Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[David the Cat]

We were in it for the 3rd quarter only. It was a nightmare. The lowest finals score since 1930s or whatever it was. Near enough is not good enough. Its shit. Id rather finish 18th and got a few top talented picks than 2nd then out in straight sets.

LOL........

 

[And_ROOS]

In retrospect — and we’ve come up with a few things in retrospect — we could have played him

Well **** me.

Scott also responded firmly to rumours that Menzel was dropped for disciplinary reasons rather than football ones, saying they were not true.

“With a lot of these things there are things said, and people often choose run with them without actually asking the people who would actually know,” he said.

“There are rumours swirling out there, I think there are some mischievous people who push agendas that aren’t factual. It’s a pretty simple answer, that one, the answer is no.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ge...d/news-story/e265ca21b13388f6b93caac2686ffa2d

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Well **** me.

Scott also responded firmly to rumours that Menzel was dropped for disciplinary reasons rather than football ones, saying they were not true.

“With a lot of these things there are things said, and people often choose run with them without actually asking the people who would actually know,” he said.

“There are rumours swirling out there, I think there are some mischievous people who push agendas that aren’t factual. It’s a pretty simple answer, that one, the answer is no.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ge...d/news-story/e265ca21b13388f6b93caac2686ffa2d

I absolutely refuse to believe we covered up a transgression of the rumoured nature - that's the opposite of the culture we have adopted and displayed since the 2006 review
If we've lost that honesty then heaven help us

 

[And_ROOS]

I absolutely refuse to believe we covered up a transgression of the rumoured nature - that's the opposite of the culture we have adopted and displayed since the 2006 review
If we've lost that honesty then heaven help us

Thats how I see it too. I didn't really buy the rumours and was waiting for something concrete to surface or leak, and nothing has besides a facebook post. Not sure why Scott would take the heat for a transgression like that.

 

[Catman]

Not my club. Not my problem.

But when you are trading away picks for players - a strategy fully endorsed by some on here (because developing your own players is just so last year) - don't then defend them after a finals belting with a flimsy excuse that the list suddenly isn't good enough. The club have followed this policy deliberately. It's no one else's fault but theirs.

So you wouldn't have recruited Dangerfield, Smith, Henderson or Tuohy?

 

[Partridge]

So you wouldn't have recruited Dangerfield, Smith, Henderson or Tuohy?

Dangerfield yes, those deals don't come along often. I look at the Ottens trade as being very similar. Henderson yes, but not for a first round pick. Smith I'm not sure and Tuohy no.

You have to include others too. Since the last flag it also includes Rivers, McIntosh, Clark, Stanley, and Scott Selwood.

 

[And_ROOS]

Dangerfield yes, those deals don't come along often. I look at the Ottens trade as being very similar. Henderson yes, but not for a first round pick. Smith I'm not sure and Tuohy no.

You have to include others too. Since the last flag it also includes Rivers, McIntosh, Clark, Stanley, and Scott Selwood.

Smith was one of the few actually trying on Friday night, and Tuohy has been one of our best this season. Selwood wasn't a total let down either. The thing is, players like that need other talent to complement them and as it stands the talent coming through just isn't that good.

 

[BringBackTomFloyd]

My initial thinking was similar. Why not just say 'soreness'?

On further thought there's two things in play. One, do we want the additional pressure of having to be caught up in the media hullabaloo that would arise from leaving out a percieved key player for disciplinary reasons before a huge finals game? Two, while we as a club may have cooled on Menz the player, another rest for soreness may affect his ability to get a better deal elsewhere. Just because we may no longer rate him as highly, and could just part ways at no cost to us, we aren't the sort of club to make things harder for him to find a more suitable home while we push him out the door.

We've tried to do quite a bit of hosing down with regards to a few matters during this season, so I don't see the scenario as terribly unrealistic.

