Clark-Jamar-Martin-Gawn

[Canary]

Playing Jamar, Martin and Gawn in one team would be moronic

He didn't say that, he (she) said that if Martin or Jamar go down, Gawn would be an automatic replacement, which I agree with, Martin to a lesser extent. If Clark goes down I'd like to see Cook or McDonald come in.

 

[The Dr]

One of them has to be traded. If it was up to me i would trade Clark

Yup, great call

 

[Darksidepoints]

Can't believe people are even considering putting Clark anywhere near the bounce. He is our big FWD target and that should be it. With The Russian and Stef doing back-up duties we are fine. Big Max isn't quite ready for the big time, although I would love to see him get some more games into him this year.

 

[pjfairbairn]

Can you read?

Forget Clark as a ruckman, he has been recruited as a key forward. We also went after Dawes to fill the same gap, and obviously he is not a ruckman at all. Our ruck stocks are strong; no pressure on Gawn to develop too quickly, just need to make sure we tie him down for a long contract to step right in when Jamar is too old.

Stef surprised us all this year, and would love more of the same, but he is not likely to ever push to be the number one ruckman.

Clark's rucking ability is a bonus in case we have a spate of injuries either before selection or during a game, but make no mistake he will be up forward

 

[Topkent]

I do wonder if this opens the door to Jamar being traded out at the end of next year while he still has some value.

If Stef martin continues to ruck as well as he did this year and even better still then with Clark as well now and also Gawn waiting in the wings. Could be a good chance to get a late first/early second round draft pick.

 

[lose]

I do wonder if this opens the door to Jamar being traded out at the end of next year while he still has some value.

If Stef martin continues to ruck as well as he did this year and even better still then with Clark as well now and also Gawn waiting in the wings. Could be a good chance to get a late first/early second round draft pick.

yeh great idea seen as our 3 first rounders obviously won't be enough..

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Jamar would be worth a top 10 pick; no doubt there.

An AA ruck in his prime.

 

[Topkent]

yeh great idea seen as our 3 first rounders obviously won't be enough..

Never said they wouldnt be but it would mean we could use one of the compo picks in another year, and besides how old is the Russian? 28-29? may only have 2 years left in his body anyway, if you could trade away a 29 yr old ruckman for a first round pick, thats a win in my list management any day of the week. Of course its all dependant on how Martin rucks this year and whether he is good enough to ruck as the NO 1

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Jamar would be worth a top 10 pick; no doubt there.

An AA ruck in his prime.

First rounder closer to 15 imo, will be 28yo

Jolly went to Collingwood for 14 at the same age as a premiership ruckman, alot of people have forgotten about Jamars 2010 outside of the MFC circles

 

[Topkent]

First rounder closer to 15 imo, will be 28yo

Jolly went to Collingwood for 14 at the same age as a premiership ruckman, alot of people have forgotten about Jamars 2010 outside of the MFC circles

Exactly and if he doesnt have a great year next year either he we will be lucky to get a pick between 15-30 for him.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Yeah but Cameron Wood was worth pick 12.

 

[pjfairbairn]

I hope the Russian gets to finish his career with us. As a much-maligned player, he overcame injury and ability obstacles to become an All-Australian ruckman. Let's not get greedy chasing draft picks, at the start of 2009 he was lucky to be kept on the list!

 

[rhaz]

He'd have A LOT to teach the younger blokes as well, and not just the ruckmen. I know he is a qualified PT outside of football, wouldn't be surprised if he went into coaching too... just seems like that type of guy.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

As a Brisbane supporter, firstly can I say that I'm not in here to s**t stir. Any criticisms or comments on limitations, of your players is meant as and honest appraisal by an outsider. I do have a soft spot for the Ds as my Dad supports them and Stynes is an inspiration to anyone and everyone. Thank you for taking Clark. I'd much rather see the Demons up and about rather than Freo.
OK on with the harsh opinions. The succession plans of Jamar-Gawn with Martin as 2nd fiddle is the correct way to build your club, but to have clark in your ruck scenarios is wrong. He made his way (via injury) into the brisbane side as our back up second ruckman. He wasn't and never will be a first choice ruckman. To say he adds flexibility to your side is wrong. If he plays, even as a rotation in the ruck, you will lose more games than you can afford to(seeing as you're aiming for a top 8 finish to 2012). The only reason he should be used in that role is a mid game injury, forward pocket throw ins (which most FFs take anyway) and third man up in the forward 50.
The player I'd be most worried about losing in all this is Cook. By all accounts he a respectable up and coming FF. Casey screwed him last year with Fev and his path has now been blocked by Clark. Trade him whilst he still has currency. Pick 25-45 sounds like a fair deal. The only way to get a top 20 pick out of him is if he goes with another player or Adelaide get desperate if they lose Tippet to GC (could work)or Brisbane (which we don't need).
Harsh but hopefully you'll see my comments as fair.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

OR!!!!

We could let Cook develop and see if he can nab a spot off another player; maybe even Clark?

God forbid he can also play CHB!!!!

Maybe Watts will move to the midfield and Cook can take up a CHF spot?

Anything but trading out 2nd year (2012) first round draft pick KPP!!!

