Coach Grumpy

[BStaff17]

Actually, no. It was seemingly the change in approach that resulted in the T20 World Cup success. Langer was allegedly told to keep at a distance from the team, and was absent from the training sessions. The change in morale was plain to see, and although I respect Khawaja and Head for coming to Langer's defence, they were notably absent from those two tours.

Khawaja basically showed in the TEST doco on Amazon what Langer's flaws were as well back in 2018 when he told him everyone was on eggshells.

 

[Stottzy]

Going off that statement, it clearly has everything to do with a few players (from what I've heard the bowling squad) not able to cope with some hard truths received from Langer. How can you say that his intensity and passion drove a better team culture and better standards, then support a change of coach. Absolutely farcical from Cummins.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Well what should he say?

"Members of the team reckons Langer is a campaigner"

How do you reckon that would pan out? And realistically what would it achieve going forward rather than creating morw controversy and distractions?

u can easily say you dont like his style of coaching.

not just make up some bullshit excuse.

 

[conrad_437]

some posters in here seem like bigger sooks than the players.

That's my biggest takeaway from this thread.

If a clear portion of the playing group have an issue with Langer the coach, then why keep him on? Call them 'soft' all you like, a team is not going to perform well under acrimony.

What good is having Cummins reveal all about what has transpired between the players and Langer? That will only serve to be detrimental to him and the team's relationship. Read about it in an autobiography in 10 years if you want to. Right now Cummins has done the right thing in being diplomatic. If he wasn't you'd either call him a liar or a backstabber anyway.

 

[SSwans2011]

u can easily say you dont like his style of coaching.

not just make up some bullshit excuse.

That's pretty much exactly what he said. He just said it in a more flattering and diplomatic way, which is how he should approach this.

 

[eltrain]

Langers blood is on Scotty Cummins' hands

Shame on you!

Bloody Scotty Cummings!

 

[JackOutback]

If a clear portion of the playing group have an issue with Langer the coach, then why keep him on?

Because the best decision is not always the easiest one. We've seen what happens when the discipline within the team flags, many of the people responsible for Australian cricket's lowest point in modern times are the very ones guiding this decision. Everyone wants the team to succeed, people just have different ideas on which direction to take. I don't know if Langer's the best person for the job, but I do know the reason he's leaving are not the best reasons.

 

[Westend]

There will be accountability by whoever takes over. They just won't have a dummy spit over every little minor thing that happens.

As pat said JL was the coach we needed 4 years ago but not the coach we need now.

And the players won't go down the bad behaviour like sandpaper sh*t again. Who would want to go through what Smith and Warner went through.

bancroft ??

 

[Boston tiger]

Not a good statement from Cummins. No issues with the intensity and need a skills-based coach despite JL being in the job fit four years and finishing by winning the T20 cup (against the odds, mind you) and the Ashes. Not buying it.

As someone said above, international cricketers are about as close to a finished product you can get and know how to perform at the elite level. What is required from a coach is someone to develop a game plan and keep the players out of their own heads. If JL was not capable of doing either then why did he have a job for four years?

It was hard enough getting rid of him after 4 years. Imagine the outcry if they tried to terminate his contract before it was up.
Lesson here is don’t make a an ex Test player coach especially one that has had a good career because getting rid of them is hard work if saga is anything to go by.

 

[deanc]

some posters in here seem like bigger sooks than the players.

Oh well, looks like the romance with perfect Pat is over - gee that was quick, just one test series which we won 4-0..!

Accordingly normal service has resumed for those pursing Australia's favourite pastime of sticking the boot into the Test skipper.

From historic celebrated appointment to complete muppet in 2 months! Ah, the mysterious nuances of our modern enlightened society..?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

That's pretty much exactly what he said. He just said it in a more flattering and diplomatic way, which is how he should approach this.

no. he didn't, you clearly didn't read his statement.

He said he had no issues with his coaching style but wanted a coach that teaches skills, exactly what the line coaches does and is not what a head coach should do.

buy into the bullshit all you want. Cause thats what it is.

 

[SSwans2011]

no. he didn't, you clearly didn't read his statement.

He said he had no issues with his coaching style

Where did he say that in his statement?

 

[Nuggetz]

Cummins literally said they want a more collaborative approach. They don't want a dominating hands on coach anymore, i.e. Langer. He was perfect for the situation Cricket Aus found themselves in the post ball tampering period where they needed a tough leader and someone intense about holding high standards etc since the team was immature and lacking leadership.

Guess what, the team has evolved and players have become more mature and developed. They want to have more of an input and gain experience in making their own decisions rather than being told what to do. Langer isn't the appropriate coach for this playing group and we saw that with the results once he took a more backseat role.

The players and CA were likely not confident he could maintain his new backseat role and would revert back to his intense hands on approach. Especially considering the Bubble lifestyle they've experienced for the last few years, Langer has become a burden on the players/support staff. They don't want to deal with his intensity anymore, especially on overseas tours like Pakistan, which is fair enough.

