Opinion Climate change

[Lawnchair Larry]

With petrol rumoured to go to $2.35/L today our public transport systems have no capacity to hybridise.
Generally public transport gets you 9/10 of the way to your destination. It's the other 1/10 of the journey that is a huge disincentive to using public systems.
Yet with changing times there are, for example, an abundance of e-bikes and e-scooters, some of which have a range of 80km these days b4 recharge. Public transport cannot cope with people who want to transport themselves to final destinations using these newer transport modes.
Being a conventional bike rider, I see huge uptake of ebikes as I ride around, which are ideal for flat--as-a-tack Adelaide.
We need buses and trains to cope with this uptake.
A return to the olde time baggage compartment on trains, for example, in a more modern format:

The task is a bit more difficult for buses. Perhaps a return to the "double-deckers", with more room for hybrid transport on the lower deck?

 

[Del165198]

With petrol rumoured to go to $2.35/L today our public transport systems have no capacity to hybridise.
Generally public transport gets you 9/10 of the way to your destination. It's the other 1/10 of the journey that is a huge disincentive to using public systems.
Yet with changing times there are, for example, an abundance of e-bikes and e-scooters, some of which have a range of 80km these days b4 recharge. Public transport cannot cope with people who want to transport themselves to final destinations using these newer transport modes.
Being a conventional bike rider, I see huge uptake of ebikes as I ride around, which are ideal for flat--as-a-tack Adelaide.
We need buses and trains to cope with this uptake.
A return to the olde time baggage compartment on trains, for example, in a more modern format:
View attachment 1437093
The task is a bit more difficult for buses. Perhaps a return to the "double-deckers", with more room for hybrid transport on the lower deck?

Solution: hoverboards. Small enough to carry on board

 

[backtozero]

After a marathon negotiation session, the 27 countries of the European Union have agreed to effectively ban the sale of new cars and vans powered by petrol and diesel engines by 2035.
The agreement, reached at around 2am European time, sets the negotiating position between the EU member states with the European Commission and EU Parliament.
The European Council — a body consisting of the head of government of each EU member nation — has agreed “to introduce a 100 per cent CO2 emissions reduction target by 2035 for new cars and vans”.
It’s likely the final text of laws regarding the phase out of new ICE vehicle sales is still some months away.

EU countries agree to ban new ICE cars by 2035

Europe has moved another step closer to banning the sale of new cars and vans with internal combustion engines from 2035.

www.carexpert.com.au

 

[edgie]

No wonder Petrol prices are going mad. It’s the last squeeze. Let’s hope they keep that nuclear power pumping out.


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[Lawnchair Larry]

Conversion to EV is too slow for current problems.
A forgotten player is biodiesel. Its substitution or partial substitution would be a much faster resolution.
We went through a phase where this was a serious contender, but it fell away.
It's benefits, particularly from the perspective of climate and plant sources of biodiesel, lie with the fact that plants fix CO2 and burning it recreates CO2. A circular argument then exists, particularly if the energy required to convert fats (triglycerides) to biodiesel (fatty acid methyl esters or FAME) comes from solar or renewables in general.
About 14 years ago the tipping point for biodiesel to economically replace or partially substitute for petrol was 0.90c/L. If those 14 years are compounded at say 3% inflation then the current tipping point would be around $1.40/L.
There are some issues with biodiesel, although they are not insurmountable:
1. Seals in the current fuel train are susceptible to biodiesel. They swell and fail. Replacement with suitable materials is required. This is because biodiesel has different solvent properties to petrol, caused by one end of the biodiesel molecule being very different to petrol. I believe this problem has been resolved, but it's awkward to do a mass replacement. Still it's possible.
2. Animal fats can also be used but they suffer from having a lot of what's called saturated fats. When converted to biodiesel they tend to precipitate at temperatures around 10 - 12C, causing filter blockages in the fuel train. This can be partially resolved by "winterisation" where the biodiesel is preconditioned and filtered at low temperatures before sale as fuel. There are also chemical means of doung the same thing. In general chicken fat > pork fat > beef fat as the original source.
One source of fats requiring consideration are those fats that remain undigested in our sewers - including fatbergs. There remain big possibilities for solving multiple problems here.
3. Microalgae were once viewed as a plausible alternative source of fats. They still are on the table in terms of potential. But it turns out that triglyceride production here has mainly green algae as the source. They require photosynthesis, so you generally require larger tracts of land filled with water not more than 1m deep. It means you have to process a lot of water to harvest the relatively small amount of microalgae. There are alternatives called tube reactors - narrow bore glass/ plastic tubing with contents pumped around the tubing - that can be used in combination with artifical irradiation to promote production. Useful providing there is no fouling of the glass.
The cell wall of microalgae is tough and difficult to break to release the fats - requiring a lot of energy. You also need to feed the microalgae as an additional expense. The system is in need of genetic modification, requiring further development.