Many many stories on what went on with this selection. Firstly there was no drunken night out or missed team meeting on Menzel's behalf. This guy is professional and beyond reproach. This was a captains call from Chris Scott that went against the opinions of his assistants. The assistants were shocked and horrified with what he wanted and what he ran with. So were the players. He also wanted to name Menzel and pull him out just prior to the game. This approach would enable Scott to fly under the radar and not cop any heat on his omission as it would appear he didn't come up physically. The player and his management obviously took umbrage to what was going to take place and rightfully so if he is out the door at seasons end ,as some clubs would regard him as injury riddled if he was pulled out just prior to bounce down. Obviously those discussions led to the truthful scenario (which was that of being omitted) being published at selection time. Don't kid yourself with theories. Chris Scott botched this and the affect it would have on the playing group. Scott hijacked our perfect preparation at the 11th hour with a decision that allowed the players to lose focus and I'm sure some of the players were angry with his non selection. He is the heart and soul of our club and his non selection was always going to unsettle the group. I so hope Menzel rips it apart on Friday to show up Chris Scott and his lack of insight, understanding and common sense.

 

[cats251]

Many many stories on what went on with this selection. Firstly there was no drunken night out or missed team meeting on Menzel's behalf. This guy is professional and beyond reproach. This was a captains call from Chris Scott that went against the opinions of his assistants. The assistants were shocked and horrified with what he wanted and what he ran with. So were the players. He also wanted to name Menzel and pull him out just prior to the game. This approach would enable Scott to fly under the radar and not cop any heat on his omission as it would appear he didn't come up physically. The player and his management obviously took umbrage to what was going to take place and rightfully so if he is out the door at seasons end ,as some clubs would regard him as injury riddled if he was pulled out just prior to bounce down. Obviously those discussions led to the truthful scenario (which was that of being omitted) being published at selection time. Don't kid yourself with theories. Chris Scott botched this and the affect it would have on the playing group. Scott hijacked our perfect preparation at the 11th hour with a decision that allowed the players to lose focus and I'm sure some of the players were angry with his non selection. He is the heart and soul of our club and his non selection was always going to unsettle the group. I so hope Menzel rips it apart on Friday to show up Chris Scott and his lack of insight, understanding and common sense.

Your view on this topic comes across as though you know a little bit of what's going on down behind the club room doors.
If that's true, and not just your opinion of the situation, it's damming on the coaches behalf.

 

[Vdubs]

Many many stories on what went on with this selection. Firstly there was no drunken night out or missed team meeting on Menzel's behalf. This guy is professional and beyond reproach. This was a captains call from Chris Scott that went against the opinions of his assistants. The assistants were shocked and horrified with what he wanted and what he ran with. So were the players. He also wanted to name Menzel and pull him out just prior to the game. This approach would enable Scott to fly under the radar and not cop any heat on his omission as it would appear he didn't come up physically. The player and his management obviously took umbrage to what was going to take place and rightfully so if he is out the door at seasons end ,as some clubs would regard him as injury riddled if he was pulled out just prior to bounce down. Obviously those discussions led to the truthful scenario (which was that of being omitted) being published at selection time. Don't kid yourself with theories. Chris Scott botched this and the affect it would have on the playing group. Scott hijacked our perfect preparation at the 11th hour with a decision that allowed the players to lose focus and I'm sure some of the players were angry with his non selection. He is the heart and soul of our club and his non selection was always going to unsettle the group. I so hope Menzel rips it apart on Friday to show up Chris Scott and his lack of insight, understanding and common sense.

Is this your KNOWLEDGE, or astute opinion?
If factual, it is an indictment.

 

[Podsnap]

Many many stories on what went on with this selection. Firstly there was no drunken night out or missed team meeting on Menzel's behalf. This guy is professional and beyond reproach. This was a captains call from Chris Scott that went against the opinions of his assistants. The assistants were shocked and horrified with what he wanted and what he ran with. So were the players. He also wanted to name Menzel and pull him out just prior to the game. This approach would enable Scott to fly under the radar and not cop any heat on his omission as it would appear he didn't come up physically. The player and his management obviously took umbrage to what was going to take place and rightfully so if he is out the door at seasons end ,as some clubs would regard him as injury riddled if he was pulled out just prior to bounce down. Obviously those discussions led to the truthful scenario (which was that of being omitted) being published at selection time. Don't kid yourself with theories. Chris Scott botched this and the affect it would have on the playing group. Scott hijacked our perfect preparation at the 11th hour with a decision that allowed the players to lose focus and I'm sure some of the players were angry with his non selection. He is the heart and soul of our club and his non selection was always going to unsettle the group. I so hope Menzel rips it apart on Friday to show up Chris Scott and his lack of insight, understanding and common sense.