The playing group isn't the same one 4 years ago, they've grown and they have every right to want a coach that allows more freedoms in decision making, whether that be bowling/batting/fielding plans etc. Langer is suited to certain environments and situations, the environment and situation isn't appropriate for his skills anymore. This is entirely okay, the ball tampering scandal showed everyone that results aren't everything.

Who knows if a more collaborative approach will be successful in the future, early signs are it'll be good (won the t20 wc and ashes). Langer is still a great bloke and I'm sure their is immense respect for him as an individual and what he's achieved. If anything clearly CA have communicated poorly with Langer and mismanaged the optic of this process.

 

[SSwans2011]

Cummins literally said they want a more collaborative approach. They don't want a dominating hands on coach anymore, i.e. Langer. He was perfect for the situation Cricket Aus found themselves in the post ball tampering period where they needed a tough leader and someone intense about holding high standards etc since the team was immature and lacking leadership.

Guess what, the team has evolved and players have become more mature and developed. They want to have more of an input and gain experience in making their own decisions rather than being told what to do. Langer isn't the appropriate coach for this playing group and we saw that with the results once he took a more backseat role.

The players and CA were likely not confident he could maintain his new backseat role and would revert back to his intense hands on approach. Especially considering the Bubble lifestyle they've experienced for the last few years, Langer has become a burden on the players/support staff. They don't want to deal with his intensity anymore, especially on overseas tours like Pakistan, which is fair enough.

The playing group isn't the same one 4 years ago, they've grown and they have every right to want a coach that allows more freedoms in decision making, whether that be bowling/batting/fielding plans etc. Langer is suited to certain environments and situations, the environment and situation isn't appropriate for his skills anymore. This is entirely okay, the ball tampering scandal showed everyone that results aren't everything.

Who knows if a more collaborative approach will be successful in the future, early signs are it'll be good (won the t20 wc and ashes). Langer is still a great bloke and I'm sure their is immense respect for him as an individual and what he's achieved. If anything clearly CA have communicated poorly with Langer and mismanaged the optic of this process.

Exactly. IMO he made the reasons abundantly clear in the statement and people are just looking for a reason to be angry because they disagree with the decision.

 

[JackOutback]

Cummins literally said they want a more collaborative approach. They don't want a dominating hands on coach anymore, i.e. Langer. He was perfect for the situation Cricket Aus found themselves in the post ball tampering period where they needed a tough leader and someone intense about holding high standards etc since the team was immature and lacking leadership.

Guess what, the team has evolved and players have become more mature and developed. They want to have more of an input and gain experience in making their own decisions rather than being told what to do. Langer isn't the appropriate coach for this playing group and we saw that with the results once he took a more backseat role.

The players and CA were likely not confident he could maintain his new backseat role and would revert back to his intense hands on approach. Especially considering the Bubble lifestyle they've experienced for the last few years, Langer has become a burden on the players/support staff. They don't want to deal with his intensity anymore, especially on overseas tours like Pakistan, which is fair enough.

The playing group isn't the same one 4 years ago, they've grown and they have every right to want a coach that allows more freedoms in decision making, whether that be bowling/batting/fielding plans etc. Langer is suited to certain environments and situations, the environment and situation isn't appropriate for his skills anymore. This is entirely okay, the ball tampering scandal showed everyone that results aren't everything.

Who knows if a more collaborative approach will be successful in the future, early signs are it'll be good (won the t20 wc and ashes). Langer is still a great bloke and I'm sure their is immense respect for him as an individual and what he's achieved. If anything clearly CA have communicated poorly with Langer and mismanaged the optic of this process.

I don't think the people responsible for the situation Langer was brought in to address would be best placed to determine that the situation no longer needs to be addressed. I think people would be far more tolerant of the decision if CA had simply made that decision themselves, but the perception is that a group of players (rumoured, notably, to be Smith, Warner and the bowling group, all up to their necks in the sandpaper affair) have driven this decision.

 

[Belnakor]

The playing group isn't the same one 4 years ago, they've grown and they have every right to want a coach that allows more freedoms in decision making, whether that be bowling/batting/fielding plans etc. Langer is suited to certain environments and situations, the environment and situation isn't appropriate for his skills anymore. This is entirely okay, the ball tampering scandal showed everyone that results aren't everything.

bang on. lets not forget its a 4 year contract too.

If you think about our great teams, the Waugh era - do you think guys like Warne/Bevan/Mcgrath would have tolerated a Langer?

 

[SSwans2011]

I don't think the people responsible for the situation Langer was brought in to address would be best placed to determine that the situation no longer needs to be addressed. I think people would be far more tolerant of the decision if CA had simply made that decision themselves, but the perception is that a group of players (rumoured, notably, to be Smith, Warner and the bowling group, all up to their necks in the sandpaper affair) have driven this decision.

But surely the answer isn't to continuing forcing an unliked coach on the playing group four years on from the saga.

If this is the conclusion after we have just won a T20 World Cup and The Ashes, difficult subcontinent tours with a disaffected touring group and a coach that's just signed a new deal could be disastrous more long-term.

