Coach Chris Fagan - where is the scrutiny

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Brisbane simply cannot match up with Melbourne at all. The coach is dreaming if he thinks this was a better effort than last time, the Demons nailed this game in the first Qtr and were never in the hunt. With a top 4 position on the line they were as close to insipid as i've seen for a long time from a top team and they won't win a final in 2022.
 
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JackFlash said:
Brisbane simply cannot match up with Melbourne at all. The coach is dreaming if he thinks this was a better effort than last time, the Demons nailed this game in the first Qtr and were never in the hunt. With a top 4 position on the line they were as close to insipid as i've seen for a long time from a top team? They won't win a final in 2022.
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They might roll out one decent performance in an EF against Carlton or the WB but that’s about it. Might bring the operative word.
 

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PieLebo87 said:
I kind of understand now. There’s coaches like Hinkley, Lyon and now Fagan who are good coaches but just short of what’s required as senior coaches when it comes to September.
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Simply haven't got the list to contend for a premiership this year. Geelong and Melbourne at the very least are classier and stronger all over the field than we are.

The Lions need another big bodied midfielder to help the likes of Neale, Lyons and McCluggage and to win a few more centre stoppages. Ashcroft hopefully will add to that mix in 2023, but he wont be the answer next season. Tall forwards are out of form. Hipwood slowly coming back after a knee reconstruction, Daniher has done very little since returning from injury and McStay is out of form as well. Defence comes under too much pressure due a lack of midfield clearances.
 
T2B_ said:
What's happened to Andrews?
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I heard so much about Harris Andrews and so I watched him extra close in the finals last year, I was real excited to see this hot All-Australian defensive demigod that everyone was talking about and I was so disappointed he absolutely pissed himself under pressure, he really did I swear. I can only assume he never recovered because of the shame of it all, because since then Brisbane Lions have been on TV here in Victoria a little bit and I never once seen him play a standout game, not even one. He's crap.
 
kaiserchief13 said:
So the head coach, the one (likely) paid more than double all the other assistants is not at fault but the coaches paid much less are? How about get rid of Fagan and promote the best assistant to head coach?
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If you can guarantee someone better then sure, promote them. But Fagan has undoubtedly done a very good job and supporting a good coach with the right assistants can often turn them in to a great coach.
 
Roylion said:
Simply haven't got the list to contend for a premiership this year. Geelong and Melbourne at the very least are classier and stronger all over the field than we are.

The Lions need another big bodied midfielder to help the likes of Neale, Lyons and McCluggage and to win a few more centre stoppages. Ashcroft hopefully will add to that mix in 2023, but he wont be the answer next season. Tall forwards are out of form. Hipwood slowly coming back after a knee reconstruction, Daniher has done very little since returning from injury and McStay is out of form as well. Defence comes under too much pressure due a lack of midfield clearances.
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I’m obviously not as educated as you are about your list but from afar, prior to last night, they looked scary at the GABBA and I thought they’d get up over the Dees (no disrespect to the Dees - just me rating the Lions at home) so the extend of last night’s result caught me by surprise.

My initial point though regards Fagan is the contrasting record in H&A vs finals.

Buckley for example had an identical overall winning percentage of 53% and his finals winning percentage was 41%. So he somewhat held up in September, probably why he lasted so long. Hinkley would be in similar shoes - overall winning percentage of 58% and a finals winning record of 50%. Lyon has an overall record of 58% and went at 45% in finals.

On the flip side, you’ve got Hardwick going at 56% overall with a finals record of 66%. Clarko was at 58% overall and finals record of 62%.

Then you’ve got Fagan who has an overall winning percentage of 53% but finals winning percentage of 16%. It’s a huge gap between what he has had the Lions produce in H&A vs in finals over his 5 years.
 

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dean33 said:
Probably add Longmire to that list, swans always seem to fall short in September.
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To be fair, Longmire has a premiership and a finals record of 47% so it’s not terrible. If you’re going at around 50% or more in September your game plan somewhat holds up in September.
 
I reckon it's on field leadership more than anything, that Richmond game where they fell to bits summed it up perfectly. Had the game done and dusted and when pressure came they fell apart entirely, almost like a bottom 4 team once they lost their confidence. Their captain in Zorko is more interested in getting into fights and arguments then with giving his team direction and leadership. Getting some far less easily rattled players in their leadership group is needed as Zorko has shown again and again he is far too easily distracted and sidetracked with niggle and the slightest bit of opposition attention.

I don't know the Lions list super well but from what I've watched I'd look at retiring Zorko and maybe a few other oldies end of year, especially with Ashcroft coming through for them who likes like he'll contribute immediately, or at least standing them down from the leadership aspect. I'd look at making maybe Starcevich and Berry co-captains with a shuffle of leaders in the different lines of the group.

Berry is sort of blue collar and good in contested situation but provides them with run and is a great example of effort and hard work which you'd want in a captain. He can also go half back and half forward handily if needed so you have the versatility of your captain being able to assist in an area under pressure if you'd like to move him there and know he can deliver.

Starcevich is a bit younger but is basically running around like a 30 year old man in terms of how physical and tough he is, just seems no fuss and professional in getting his job done no matter what. I heard Hodge talking him up in terms of character and professionalism so obviously even as a kid coming in he showed a multiple time premiership captain in Hodge he was a future leader.

If they can cut out the mental wilts and on field breakdowns I think that will go a long way for the Lions and I don't really think you can lump that at the feet of the coaches. Two no fuss, tough young guns like Berry and Starcevich as their new leaders might help Fagan get what he is selling done out there when teams inevitably bring pressure and niggle.
 
BigVic said:
The Lions have a good list to contend for a flag but have underachieved in the last 3 years.

Where is the pressure on Chris Fagan to deliver them success
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Like his captain is quick on the lip and dooms it up . whines and moans about and escapes scrutiny under the “good “ guy banner .
Only finals win against a Richmond side missing Tom Lynch and after having almost the whole season played at their home ground !



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Lionheart182 said:
I haven’t looked back through history but how often does a team play both grand finalists in a finals series? We have in the last three finals series. It’s unlucky but can’t also mean we haven’t got a good enough team.
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And got to play almost an entire season at home base and still fell .


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Toump Ass said:
I heard so much about Harris Andrews and so I watched him extra close in the finals last year, I was real excited to see this hot All-Australian defensive demigod that everyone was talking about and I was so disappointed he absolutely pissed himself under pressure, he really did I swear. I can only assume he never recovered because of the shame of it all, because since then Brisbane Lions have been on TV here in Victoria a little bit and I never once seen him play a standout game, not even one. He's crap.
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He's never been the same player since he got injured for a month in 2020. Really not sure what's wrong with him, his mobility looks cooked despite his age.

Pre-late 2020 Andrews was close to the best defender in the competition. Almost a liability since.
 
Built their Def around Andrew’s and he’s bloody horrible at the moment.
Can’t seem to hold small fwds either.
They are not going to win a final if they have to play Matheison or whatever his name is.
If Zorko can’t get it at stoppages they don’t have enough talent
 
PieLebo87 said:
It’s a huge gap between what he has had the Lions produce in H&A vs in finals over his 5 years.
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The Lions in finals under Fagan
2019
QF2; Lost by 47
SF2; Lost by 3

2020
QF2: Won by 15
PF2: Lost by 40

2021
QF1: Lost by 33
SF1: Lost by 1

Could have easily been 3-3.

But lets see what the first home final brings in a fortnight against one of Richmond, Carlton or the Western Bulldogs.
 
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