 

[demonfan9]

FFS people, we're not going to trade Jamar. Everyone's obsessed with getting high draft picks after years of rebuilding. You do realise that you eventually need some big physical players if you want to get anywhere. And trading a popular club man still in good form will have a detrimental effect on the playing group.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

As a Brisbane supporter, firstly can I say that I'm not in here to s**t stir. Any criticisms or comments on limitations, of your players is meant as and honest appraisal by an outsider. I do have a soft spot for the Ds as my Dad supports them and Stynes is an inspiration to anyone and everyone. Thank you for taking Clark. I'd much rather see the Demons up and about rather than Freo.
OK on with the harsh opinions. The succession plans of Jamar-Gawn with Martin as 2nd fiddle is the correct way to build your club, but to have clark in your ruck scenarios is wrong. He made his way (via injury) into the brisbane side as our back up second ruckman. He wasn't and never will be a first choice ruckman. To say he adds flexibility to your side is wrong. If he plays, even as a rotation in the ruck, you will lose more games than you can afford to(seeing as you're aiming for a top 8 finish to 2012). The only reason he should be used in that role is a mid game injury, forward pocket throw ins (which most FFs take anyway) and third man up in the forward 50.
The player I'd be most worried about losing in all this is Cook. By all accounts he a respectable up and coming FF. Casey screwed him last year with Fev and his path has now been blocked by Clark. Trade him whilst he still has currency. Pick 25-45 sounds like a fair deal. The only way to get a top 20 pick out of him is if he goes with another player or Adelaide get desperate if they lose Tippet to GC (could work)or Brisbane (which we don't need).
Harsh but hopefully you'll see my comments as fair.

WHAT!

Seriously how many clubs have 3 genuine talls in their forward line? Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn....hmm all top 4

Also Cook is 19 and 1 year into his career, also having Fev there was seen as a great help to many of our forwards tbh.

Next year Casey should be his for the taking in all reality.

pick 45....yep an all Australian U18 CHF not FF as you say loses 2/3 of his value after a year in the AFL system....think again.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

No doubt.

I would hate to trade Jamar, hate it.

I would literally hate Tim Harrington.

 

[Baby_Jenks]

Geelong - Mooney played how many games for them last year? Jpod and Hawkins were their two talls and Hawkins played the fair chunk of his time in the first half of the year as a ruckman. Ottens/Vardy were often rested down there so fair call.
Collingwood - Cloke can't argue against him being one of the most lethal talls in the game. Dawes however missed a big chunk of the year with a hand injury. Leaves Cloke, Brown (back up ruckman) and Keefe/Wood as talls. Three big men but not necessarily forwards.
Hawks - Buddy played almost every game however Roughead was out early leaving Hale to take his spot. More a traditional 1,2 punch.
Hopefully this shows that three talls wasn't all that common and when it was it was more a case of having the luxury of playing three talls with a vastly superior side as opposed to the side being superior due to having three talls.
The only sides that tried 3 really big boys were Essendon and West Coast. One failure and one success. Are you sure you want to have your clubs future rest on a coin toss?

I'm guessing your main angst at my opinion was the Cook issue and what would be a fair draft trade for him? Fair enough. I wouldn't be happy with the situation either.
Cook is in his second year trying to cement his spot in the twos. Third year he'll be knocking on the door for first team selection. BUT
Melbourne is not exactly renowned for being a politics free environment. The name, the fact that you traded him in and the pay cheque of Clark will be hard to dislodge and Watts will play CHF for the rest of his career. The Melbourne hierarchy won't allow him to move from there after a first pick and all the scrutiny they've put themselves under because of it.
This leads me think that Cook will be the one thrown to the wolves (so to speak) in a trade.
If you were another club what would you offer for a rebuilding (but now hopefully decent) clubs 4th choice tall forward (assuming Jurrah is kept on) in his third season with less than 20 games in him? 25-45 is a very vague number which I said on purpose. If he shows something but still doesn't get games then 25-30 looks likely.
If he gets games but only looks alright 30-40 looks likely.
If he can only offer hopes and dreams then 40-45 will be the best you can hope for.
There's a lot of water to go under the bridge until then.
I think the kid will be better than Clark and most likely give Watts a run for his money but trade bait seems the most likely future for him.

 

[BringBackTheOx]

am i mistaken that cook could play at both ends?
dont forget that there is always injuries!

 

[dee64]

Watts will play CHF for the rest of his career. The Melbourne hierarchy won't allow him to move from there after a first pick and all the scrutiny they've put themselves under because of it.
This leads me think that Cook will be the one thrown to the wolves (so to speak) in a trade.

I very much doubt that. Don't think that he has the body size to take the rigours of a permenent CHF.

With his ball skills and natural athleticism, wouldn't be surprised if he has a free rein within the forward line, and occasionally pushes into the midfield.

Too early to tell what role Cook has within our structure.