Makes more sense than the drunken Menzel rumours, at least I'm hoping anyway. The idea that we drop our arguably most potent forward for a qualifying final is insane. The whole point of the season is to make the qualifying final, you don't use it to punish and deter. Players can serve their time in a way that doesn't compromise the whole point of the club existing. MY problem is that I have so little trust in the clubs decision making right now that I'm entertaining the rumour as truth. What a waste of an opportunity.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Not my club. Not my problem.

But when you are trading away picks for players - a strategy fully endorsed by some on here (because developing your own players is just so last year) - don't then defend them after a finals belting with a flimsy excuse that the list suddenly isn't good enough. The club have followed this policy deliberately. It's no one else's fault but theirs.

totally agree with this. The wheel is still in spin, and this is a funny year, so I will hold my judgement. But right now, I'll say the list is plenty good enough to go all the way.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

We were in it for the 3rd quarter only. It was a nightmare. The lowest finals score since 1930s or whatever it was. Near enough is not good enough. Its shit. Id rather finish 18th and got a few top talented picks than 2nd then out in straight sets.

Jebus, man! According to this forum, we can't handle making a prelim. They'll close the place down if we don't make the 8. Burn it to the ground if we finish 18th.

Carlton and Melbourne and the Tigers and North have spent decades in the wilderness. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Whit3y]

And every time you trade away a pick for an established player, that's another player you won't have coming through in 3-5 years. Look at our drafting since the last premiership. Hope no one is expecting the class of 2011-2016 to deliver success anytime soon.

you dont have full faith in stringer, hamling, kersten, orren, hartman, jansen, walker, burbury, gore??

your such a negative nelly

 

[selwoodsbandage]

Jebus, man! According to this forum, we can't handle making a prelim. They'll close the place down if we don't make the 8. Burn it to the ground if we finish 18th.

Carlton and Melbourne and the Tigers and North have spent decades in the wilderness. Be careful what you wish for.

I am sick of finishing "in a position to contend" and then not contending when its time. That is Scotts mantra. The buck stops with him. We need more talent. We are now in the spot where we have to trade for it. It won't last forever. In a few years we are going to crash down hard and I would rather not be looking for a new coaching staff at the same time.

 

[Cat of Ages]

Chris Scott is on the record as saying he does not want to be around Catland if he is locally perceived as a failure, for personal reasons. This was on the fascinating 2-hour podcast interview he gave. If we lose on Friday (and I think we will give winning a good shake) he might well offer to step down.

That would be sad. No coach will be universally loved at their club.

The real question might not be what happens to Geelong during finals but how we lose when we lose, finals or not. Rarely do we lose a tight contest. What happens is that we get out-pressured and even our best lose their wigs. This began pre-Scott – vs Collingwood in the H/A season in 2008, as the notable one.

Mick Ellis’s 10-page essay (in Inside Footy a couple of months ago) on why games are won and lost explained why isolating even a few factors to explain outcomes/momentum isn’t enough. There is as we all deeply know, a whole matrix of factors.

But the Cats seem to have one main way of losing, regardless of whether it is to Essendon, Carlton, Melbourne, Collingwood or in finals. Any thoughts?

Even so - Go Cats!!

 

[cynical]

Chris Scott is on the record as saying he does not want to be around Catland if he is locally perceived as a failure, for personal reasons. This was on the fascinating 2-hour podcast interview he gave. If we lose on Friday (and I think we will give winning a good shake) he might well offer to step down.

