Test Surely the Cummins/McDonald captain/coach setup is the worst in Australian Test history

[frankrizzo]

To make it very simple for you the only thing that's going to him the best coach ever title is wins in England and India.

So right now you consider john buchanan our greatest ever coach?

Wins in india england 3 world cup wins and champions trophy plus two separate 16 game test win streaks and a 21 game odi streak, if we judge coaches purely by things like how much did they win and where did they win and dont take into account the quality of players they had then buchanan is so far ahead of the rest that its no contest.

 

[yabsy]

This Australian team is obviously a happy team - I guess winning will have that effect, but every member of the team knows his role, and does it very well. I'm looking forward to the NZ tour, which will be a proper test for the Aussies.

Will it be a test though? Australia last lost a test match in NZ 31 years ago.

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[PhatBoy]

Will it be a test though? Australia last lost a test match in NZ 31 years ago.

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It should be but I suspect it won’t.
NZ have inexplicably gone from winning the WTC and subsequently having England at their mercy away from home to blowing that series completely, halving their England series at home, losing a test at home to Bangladesh and not looking remotely like the side the were two years ago.

 

[yabsy]

It should be but I suspect it won’t.
NZ have inexplicably gone from winning the WTC and subsequently having England at their mercy away from home to blowing that series completely, halving their England series at home, losing a test at home to Bangladesh and not looking remotely like the side the were two years ago.

Agreed, they've really fallen away since that WTC win...Maybe it's time for Colin de Grandhomme to reverse his retirement

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[HirdsTheWord]

So right now you consider john buchanan our greatest ever coach?

Wins in india england 3 world cup wins and champions trophy plus two separate 16 game test win streaks and a 21 game odi streak, if we judge coaches purely by things like how much did they win and where did they win and dont take into account the quality of players they had then buchanan is so far ahead of the rest that its no contest.

What else would you suggest makes a coach the greatest? Apart from the statistics?

Don Bradman isn't considered the best test batsmen ever because he was a good bloke. It's because his test avg is 99.94 which is the highest over a considerable sample size.

Stats matter most IMO.

 

[frankrizzo]

What else would you suggest makes a coach the greatest? Apart from the statistics?

Don Bradman isn't considered the best test batsmen ever because he was a good bloke. It's because his test avg is 99.94 which is the highest over a considerable sample size.

Stats matter most IMO.

Bob simpson, context matters with coaches not just results i do think buchanan is under rated by many mostly due to comments from ones like warne but i think simpson changed our side more than any other coach has.

 

[PhatBoy]

What else would you suggest makes a coach the greatest? Apart from the statistics?

Don Bradman isn't considered the best test batsmen ever because he was a good bloke. It's because his test avg is 99.94 which is the highest over a considerable sample size.

Stats matter most IMO.

Multiple things can make a coach the greatest.

Stats will always matter but who’s had a harder job, the guy with a top 7 of batsmen averaging 40-50 and an attack of bowlers averaging in the 20s, or the guy who’s got 3 world class batsmen, 3 others who are decent, a mediocre keeper batsman, a couple of gun bowlers and two okay ones, for example?

I would say a coach taking the recent NZ team to a world test championship for example has done more than a coach taking India, had they won the last edition, even though they would both have the same amount of physical achievement.

 

[DaRick]

Bob simpson, context matters with coaches not just results i do think buchanan is under rated by many mostly due to comments from ones like warne but i think simpson changed our side more than any other coach has.

The difficulty I have with someone like Buchanan is that he's a theorist, not a technician or mentor.

That makes him perfect for a strong side that can generally take care of itself (QLD 1994/95 + AUS 1999-2007), because his wacky, left-field theories at worst don't hurt, and at best give the side an edge.

But if your side is in transition or needs help with basic skills (e.g. this PAK team), he's not your guy. Simpson is.

 

[PhatBoy]

The difficulty I have with someone like Buchanan is that he's a theorist, not a technician or mentor.

That makes him perfect for a strong side that can generally take care of itself (QLD 1994/95 + AUS 1999-2007), because his wacky, left-field theories at worst don't hurt, and at best give the side an edge.

But if your side is in transition or needs help with basic skills (e.g. this PAK team), he's not your guy. Simpson is.

On the contrary, I think he could really help a team like Pakistan BUT, he would need support staff around him to help them work on things like their fielding.

I said during the Perth test that one of the most striking things that was noticeable about Pakistan’s bowling was that they bowled I would suggest at least as many balls as Australia did which tested the batsmen or drew mis-hits or false shots. It’s what happened in between that was of a huge difference and quite clearly there had been nowhere near enough homework and preparation done into where they needed to be operating on a regular basis.

Batting I think is something that you probably can’t teach as much from a calculator or an analytical perspective but I think a coach like Buchanan could definitely play a role in helping teams like Pakistan provided that the other staff can fill the gaps that he has no interest in