Blends of petrol and biodiesel have been employed, often at low levels of biodiesel (eg 90/10 mixes). This will not be enough to lower the price of fuel. You would think that blends beyond 50/50 would need to be secured to make a price difference for consumers.
I think it's possible to resurrect biodiesel, and on a faster time frame than relying on the transition to EV.

 

[Festerz]

With petrol rumoured to go to $2.35/L today our public transport systems have no capacity to hybridise.
Generally public transport gets you 9/10 of the way to your destination. It's the other 1/10 of the journey that is a huge disincentive to using public systems.
Yet with changing times there are, for example, an abundance of e-bikes and e-scooters, some of which have a range of 80km these days b4 recharge. Public transport cannot cope with people who want to transport themselves to final destinations using these newer transport modes.
Being a conventional bike rider, I see huge uptake of ebikes as I ride around, which are ideal for flat--as-a-tack Adelaide.
We need buses and trains to cope with this uptake.
A return to the olde time baggage compartment on trains, for example, in a more modern format:
View attachment 1437093
The task is a bit more difficult for buses. Perhaps a return to the "double-deckers", with more room for hybrid transport on the lower deck?

Excellent point.

And as a frequent traveller to US I also wonder why we have no buses with bike racks like they do over there and in other countries. Very easy and cheap to retrofit to existing buses.

ACRTA Bike Racks - Allen County RTA

Learn how to use the bus bike racks and integrate cycling with your transit commute through Allen County.

www.acrta.com

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Excellent point.

And as a frequent traveller to US I also wonder why we have no buses with bike racks like they do over there and in other countries. Very easy and cheap to retrofit to existing buses.

ACRTA Bike Racks - Allen County RTA

Learn how to use the bus bike racks and integrate cycling with your transit commute through Allen County.

www.acrta.com

They're in Australia. I'm sure I'd seen them in Brisbane too but a brief search says I might be wrong (or at least not on public transport).

 

[backtozero]

Dutch farmers block food warehouses over new environmental rules

Fishers block ports in a show of support for farmers who blockaded supermarket distribution centres over new rules.

www.aljazeera.com

Dutch farmers block food warehouses over new environmental rules​

Farmers in the Netherlands have blockaded supermarket distribution centres in continuing protests against new environmental rules on nitrogen emissions that are likely to put many of them out of business.

Also on Monday, farmers used tractors and large bales of hay to block entrances to the supermarket distribution centres, as the association of food traders warned of supply bottlenecks.

The action had been announced in advance, with farmers calling for “the entire country to be paralysed”.

Airports had also made preparation for blockades on access roads. Traffic along most of the country’s dense road network was reported to be normal.
Police said they would intervene if demonstrators moved to block access to Schiphol international airport near Amsterdam.

Over recent weeks, Dutch farmers have engaged in occasionally violent protests against environmental rules aimed at cutting back nitrogen emissions.
While other sectors, including construction, have also been hit, measures to curb the ammonia generated by livestock farming are a significant part of government plans.
Nitrogen emissions are to be cut by more than 70 percent in areas close to nature conservation areas. According to government estimates, this could lead to the shutting down of about 30 percent of livestock farms.

