Clarkson OR Wallet?

[H2F]

I expect that this will be a landslide victory to Wallet but I genuinely believe that Clarkson has done a wonderful job rebuilding our list from the joke of the AFL to an exciting and united young team.

So the argument continues between Tigers and Hawks over who made the right choice.

Anyone agree Clarkson is doing ok? Or will Wallet win in a landslide as expected?

 

[_RT_]

Would help if you actually include a poll if you are going to conduct one.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Clarkson had the balls to cut and trade the deadwood from the list in an attempt to restock the club with young talent.
Has also had the balls to do this while only under a 2 year contract, when he knew results wouldn't be seen in that time.
I'm a bit of a fan of Clarko and what he's managed to do so far in his tenure.
He hasn't got the winning percentage of Wallace, or the experience but he's built a very strong list in a short time.
Clarkson for me.

 

[parrot]

Both pretty ordinary overall. Tough Call. I think Terry is a better coach than Clarkson, who seems to have little idea. But Terry has been instrumental in some truely monumental drafting clangers (e.g. Franklin oversight, trading top-10 superdraft pick, etc etc ) over the past several years that offsets this advantage.

 

[The Zebra]

Clarkson may end up OK - but what skill does it take to turnover a list and replenish it with draft picks? If the priority pick rule had been abolished a couple of years earlier Hawthorn wouldn't even have the shining light in Franklin.

People argue that Neil Craig inherited a good list, but that is said after the fact. At the time of his appointment, everyone was saying the Crows list was shocking - destined for bottom two. He came in and turned talented players around. Clarkson didn't even attempt that.

You can credit his list management if you want, but that would fall largely with the recruitment team and hardly reflects coaching ability.

Clarkson has very little runs on the board as a coach.

Wallace has coached teams to prelims and has 40% more wins after starting with a similiar list.

At this stage, the choice is so clear cut.

 

[Dale Didak #134]

I think that Wallace is a better coach - ie., I would prefer him coaching over Clarkson, but Clarkson has made some wonderful recruiting moves. How did you get first round picks for Jonathon Hay and Jade Rawlings?

 

[Heisenberg_]

I think that Wallace is a better coach - ie., I would prefer him coaching over Clarkson, but Clarkson has made some wonderful recruiting moves. How did you get first round picks for Jonathon Hay and Jade Rawlings?

Dean Laidley.
Thats how

 

[Richo83]

Clarkson may end up OK - but what skill does it take to turnover a list and replenish it with draft picks? If the priority pick rule had been abolished a couple of years earlier Hawthorn wouldn't even have the shining light in Franklin.

People argue that Neil Craig inherited a good list, but that is said after the fact. At the time of his appointment, everyone was saying the Crows list was shocking - destined for bottom two. He came in and turned talented players around. Clarkson didn't even attempt that.

You can credit his list management if you want, but that would fall largely with the recruitment team and hardly reflects coaching ability.

Clarkson has very little runs on the board as a coach.

Wallace has coached teams to prelims and has 40% more wins after starting with a similiar list.

At this stage, the choice is so clear cut.

Good points there. Clarkson has had little to work with. He knew that if he tried to scrounge out as many wins possible, they would be competitive, but always mediocre. Clarkson took a risk. If it works, he's a genuis. If he doesn't he is another Grant Thomas.

Thing about Adelaide, it had the players and the expierienced heads to make it to the finals, they just weren't playing well. Hawthorn is a creche ATM, and so getting them to play consistent quality football is harder.

But Wallace has been the better coach. I'm biased I know, but Wallace's record has been better and he's creating a faster side, which suits Sith Lord Demetriou's image of a non contact, fast netball football comp.

 

[bunsen burner]

Clarkson.

Won't win a flag but has done the right thing by the club and supporters by recruiting and playing kids. He was what Hawthorn needed. Solarium is a better coach but he would have come straight in got them performing - Terry doesn't believe in taking a step backwards and building the right foundation from the start. That's his flaw.

Give Solarium the right list and he'll win a flag. Problem is Solarium doesn't build strong enough foundations and risks coming up short like he did with the Bulldogs.

Give Clarkson the right list and I don't think he can win the big one. He'll assemble the list though.

 

[bunsen burner]

Clarkson is the right man to build the list. Matthews is the right man to bring home the flag.

 

[Big Scottknowsall]

Clarkson is in the worst echelon of coaches in the comp - and that is to be expected given his experience.

All this talk of being great at assembling a list....recruiting skill etc is a nonsence...any coach and their respective recruitment teams can "assemble" a list - particularly given Hawthorn's favourable picks in recent times. Until that becomes 4 points in the win column regularly, you only have opinions....

Wallace is the better coach - but even he is not in the top bracket that some people would suggest.

Laidley, Clarkson.......pathetic!
Wallace......better

 

[Richo83]

Clarkson.

Won't win a flag but has done the right thing by the club and supporters by recruiting and playing kids. He was what Hawthorn needed. Solarium is a better coach but he would have come straight in got them performing - Terry doesn't believe in taking a step backwards and building the right foundation from the start. That's his flaw.

Give Solarium the right list and he'll win a flag. Problem is Solarium doesn't build strong enough foundations and risks coming up short like he did with the Bulldogs.

Give Clarkson the right list and I don't think he can win the big one. He'll assemble the list though.

True about Clarkson. About Wallace, Wallace has been recruiting far more young players than our last four coaches, he is looking to development. Overall, Wallace has traded for more picks than players, and we have had 3 top ten picks during his rein, so I don't think he completely discounts the young players. Afterall, we are the fifth youngest team in the league last time I checked.

 

[tigerT]

Clarkson.