 

[The Dr]

As a Brisbane supporter, firstly can I say that I'm not in here to s**t stir. Any criticisms or comments on limitations, of your players is meant as and honest appraisal by an outsider. I do have a soft spot for the Ds as my Dad supports them and Stynes is an inspiration to anyone and everyone. Thank you for taking Clark. I'd much rather see the Demons up and about rather than Freo.
OK on with the harsh opinions. The succession plans of Jamar-Gawn with Martin as 2nd fiddle is the correct way to build your club, but to have clark in your ruck scenarios is wrong. He made his way (via injury) into the brisbane side as our back up second ruckman. He wasn't and never will be a first choice ruckman. To say he adds flexibility to your side is wrong. If he plays, even as a rotation in the ruck, you will lose more games than you can afford to(seeing as you're aiming for a top 8 finish to 2012). The only reason he should be used in that role is a mid game injury, forward pocket throw ins (which most FFs take anyway) and third man up in the forward 50.
The player I'd be most worried about losing in all this is Cook. By all accounts he a respectable up and coming FF. Casey screwed him last year with Fev and his path has now been blocked by Clark. Trade him whilst he still has currency. Pick 25-45 sounds like a fair deal. The only way to get a top 20 pick out of him is if he goes with another player or Adelaide get desperate if they lose Tippet to GC (could work)or Brisbane (which we don't need).
Harsh but hopefully you'll see my comments as fair.

Everything made good sense until the Cook rubbish. Second year KP prospect, first round draft pick, AA at under-18 level.....yup let's trade him for pick 45....

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Geelong - Mooney played how many games for them last year? Jpod and Hawkins were their two talls and Hawkins played the fair chunk of his time in the first half of the year as a ruckman. Ottens/Vardy were often rested down there so fair call.
Collingwood - Cloke can't argue against him being one of the most lethal talls in the game. Dawes however missed a big chunk of the year with a hand injury. Leaves Cloke, Brown (back up ruckman) and Keefe/Wood as talls. Three big men but not necessarily forwards.
Hawks - Buddy played almost every game however Roughead was out early leaving Hale to take his spot. More a traditional 1,2 punch.
Hopefully this shows that three talls wasn't all that common and when it was it was more a case of having the luxury of playing three talls with a vastly superior side as opposed to the side being superior due to having three talls.
The only sides that tried 3 really big boys were Essendon and West Coast. One failure and one success. Are you sure you want to have your clubs future rest on a coin toss?

I'm guessing your main angst at my opinion was the Cook issue and what would be a fair draft trade for him? Fair enough. I wouldn't be happy with the situation either.
Cook is in his second year trying to cement his spot in the twos. Third year he'll be knocking on the door for first team selection. BUT
Melbourne is not exactly renowned for being a politics free environment. The name, the fact that you traded him in and the pay cheque of Clark will be hard to dislodge and Watts will play CHF for the rest of his career. The Melbourne hierarchy won't allow him to move from there after a first pick and all the scrutiny they've put themselves under because of it.
This leads me think that Cook will be the one thrown to the wolves (so to speak) in a trade.
If you were another club what would you offer for a rebuilding (but now hopefully decent) clubs 4th choice tall forward (assuming Jurrah is kept on) in his third season with less than 20 games in him? 25-45 is a very vague number which I said on purpose. If he shows something but still doesn't get games then 25-30 looks likely.
If he gets games but only looks alright 30-40 looks likely.
If he can only offer hopes and dreams then 40-45 will be the best you can hope for.
There's a lot of water to go under the bridge until then.
I think the kid will be better than Clark and most likely give Watts a run for his money but trade bait seems the most likely future for him.

Collingwood played Cloke, Dawes, Brown and often a second ruck rotating forward at times when all fit.

Hawthorn did similar until the Roughead injury with he Franklin and Hale, Bailey?

Westcoast definately did

Geelong Pod, Hawkins, Vardy/West/Ottens (two whom played most weeks)

Carlton just dont have the quality talls to do it...

Melbourne = Clark, Watts, Cook and a resting ruck.

Then there are injuries ect see Hawthorn missing Roughhead for the majority of a season....where would they be without Hale?

You dont only have 2 decent/ready forwards in a side, not that Cook would be ready for AFL atm, injured and to young/small but he is backup. doubt he will play much next year either for such reasons.....

If we get to a times when it is seen one of our talls can be traded, it will be to our advantage, i dont think this time will come tbh with injuries ect

 

[demonfan9]

I very much doubt that. Don't think that he has the body size to take the rigours of a permenent CHF.

With his ball skills and natural athleticism, wouldn't be surprised if he has a free rein within the forward line, and occasionally pushes into the midfield.

Too early to tell what role Cook has within our structure.

Watts will develop the body in time. He doesn't need to be a Cloke-sized brute to play the role. His talent and athleticism will allow him to perform the role more than adequately, even without a truly massive frame.

I'm also not a fan of playing him in the midfield. He was regarded as the #1 draft pick because of his exceptional forward work, so lets keep him there. Midfielders are dime a dozen.

 

[dees_2012_flag]

If all 4 guys are fit and playing


Jamar - 60% ruck, 30% forward, 10% bench

Martin - 40% ruck, 50% back, 10% bench

Clark - 100% forward

Gawn - still developing at Casey, will get senior games when injuries occur


I guess Clark will find himself in the ruck at certain points, he will do the forward 50 ruckwork.