 

[Janus]

EU Parliament has voted to include nuclear and natural gas to the EU taxonomy for sustainable investments. Of course the environmentalists call this a dereliction of their duty.

 

[Festerz]

Real scientists. Real analysis. Real Facts.

https://www.csiro.au/en/news/News-releases/2022/GenCost-2022

 

[Del165198]

I think people want nuclear purely to piss off greenies. They dont want to admit they were wrong and should have invested more heavily in renewables years ago

 

[edgie]

If makes zero sense for Australia to not use a single ounce of it's vast uranium reserves to help itself

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[Del165198]

If makes zero sense for Australia to not use a single ounce of it's vast uranium reserves to help itself

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So you want us to generate the most expensive power in the world, with an industry that doesn't exist, and a start up time of more than 20 years? Stop living the mad Max fantasy, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[edgie]

So you want us to generate the most expensive power in the world, with an industry that doesn't exist, and a start up time of more than 20 years? Stop living the mad Max fantasy, it ain't gonna happen.

No. I acknowledge it's no longer feasible to start now in Australia.

I also acknowledge it was a mistake to not get in to the game 60 years ago, 50 years ago, 40, 30...

And I acknowledge nuclear bed wetters are terribly frightened people who need help.

We're gonna rape the land and get nothing back for except lined pockets for stakeholders. The uranium mining is always going to happen. There's more to it than pissing off greenies. Only existing to pillage a finite resource for the sustainable benefit of other countries is incredibly not a green thing to do.

But what do you reckon of this?

South Korea bets on nuclear power, restarting construction on two reactors | CNN

South Korea, one of the world's most fossil fuel-reliant economies, is re-embracing nuclear energy, with the government announcing Tuesday it will restart construction on two nuclear reactors and extend the life of those already in operation.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Del165198]

No. I acknowledge it's no longer feasible to start now in Australia.

I also acknowledge it was a mistake to not get in to the game 60 years ago, 50 years ago, 40, 30...

And I acknowledge nuclear bed wetters are terribly frightened people who need help.

We're gonna rape the land and get nothing back for except lined pockets for stakeholders.

But what do you reckon of this?

South Korea bets on nuclear power, restarting construction on two reactors | CNN

South Korea, one of the world's most fossil fuel-reliant economies, is re-embracing nuclear energy, with the government announcing Tuesday it will restart construction on two nuclear reactors and extend the life of those already in operation.

edition.cnn.com

Sounds like it might be a good option for South Korea?

Rightly or wrongly, public opinion has always been against nuclear in Australia.

NIMBYism is massive here and no one wants to live next to one. If you put it out in the middle of nowhere you massively increase costs, plus will have land rights issues.

Geologically Australia is very stable so we'd probably be one of the least at risk places to have adopted it.

But we didn't. Why aren't you half as passionate about proper investment in advanced renewable technologies?

You've got a stiff for nuclear and it's unsettling

 

[edgie]

Sounds like it might be a good option for South Korea?

Rightly or wrongly, public opinion has always been against nuclear in Australia.

NIMBYism is massive here and no one wants to live next to one. If you put it out in the middle of nowhere you massively increase costs, plus will have land rights issues.

Geologically Australia is very stable so we'd probably be one of the least at risk places to have adopted it.

But we didn't. Why aren't you half as passionate about proper investment in advanced renewable technologies?

You've got a stiff for nuclear and it's unsettling

I've got a stiff for exposing ****s ups in the past and the people who's irrational attitudes and fears ****ed it up, in some kind of naïve hope that we don't **** up again, learn from it, and miss the boat again next time.

Do you think it was the right decision to keep relying on fossil fuels in the last 40 years?

I've lived across the road from a lead dump all my life, no nimby boomers have a problem with that, I would gladly put my hand up to live next door to the nuclear power plant. Put them cooling towers in my backyard mate I think they're a nice architectural feature.

