Chris Judd- Love Or Hate???

[Adelaide Hawk]

Don't love him, don't hate him. I just don't rate him as highly as some others do. A very good slighly above average footballer with obvious flaws in his skills and personality.

 

[istillbelieve]

1. Riewoldt
2. Ablett
3. Judd

He is an absolute gun, it amazes how people can't see that. Would love him at Collingwood.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Like the OP, was one of my favourite players in the league.

But now that he gets free reign from the umps and MRP, it's kinda hard to still like him.

I mean, even the media is in on it.

When someone's finger goes into someone's eye, that is called an eye gouge. The videos CLEARLY show that, and yet no one wants to come out and just say it for fear of 'ruining his reputation'.

Disgraceful.

Funny thing is, it's not actually his fault. Diesel was a dirty player too, but still a gun and had the OPPOSITE effect wtih umps and tribunal. If anything, Diesel was TARGETED and still won 3 Brownlows. That's how good he was.

But it's a LOT easier to be a 'great' player these days when you're allowed to do anything you want.

That's what makes Buddy such a great player. Like Diesel, the tribunal and umps hate him, and yet he still stars.

 

[blueboy25]

hate him with a passion and yes im bitter shoot me.

For all the eagles supporters out there, what are your thoughts on players like stenglein and chick leaving their original clubs to "go home".

Remember your club was based on players returning home from the wicked east and your club song made mention of that.

I just find it strange that a heap of players have returned home to their original state but no one gets bagged like judd does. Are eagles supporters still unhappy with the deal they got?

Eagles supporters have so much love for benny cousins but he did a lot more damage to your club then Judd ever did.

 

[Underdog]

For all the eagles supporters out there, what are your thoughts on players like stenglein and chick leaving their original clubs to "go home".

Remember your club was based on players returning home from the wicked east and your club song made mention of that.

I just find it strange that a heap of players have returned home to their original state but no one gets bagged like judd does. Are eagles supporters still unhappy with the deal they got?

They weren't the captains of their club which was in turmoil and needed strong leadership only to jump ship and go home for more coin.

I have no problem with players wanting to leave if it occurs ethically.

We also compensated the other clubs generously. We essentially gave Scott Thompson and pick 28 to Adelaide for Stenglein and we traded pick 8 for Daniel Chick.

 

[Blueboy43]

Love his on field leadership and the way he can will his way to a win.

Otherwise, king of cheap shots and rubbish at off-field leadership. This was less evident at WCE (or none at all), but now it really makes me dislike him.

I bet you love Barry Hall.

 

[rose jam]

They weren't the captains of their club which was in turmoil and needed strong leadership only to jump ship and go home for more coin.

I have no problem with players wanting to leave if it occurs ethically.

And that's it for me in a nutshell. I just can't believe that he accepted the captaincy of his club, got his premiership medal and then just upped and left when his club was begging for strong leadership to get through a really difficult time and his little groin was sore. No respect for him right there.
YOU DON'T ACCEPT THE CAPTAINCY IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES WITH IT.
And we see repeated behaviour at Carlton with the way he shamefully acted in not controlling Fev or acting to stop the events on the boat over summer. Just a terribly selfish individual.
That time last year he had a blood nose and tried to play midfield with it instead of taking responsibility by trying to contribute up forward just spanked of him all over. Too selfsih to learn forward play because it's too hard for him even if that means it helps his team.

 

[Harry Yorkie]

And that's it for me in a nutshell. I just can't believe that he accepted the captaincy of his club, got his premiership medal and then just upped and left when his club was begging for strong leadership to get through a really difficult time and his little groin was sore. No respect for him right there.
YOU DON'T ACCEPT THE CAPTAINCY IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO ACCEPT THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES WITH IT.
And we see repeated behaviour at Carlton with the way he shamefully acted in not controlling Fev or acting to stop the events on the boat over summer. Just a terribly selfish individual.
That time last year he had a blood nose and tried to play midfield with it instead of taking responsibility by trying to contribute up forward just spanked of him all over. Too selfsih to learn forward play because it's too hard for him even if that means it helps his team.

I've read some rubbish on BF before but thanks for taking it to new lows.

His desire to leave the Eagles says more about them than it does about him.

