad leadership. The core of an elite group though;
McCluggage
Rayner
Bailey
Cameron
Andrews
Berry
Daniher
McCarthy
Coleman
Starcevich

I think the defence is a major issue. Gardiner was average and isn’t A grade. They need a genuine A grade defender to support Andrews and a genuine rebounder. Not sure who is up for grabs but need to prioritise a defender very quickly, maybe two.

Window is open for a long time, aka Geelong. Give the captaincy to McCluggage or Berry.

 

[dean33]

I think it was mentioned in another thread how it may’ve been someone like Hinkley who has a better winning % than Hardwick? Or something like that?

Also, how there’s a few AFL coaches with better winning percentages than Clarko but no flags?

I kind of understand now. There’s coaches like Hinkley, Lyon and now Fagan who are good coaches but just short of what’s required as senior coaches when it comes to September.

To a lesser extent, even someone like Scott who has close to (if not more than) a winning percentage of 70% yet a finals record in the 40%-50% range. Won a flag for the Cats in his first year in the tail end of that dynasty team, but a perennial loser in September ever since for a team that has consistently finished top 4.

Probably add Longmire to that list, swans always seem to fall short in September.

 

[pulpdriver]

Zorko was beyond bad last night. Tough call needs to be made re captaincy. Just wasn’t focused. Really bad leadership. The core of an elite group though;
McCluggage
Rayner
Bailey
Cameron
Andrews
Berry
Daniher
McCarthy
Coleman
Starcevich

I think the defence is a major issue. Gardiner was average and isn’t A grade. They need a genuine A grade defender to support Andrews and a genuine rebounder. Not sure who is up for grabs but need to prioritise a defender very quickly, maybe two.

Window is open for a long time, aka Geelong. Give the captaincy to McCluggage or Berry.

A grade key defenders are hard to find. Adams was playing like one prior to Covid. Payne has promise, we need to play him at AFL more to develop.
Hopefully Wilmot can become a decent rebounder to complement Coleman going forward.
I'd give the captaincy to Neale short term and make Rayner or Berry vice.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Yeah Chris Fagan is a good development coach but he’s taken this Lions side as far as he can. Some of their better players have regressed this year! Very ordinary