 

[Del165198]

Do you think it was the right decision to keep relying on fossil fuels in the last 40 years?

Nope, but aren't you only like 30 years old? The world's attitude on nuclear post Chernobyl fundamentally changed..

It would never have got off the ground late 80s, early 90s (I mean it still wouldn't now..)

 

[edgie]

Nope, but aren't you only like 30 years old? The world's attitude on nuclear post Chernobyl fundamentally changed..

It would never have got off the ground late 80s, early 90s (I mean it still wouldn't now..)

Hey I get equally wound up over decisions Holden made 50 years ago. Don't repeat mistakes. Don't deny them.

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[Lawnchair Larry]

While it is true that sunlight and wind cannot be coralled by private enterprise, there are cases where the most favourable sites can be selectively comandeered by, in particular, international vested interests.
This may be geographical or man made (e.g. proximity to existing transmission lines) with respect to most favoured sites.
I see this as an issue for industrial supply rather than domestic.
In the future I see us as a world wide supplier of energy - exemplified now by the Forrest/ Cannon - Brooke plan to export green energy by cable to Singapore.
On the whole this is a good thing.
But safeguards in supply to Australian industry is an imperative.
We do not want to duplicate with green energy precisely the same situation that has arisen with gas supply.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Mmm

 

[Festerz]

Heatwave: National emergency declared after UK's first red extreme heat warning

Trains could be disrupted and schools are closing early as temperatures could hit 40C (104F).

www.bbc.com

Records are crashing in Europe as a bout of exceptional heat and humidity brings dangerous conditions, prompting weather alerts far and wide across Britain, France, Spain and Portugal. Temperatures have surged above 43 Celsius over the Iberian Peninsula, and the United Kingdom is forecast to see its hottest temperature ever recorded early next week.

Red “extreme” heat warnings have been hoisted in parts of the U.K. for the first time on record. Britain’s Met Office is describing the situation as a national emergency warning that the heat will have “widespread impacts on people and infrastructure.”




It is a blend of amusement and tragedy to go back to the beginning of this thread (2012) and see the views of posters arguing against the notion of man made climate change and the impact it will have on our world.

What is worse is to realise that in 2022 there are still politicians in our Federal And State Parliaments who hold the same views.

 

[Del165198]

Mmm

that looks suspiciously like right wing trolling to make the greens seem like extremists

The Greens leader, Adam Bandt, has signalled his party is open to backing the government’s 43% emissions reduction target, but says there are “problems” with the bill as he digs in on his demand that new coal and gas projects be banned. “Our approach is to say to government, ‘it’s good that we’re finally taking action on climate but we need to do better’,” he said.

the fact is we're a mile behind the 8 ball because the coalition spent the last decade pissing into the wind and doing absolutely **** all about energy security other than flinging more money at fossil fuels.

a transition (particularly a very rapid one) to renewables is gonna hurt, no one ever said it wasn't.

the stakes are massive though and are way bigger than bullshit 4 year election cycles. approving new coal mines is a decision which has decades long implications.

we've got a massive mining industry and would be better served using our abundant mineral wealth producing shit that will be useful for renewable energy.

with the caveat that we shouldn't be ****ing bulldozing what's remaining of our forests in order to do it.

that's not extremism, it's just common sense

 

[Lawnchair Larry]

They're in Australia. I'm sure I'd seen them in Brisbane too but a brief search says I might be wrong (or at least not on public transport).

People are now beginning to assess how these newer transport modes (ebikes/ escooters) can lace into already developed transport structures:

Safety concerns ahead of NSW trial of electric scooter rentals

Safety concerns ahead of NSW trial of electric scooter rentals

Follow the latest news headlines from Australia's most trusted source. Read in-depth expert analysis and watch live coverage on ABC News.

www.abc.net.au

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Del165198]

To summarise:

The liberals are colossal campaigners and won't be satisfied until every last tree is chopped down, every last river has dried up and every last bit of rock has been dug up and we're leaving in a post apocalyptic wasteland.