 

[bourbons]

That time last year he had a blood nose and tried to play midfield with it instead of taking responsibility by trying to contribute up forward just spanked of him all over. Too selfsih to learn forward play because it's too hard for him even if that means it helps his team.

lol, just when you think you've heard it all

you guys crack me up

ps can you get me into the Carlton coaches box please?

 

[Underdog]

[/B]

I've read some rubbish on BF before but thanks for taking it to new lows.

His desire to leave the Eagles says more about them than it does about him.

I disagree. Granted, we were a rabble. But when your footy club is at it's lowest ebb and needing strong leadership, do you think it's reasonable for your captain to run away to another club for more dollars?

That's a low act if you ask me. If you are not going to stick by the club through thick and thin, don't become the captain.

 

[bourbons]

Is it his fault his contract was up at the time the Eagles happened to be at their lowest?

As has been mentioned, its pretty common knowledge that he always wanted to return to vic

 

[The Fireman]

I disagree. Granted, we were a rabble. But when your footy club is at it's lowest ebb and needing strong leadership, do you think it's reasonable for your captain to run away to another club for more dollars?

That's a low act if you ask me. If you are not going to stick by the club through thick and thin, don't become the captain.

Fair comment, I wonder what he would do now if Carlton hit the skids again? I suppose while he is getting the big bikkies it won't worry him too much .

 

[alexhawk]

Was, there are at least 30 footballers in the league that are at a higher level than Judd, and yes I can name them.

The thing I hate, is that when the going got tough and his free ride got taken away and he had to show leadership at West Coast he ran away. HE WAS CAPTAIN OF HIS CLUB and he just ran away when it got tough.
His selfish character just shone right through and you can see in the way he plays. As a person I just bet he's an egotistical p**** you'd love to deck him. You never hear a team mate of his ever really say that they like him.

Good to see the average intelligence of the Collingwood supporter hasn't changed. Judd is by no means my favourite player, but he is a star and remains Carlton's most consistent performer. I don't play at Carlton so can't speak for his leadership directly, but to consistently perform at that level is definitely leading by example.

The eyegouging incidents weren't pretty, and he doesn't deal with the frustration of tagging as well as some other stars, but even so it's harsh to judge him on reacting to what would be constant attention every week.

Not just to this poster, but stop pretending like you know the bloke, you have ABSOLUTELY no idea what he is like as a person.

 

[Xtreme]

Hate

Moreso it is the commentators "fawning" of him that drives me nuts, he is no where near as good as he used to be.... so stop treating him like he is still in 2005/2006 form.

And he's a dirty player - "Steven Segal"

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Bloody hell... It was hardly a "sermon". I'm not preaching or being holier than thou. It's basic behavioural psychology - and applies to everyone, including Judd.

You pretend I'm sermonising so you can dismiss the issue as "meaningless". It's neither "meaningless" nor a "sermon".

Depends if you have called the behaviour correctly or not. You go off on a tangent about behaviours after assuming his behaviour was what you believe it to be. Being so passionate about something based on your perception of an incident rather than the actual facts of the incident doesn't really lend itself to debate.

You describe this as "a bit of a massage"?!

Can't you see how ludicrous and bizarre that is?

So if I say pressure points, that is ludicrous. If I say facial massage, that is ludicrous. If I say eye gouge despite the fingers not actually going into the eye, and except for one split second when Rischitelli turned his head towards the contact, no finger came close to the eye, then that is far more feasible? You have made up your mind for some reason, but forgive me for not believing you are looking for truth.

There's simply no way you'd be saying this if Judd wasn't a Carlton player now. The accusation you level at others you should level at yourself.

It's demeaning

Stab in the dark huh? Felt for Juddy when he got rubbed out for an elbow at the Eagles, felt for him over the Brown eye gouge incident as there was room for doubt in that he was unsighted and Brown was on top of him. Much like I felt for Fevola when Grover had him in a headlock and upside down and with his breath being taken away he clawed away at whatever he could to extricate himself. Neither of these were like how I remember the Farmer eye gouge for example. Will stand corrected on that however.

I don't think Franklin should have gone for some of his bumps either and definitely supported Barry Hall over the prelim gut punch back in 2005 and again over the Scott Thompson headlock. I also think Stevie J was hard done by. Sometimes team bias creeps into my thoughts but if given time to think about it, I am usually pretty objective. Usually if I have wanted someone rubbed out for something similar to the above, it is because I am dirty one of our players got done for the same thing or because I want that team weakened for an upcoming clash or to affect their finals chances. As this would be highly hypocritical, I usually try to avoid posting on these occasions.