Won't win a flag but has done the right thing by the club and supporters by recruiting and playing kids. He was what Hawthorn needed. Solarium is a better coach but he would have come straight in got them performing - Terry doesn't believe in taking a step backwards and building the right foundation from the start. That's his flaw.

Give Solarium the right list and he'll win a flag. Problem is Solarium doesn't build strong enough foundations and risks coming up short like he did with the Bulldogs.

I think you need to stop paying so much attention to BF trolls and get your facts straight before making these type of comments.

Fact we played with one of the youngest onfield teams in 06. Every player bar 1 on our senior list got a gig in 06. The average age of our lists is negligible and the average age of our 22 which is the best indicator is even closer.

This rubbish that Wallace plays for now is absolute bollocks. He is rebuilding our list from the bottom up, have a look at the player turnover in his time at the club, however instead of tanking he believes in trying to instill a change in culture and winning games as well as teaching our youngsters through the astute recruitment of players that can add to this re Graham and Kingsley.

 

[Delidio]

Both pretty ordinary overall. Tough Call. I think Terry is a better coach than Clarkson, who seems to have little idea. But Terry has been instrumental in some truely monumental drafting clangers (e.g. Franklin oversight, trading top-10 superdraft pick, etc etc ) over the past several years that offsets this advantage.

just to humour you:
1. hawthorn passed on franklin with roughead (who hasnt shown much). it is still to early to judge if taking tambling was the major clanger many people say as it is only season 2. another two seasons and we will see what they are both mad of.
2. richmond would have taken riewoldt with 8 so got polak for zilch

 

[parrot]

...still to early to judge if taking tambling was the major clanger...

No, we've seen enough now. Clanger. And BTW Riewoldt was a 15-25 draft pick, never higher - be careful of Terry's spins. He compounded the problem by overlooking Sellar much to the Crows surprise. These draft stuff-ups will haunt the Tiges for many many years.

 

[weagles_fan]

Both are ordinary at best but Clarkson costs a lot less so I pick him.

 

[beaver fever]

No, we've seen enough now. Clanger. And BTW Riewoldt was a 15-25 draft pick, never higher - be careful of Terry's spins. He compounded the problem by overlooking Sellar much to the Crows surprise. These draft stuff-ups will haunt the Tiges for many many years.

Parrot you continue to say the same thing over and over and over again. Keep it up and you may actually start to believe what you are writing.

 

[tigerT]

No, we've seen enough now. Clanger. And BTW Riewoldt was a 15-25 draft pick, never higher - be careful of Terry's spins. He compounded the problem by overlooking Sellar much to the Crows surprise. These draft stuff-ups will haunt the Tiges for many many years.

says BF's biggest sh.it spinner...

LOL I nearly fell off the chair at that one

Pot, kettle, black,

 

[dipper86]

Clarkson is in the worst echelon of coaches in the comp - and that is to be expected given his experience.

All this talk of being great at assembling a list....recruiting skill etc is a nonsence...any coach and their respective recruitment teams can "assemble" a list - particularly given Hawthorn's favourable picks in recent times. Until that becomes 4 points in the win column regularly, you only have opinions....

Wallace is the better coach - but even he is not in the top bracket that some people would suggest.

Laidley, Clarkson.......pathetic!
Wallace......better

He currently has a 3 and one record over Sheedy.

Nice i know.

 

[lids2004roar]

Why is list management a major part of this debate??

Sure, coaches have the final say in drafting decisions but it's the recruiting guys who dig for their exceptional level of detail on the draftees. They inform the coaches and have the biggest influence and the biggest say on that club's list.

This poll should be judged on coaching ability, not the ability to give permission for other people to draft a particular player.

If Greg Miller wanted to draft someone, he will. It would not be hard for an expert to convince Wallace why Riewoldt has more upside than Sellar.



Btw you are crazy if you think Clarkson is great at list management!! Just because he was given a truck load of priority picks and first round draft picks does not make him the better list builder.

As for drafting decisions.... they were LEFT with Franklin, they didn't choose him over Tambling or anything and that's a fact. They've just had so many shots at the best draftees they were bound to end up with a load of young talent. Don't credit Clarkson for "list building skills"

You don't need much skill to say "Thorp will be a good pick!" or "wow Lewis might be good"

 

[lids2004roar]

Clarkson is the right man to build the list.

Why?

Because he losses matches and gets lots of good picks?

What kind of great drafting decisions has he made?

 

[bunsen burner]

I think you need to stop paying so much attention to BF trolls and get your facts straight before making these type of comments.

Fact we played with one of the youngest onfield teams in 06. Every player bar 1 on our senior list got a gig in 06. The average age of our lists is negligible and the average age of our 22 which is the best indicator is even closer.

This rubbish that Wallace plays for now is absolute bollocks. He is rebuilding our list from the bottom up, have a look at the player turnover in his time at the club, however instead of tanking he believes in trying to instill a change in culture and winning games as well as teaching our youngsters through the astute recruitment of players that can add to this re Graham and Kingsley.

tissue?

 

[bunsen burner]

Why?

Because he losses matches and gets lots of good picks?

yep.

 

[parrot]

Why is list management a major part of this debate??..

Well usually it wouldn't be a factor, but Terry has been instrumental in some major recent drafting bungles at Tigerland, and it therefore needs to be factored in to his overall performance.

 

[lids2004roar]

Well usually it wouldn't be a factor, but Terry has been instrumental in some major recent drafting bungles at Tigerland, and it therefore needs to be factored in to his overall performance.

Blame Greg Miller not Wallace. Terry just agreed with GM's and FJ's decision.

That was my whole point.

Couldn't you interpret that?

Really??


It is way too early to know if they made any major mistakes yet, eg; look how great Kayne Pettifer is turning out, you would have thought he was a dud 2 years ago.