 

[conrad_437]

Because the best decision is not always the easiest one. We've seen what happens when the discipline within the team flags, many of the people responsible for Australian cricket's lowest point in modern times are the very ones guiding this decision. Everyone wants the team to succeed, people just have different ideas on which direction to take. I don't know if Langer's the best person for the job, but I do know the reason he's leaving are not the best reasons.

You're right, but it's not as if Langer walked into the job six months ago and the players haven't even entertained his coaching style. Clearly, it's worked in some respects, and in others failed. Four years is long enough for us, the cricketing public, to give the players a break and let them be the judges on what they feel is best for their future.

The most important part of the Australian cricket team is the players. That's not to say they're entitled to what they want. But the clear sentiment among the group is that currently, Langer isn't the right man for the job. He succeeded in regaining a fair portion of Australia's trust after Sandpapergate. But if the players don't feel that they, as a team, can progress under Langer, then it's quite clear that improvement will be hard to come by.

 

[Nuggetz]

I don't think the people responsible for the situation Langer was brought in to address would be best placed to determine that the situation no longer needs to be addressed. I think people would be far more tolerant of the decision if CA had simply made that decision themselves, but the perception is that a group of players (rumoured, notably, to be Smith, Warner and the bowling group, all up to their necks in the sandpaper affair) have driven this decision.

Well it's CA responsibility to get feedback from the playing group, the feedback was obviously not in favour of JL continuing as coach. Any decent organisation gets feedback from staff regarding management. The players didn't have finality of say in the decision but they did have an input and rightly so, if CA didn't get feedback from the players then how could they be expected to undertake a thorough process? CA did make the decision themselves but rightly sought feedback from those individuals who had a working relationship with JL.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

That's my biggest takeaway from this thread.

If a clear portion of the playing group have an issue with Langer the coach, then why keep him on? Call them 'soft' all you like, a team is not going to perform well under acrimony.

What good is having Cummins reveal all about what has transpired between the players and Langer? That will only serve to be detrimental to him and the team's relationship. Read about it in an autobiography in 10 years if you want to. Right now Cummins has done the right thing in being diplomatic. If he wasn't you'd either call him a liar or a backstabber anyway.

No to the last sentence we would call him honest and thats the most important quality. Honestly pats statement today was so full of crafted PR that it belonged in a labor/liberal campaign speech. Its disappointing to see that he clearly doesnt get it-hopefully the public are not that stupid.

 

[SSwans2011]

Honestly pats statement today was so full of crafted PR that it belonged in a labor/liberal campaign speech.

So like all statements from major sports stars ever?

 

[Westend]

From bevan

Former Australian batter Michael Bevan posted: “Good on Cummins for coming out and addressing the elephant in the room. For me it was never about sticking up for mates but having respect for a coach that was forced to resign when the team was ranked No 1 in Tests, No 3 in ODI and current T20 World champions.

“No player, coach or person would accept this treatment or believe it was fair and reasonable if they were placed in a similar circumstance with similar results. I am still unclear and confused as to how if one coach helps gets you to the above results they cannot continue.

“To do so. My major gripe being the next coach coming in knows he needs to toe the player line otherwise he is gone – this doesn’t seem beneficial to me. In any case my rants have finished. Aus has some good coaches to take over and very talented team — good luck to all.”

pretty much sums it up

 

[SSwans2011]

From bevan

Former Australian batter Michael Bevan posted: “Good on Cummins for coming out and addressing the elephant in the room. For me it was never about sticking up for mates but having respect for a coach that was forced to resign when the team was ranked No 1 in Tests, No 3 in ODI and current T20 World champions.

“No player, coach or person would accept this treatment or believe it was fair and reasonable if they were placed in a similar circumstance with similar results. I am still unclear and confused as to how if one coach helps gets you to the above results they cannot continue.

“To do so. My major gripe being the next coach coming in knows he needs to toe the player line otherwise he is gone – this doesn’t seem beneficial to me. In any case my rants have finished. Aus has some good coaches to take over and very talented team — good luck to all.”

pretty much sums it up

Bevan's two cents are worth as much as any player that played with Langer but has nothing to do with the current squad. Zilch.

 

[conrad_437]

No to the last sentence we would call him honest and thats the most important quality. Honestly pats statement today was so full of crafted PR that it belonged in a labor/liberal campaign speech. Its disappointing to see that he clearly doesnt get it-hopefully the public are not that stupid.

Pat is doing exactly what a good captain is doing right now and protecting his players. If you want to criticise him for being 'dishonest', go for your life. Pat has no obligation to give details to the broader Australian public over the relationship between him, his coach and the players. That is an in-house issue and should remain that way. He never lied in the lead up to Langer's resignation, he just gave diplomatic answers, which is exactly what he should have done.

I never understand why people believe we are entitled to all these intimate details of what goes on behind closed doors. No crimes are being committed, people just want gossip and something to criticise/be outraged over.

 

[Westend]

Bevan's two cents are worth as much as any player that played with Langer but has nothing to do with the current squad. Zilch.

more disrespect for past players this thread is full of it