Some of us can only dream that it will happen.

Scott will be around until there is a lot of media pressure, thats normally the way.

 

[dazbroncos]

Not entirely sure what Biggy has to do with anything.

I didn't ask for a rebuild five years ago, nor one now. I'd prefer we kept our picks and developed our own players. Every year. It's continuous. There are never guarantees, but I've seen that method deliver three premierships. Which seems to be compelling evidence. Myself and others definitely questioned some of the trades that were done five years ago and since - no way is it just in retrospect.

Speaking of which, we're coming up on the five year anniversary of the McIntosh trade. Perhaps we can name a golden crutch in his honour.

Worst trade of the recent era - no question - but the process has also yielded PFD, Hendo, Smith et al. There have been some failures and some successes.
But yes, the example you quote was simply as disaster - the theory made sense at the time - but wow what a miss.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

you dont have full faith in stringer, hamling, kersten, orren, hartman, jansen, walker, burbury, gore??

your such a negative nelly

But all the players you speak of were drafted not traded in....

GO Catters

 

[cynical]

Worst trade of the recent era - no question - but the process has also yielded PFD, Hendo, Smith et al. There have been some failures and some successes.
But yes, the example you quote was simply as disaster - the theory made sense at the time - but wow what a miss.

Go Catters

zero flags and a terrible list

 

[Vdubs]

Dangerfield yes, those deals don't come along often. I look at the Ottens trade as being very similar. Henderson yes, but not for a first round pick. Smith I'm not sure and Tuohy no.

You have to include others too. Since the last flag it also includes Rivers, McIntosh, Clark, Stanley, and Scott Selwood.

Of that group, I have issues only with Clark and HMac.
There are valid arguments for all the rest as being best available in areas we had high need.
Maybe we had plenty like Rivers as well, but he did not underperform when he was available, like SS.

 

[Overhang]

Former Geelong great Mark Bairstow has delivered an attack on the game-day tactics adopted by coach Chris Scott following the Cats' heavy qualifying final loss to Richmond last Friday night.

Bairstow, who captained Geelong in the early 1990s, said Geelong would not succeed against top sides until they dumped the press and went back to "one-on-one football across the ground".
"I watch them time and again especially blokes like Steve Motlop who burst out of defence and he is suddenly in three minds what to do as there is no one in front of him," Bairstow said. "You might get away with that against weaker sides during the season but not in finals. Finals is the time of unrelenting pressure that will bring the press down."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ott-for-matchday-tactics-20170910-gyejc2.html

I tend to agree with Bairstow here, our game plan has been proven to fail under finals pressure. Really want to see something different this week.

 

[cats251]

But the Cats seem to have one main way of losing, regardless of whether it is to Essendon, Carlton, Melbourne, Collingwood or in finals. Any thoughts?

Stop Dangerwood.
It's really that simple.

Look at the games we lost, or nearly lost.
Round 3, Selwood was contained and it was virtually left to Dangerfield. Lucky win that day.
Round 6, both Dangerfield and Selwood play a stinker and we lose quite comfortably.
Round 7, Selwood not at his best again.
Round 8, Once more, Selwood plays poorly while Dangerfield tries to do the bulk of the work.
Round 13, Selwood plays a stinker.
Round 18, Both Dangerfield and Selwood are well down in their usual outputs.

On the weekend, Selwood was next to useless.

Sydney would be mad if they didn't tag Dangerfield on Friday night.

 

[Cattery]

I put the feelers out when I heard, got the nod from someone who's always on the money with this stuff.

I asked a couple of people who know things, and he was dropped for disciplinary reasons.

Who were these people "who know things" the local Butcher, Baker or Candlestick maker?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I am sick of finishing "in a position to contend" and then not contending when its time. That is Scotts mantra. The buck stops with him. We need more talent. We are now in the spot where we have to trade for it. It won't last forever. In a few years we are going to crash down hard and I would rather not be looking for a new coaching staff at the same time.

I'm guessing I'm much older than you. If so, we look through a different lens, you and me.