In some ways the Judd on Rischitelli thing was worse than the Brown one in that he intended to touch Rischitelli's face in order to upset him and was not in a position to want to extricate himself. However, his thumb was planted and dug in firmly behind his ear thus the pressure point thing seemed feasible when he first said it. I myself have used pressure points to attempt to subdue people (mostly just pisses them off more though).

There are 3 options:

1. Attempted to eye gouge, was not unsighted but did not achieve his objective despite making contact for several seconds.

2. Attempted to dig his fingers into pressure points, stated this at the time, then tried to back down from it, as he realised he had just stated intent to hurt someone and hung himself.

3. Was roughing up Rischitelli by grabbing at his face and head. You see these facial massages from time to time when players are getting off another player they just tackled and they push down the head or face and give it a rub. Judd's was a little more conspicious than this though in terms of movement but with not as much force. For the record I hate thug tactics like these. Just serves to antagonise and force a retaliation.

The vision shows option 3, lends itself to option 2, but makes option 1 seem unlikely unless you are cynical and thinking about the Brown incident, which is completely different.

Judd does not have a propensity to eye gouge. He probably gets into thousands of situations where he is being frustrated, niggled, held, pinned, and where he could rake the eyes, but he seems to manage self control.

I think you have overstated this a fair bit.

 

[bourbons]

Fair comment, I wonder what he would do now if Carlton hit the skids again? I suppose while he is getting the big bikkies it won't worry him too much .

Yes, because we're absolutely smashing it at the moment

The picture you have painted, surely this selfish individual would be happy with nothing less than armchair rides to the top 4?

Maybe try to get the red (sorry, navy blue) mist under control before you post

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Moreso it is the commentators "fawning" of him that drives me nuts, he is no where near as good as he used to be.... so stop treating him like he is still in 2005/2006 form.

I agree with the over the top fawning over him, especially lately. You would think Judd is the only player at Carlton doing anything if you believe the commentators. Quite often a piece of play by another player passes with barely a mention, while the same play by Juddy is considered the stuff of champions. If Judd was our only decent player, we would be wooden spooners this year. There are other reasons for us being more competitive.

It isn't Judd's fault they do it however so we shouldn't let that affect our assessment of him. For once they should just call a play, instead of raising 10 octaves as JUDDDDDYYYY swooooops in and picks up the ball, and the champion is off and running. They are definitely willing him towards his breakneck run and carry form of years ago, hoping he will sprint away from everyone and kick a long goal from 50. Problem is his goalkicking is a real disappointment and we would prefer Garlett or Betts or Yarran or Simpson or Scotland or Gibbs or Murphy swooping on the ball and kicking from 50.

Judd is a fantastic physically strong clearance player, and has great vision. Execution is down a notch and he is not quite the offensive weapon the commentators think he is. Not in this team, not in this role.

Not bagging him by any stretch. Would just like to see our team get credit where it is due and acknowledge that they all have deficiencies. We do not want one player on a pedestal. Hasn't really worked for us in the past.

I think his leadership skills are understated. He is not outwardly vocal but I believe he has a lot of input behind the scenes and leads by example on the field.

 

[blueboy25]

They weren't the captains of their club which was in turmoil and needed strong leadership only to jump ship and go home for more coin.

I have no problem with players wanting to leave if it occurs ethically.

We also compensated the other clubs generously. We essentially gave Scott Thompson and pick 28 to Adelaide for Stenglein and we traded pick 8 for Daniel Chick.

What was unethical about Judd leaving? He told the club when they offered the captaincy that he could not guarantee that he would sign a new contract and they still offered it to him. It was pretty much forced on him becuase your club was too weak when it came to cousins.

Rememebr Judd could have walked straight into the PSD.

Poor old ken judge cops a lot from eagles supporters but he is the one that let the board know about cousins and gardiners off-field antics. What does the club do? Sack judge and make cousins and gardiner captain and vice captain.

You dont think the eagles could have matched carltons offer? I am sure nigel satterley had a few special sponsorship deals on offer.

 

[Underdog]

It was pretty much forced on him becuase your club was too weak when it came to cousins.

Forced? What a load of rubbish. You seriously think a bloke presumably as intelligent as Judd thought he had no choice? What if he declined? How do you think a club is going to punish their best player?

Rememebr Judd could have walked straight into the PSD.

Then he wouldn't have got to the club that he wanted to. But by narrowing down his preferred clubs to...1...he left us with very little bargaining power.

 

[rose jam]

Hate

Moreso it is the commentators "fawning" of him that drives me nuts, he is no where near as good as he used to be.... so stop treating him like he is still in 2005/2006 form.

That's true. When I watch Carlton games the only time I think Carlton look damaging is when Kade Simpson is playing well through the middle. Whether Judd plays well or not doesn't seem to impact their performance because of his poor ball use and now tendency to just run backwards out of packs, but commentators will never admit this.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Then he wouldn't have got to the club that he wanted to. But by narrowing down his preferred clubs to...1...he left us with very little bargaining power.

You need to check in with some of your fellow supporters, who after initially thinking they got reamed in the deal, then thought they had won the deal because of Kennedy's form and Masten's potential. They might wax and wane a little bit depending on how Masten develops but you can't blame Carlton for the selection or for his injuries. Pick 3, 20 and Kennedy who was a pick 4 himself, was not a crappy deal. Remember Judd was severely hampered by his groin at the time, so returning to his best form was always a questionable thing. Judd and Carlton did the right thing by the Eagles, regardless of what you think they should have got for him. They certainly did better than what any other club were offering. Tigers would have given 2 and 18 but you wouldn't have got Kennedy for that incremental improvement.

 

[Bloods Rule!]

He's still a good player but walking away from the Eagles when the team and club fell apart is unforgiveable. He may have said earlier that he was thinking of leaving but, as a leader, he had a duty to reconsider and see his club through the turmoil. Instead he walked away.

Can you imagine other captains doing that? Can you imagine Hird or Kirk or Ling walking out on their clubs when the going got tough? That Judd did is a reflection on the character of the man.

 

[blueboy25]

Can you imagine other captains doing that? Can you imagine Hird or Kirk or Ling walking out on their clubs when the going got tough? That Judd did is a reflection on the character of the man.

Remember the year when Judd left, the eagles had just missed a prelim final by a couple of points after playing the year out severley hampered by injury.

Doesn't sound like a club struggling to me?

If he was such a weak character then why did he play that season out when he was severely hampered by injury.

I think the eagles current captain has missed most of this year with a very simialr injury. Maybe he is weak because he is not putting his hand up to play and out their helping the team.

I recall leigh colbert was also captain when he left the cats for north.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

He's still a good player but walking away from the Eagles when the team and club fell apart is unforgiveable. He may have said earlier that he was thinking of leaving but, as a leader, he had a duty to reconsider and see his club through the turmoil. Instead he walked away.

Can you imagine other captains doing that? Can you imagine Hird or Kirk or Ling walking out on their clubs when the going got tough? That Judd did is a reflection on the character of the man.

He captained them to a flag in 2006, played finals 2007. Left at the end of 2007 - at the time, hardly abandoning a sinking ship.

He wanted to come home - how long was he supposed to stay that would have suited your own high standards ??

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

He's still a good player but walking away from the Eagles when the team and club fell apart is unforgiveable. He may have said earlier that he was thinking of leaving but, as a leader, he had a duty to reconsider and see his club through the turmoil. Instead he walked away.

Can you imagine other captains doing that? Can you imagine Hird or Kirk or Ling walking out on their clubs when the going got tough? That Judd did is a reflection on the character of the man.

So he was considering leaving some two years before. Reluctantly took the captaincy because he couldn't guarantee being there beyond his next contract. They asked him to take it anyway (possibly thinking it might keep him there). Stuck to his guns and decided to return to his home state, and you think he should have sacrificed his own life ambitions and needs because the Eagles happened to be falling apart off field at that time, through no fault of his? Is that about right?

Kirk - born NSW, no go home factor. Ling - born Geelong, no go home factor. Hird - born ACT but parents originally from Melbourne, and his father and grandfather played for the Bombers - no go home factor.

Judd was open and honest with the Eagles the whole time and they were just hoping against hope he would change their mind. The fact that he did what he said he was going to do, does not mean he ran away. Hell, he stayed with them longer than he first thought and helped them win a flag.