Is David Warner the worst home-ground bully ever?

[Teen Wolf]

He averages 49.6 at his home ground, only 3 runs better than his average at Bellerive.

Before today he averaged just 28.8 at Optus Stadium, so it was a real gritty and gutsy effort to turn around his fortunes on a day when nobody else cracked 50.

 

[greyhound punter]

Warner was superb today. As someone else said, no-one else cracked 50.

Warner will be a yuuggee loss once he retires from test cricket - people can say he was a home town bully etc, in some regards, there is some merit to that.

But today was typical warner, and why he is an undisputed great of Australian cricket - he will be a yuge loss to our batting lineup, that is without even mentioning his fielding at first slip.

So we will be hit witht he double whammy of losing runs at the top of the order, and then having to chase more runs from catches being shelved at first slip.

 

[Young Redleg]

I'll admit that I've never liked Warner but it would be absurd to suggest that he won't be a loss once he retires.

Let's face it, opening batsmen with 26 centuries to their name don't grow on trees.

 

[The Passenger]

We can all see that Warner contributes a hell of a lot more on flat Aussie wickets than he does elsewhere.

When he first came into the team we all thought he'd be a flat track bully then remember his first ton in really tricky conditions in Hobart against NZ? Then he made tough runs just after that (can't remember the specifics) and there were a few raised eyebrows that maybe he was gonna defy expectations... Well as always, time wins in test cricket... Whether it's a player's average coming back to the pack after an insane start (Labs, Boland, Philander) or a run of great luck ending, give a player enough time and things will work out relatively close to expectations. In the end, Warner average 20 runs more in Australian than overseas was a pretty solid bet ten years ago.

Nevertheless, it's still a very very good career. I think that his low 30's average outside of Australia precludes him from being named amongst the top echelon of elite openers of Australian cricket. Definitely below the likes of Matt Hayden, Arthur Morris, Bob Simpson and about three or four others... Despite a slightly lower average, I would still take Mark Taylor over Warner due to his ability to score more runs in a wider variety of conditions.

Hayden had some torrid times overseas (alongside one epic series in India) but he still managed to average over 40 overseas. I think 40 is the benchmark - if you're 40 home and away you've given yourself immunity from criticism. The list early in the thread is a bit rough on some players, such as Hayden, Clyde Walcott (ave 40) and especially Everton Weekes (ave 49) who still had good away records.

The above being said I still definitely would've picked Warner in this series. He is still the second best opening batsman we have available and by quite a distance IMO. The theory of getting a new opener in and settled is fine but can also be flipped on its head and say the new opener should have a fire lit under him because the selectors have said a guy who has averaged ~30 over the last three years was still considered better than him - the new guy should have a point to prove.

And then with that also being said, I'm happy this is his last series. I'm honestly just tired of the whole circus that comes with Warner. It'll be just nice to move on from all of that. It's a great shame we're going to send off our fifth highest test run scorer with anything other than pure admiration, but there is only one person to blame for that.

So we will be hit witht he double whammy of losing runs at the top of the order, and then having to chase more runs from catches being shelved at first slip.

Hopefully, they go with Bancroft so that will alleviate that problem. Marcus Harris, however, is one of the worst fieldsmen that bats in the top seven to have ever pulled on the baggy green.

 

[Jamurp]

Would love it if OP was actually Mitch Johnson.

 

[frankrizzo]

One issue with home and away is we tend to harshly judge guys with exceptional home records, if bancroft comes in and averages say 43 at home and 34-35 away for overall average of 40 most say hey thats great but he averages 65 at home 35 away suddenly its hey thats awful.

obviously warner wasnt great overseas but winning home tests still count, look at what happens when we lose a home series heads always roll and they will again next summer if we lose to india so why do we discount home runs when we also go ballistic if our guys dare lose a home series?

Its probably worst part of this forum so few will enjoy the wins this summer they will just bitch about it being too easy yet if we lose to england or india at home those same people will go berserk as if the players burnt the flag or something, if the only home games and home runs you are passionate about are the ones we lose then you are going to miserable most of the time.

 

[weekend at bernies]

his away average is also propped up by having played well in Sth Africa. albeit similar conditions to AUS.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Should have waited for Warner to fail in the second innings by not making 150+!

 

[eth-dog]

One of, yes.

He was still a very good player in his pomp, which was a while ago now.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

One of, yes.

He was still a very good player in his pomp, which was a while ago now.

A total liability in England and India.

 

[Mikevk123]

Say what you want about him but he’s been a stellar batsmen for us at the top of the order.

 

[PhatBoy]

Say what you want about him but he’s been a stellar batsmen for us at the top of the order.

In certain circumstances.

He’s always going to be a caveat player.

Like a Vernon Philander.

‘Ok if I was to pick a bowler for a World XI on a deck doing a bit. Who’s the first bowler in the last 25-30 years I’d pick?’
‘Vernon Philander.’

Everywhere else? He’d probably make a SA second XI from that period behind Steyn, Donald, Pollock, Rabada.

Who is the opener I’d pick for Australia for the last 30 years if we were playing at home, before anyone else?

Pretty hard to go past him.

As soon as you get on a plane he’s behind Slater, Langer, Hayden, Khawaja, Taylor, Boon if you wanted to go back to Boon’s pre #3 days.

You’d also look at him as a ‘who would I pick to set a target in a second innings player.’ Fantastic at driving home an advantage obviously given his rate of scoring.

 

[Cleavy]

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

The Hobart innings was his best

Bracwell had it swinging around corners

 

[Teen Wolf]

Chris Woakes

Bowling:

	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Avg	Econ	SR	5w	10w
Home	2013-2023	28	54	811.2	182	2473	113	6/17	11/102	21.88	3.04	43.0	5	1
Away	2015-2022	20	37	616.5	140	1868	36	4/36	5/120	51.88	3.02	102.8	0	0

Batting:

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Avg	BF	SR	100s	50s	0s	4s	6s
Home	2013-2023	28	42	11	1031	137*	33.25	1837	56.12	1	5	4	138	5
Away	2015-2022	20	37	4	723	52	21.90	1469	49.21	0	1	5	87	2

 

[Trojan90]

Babar Azam
71 @ home (Pak)
39 @ away

Counting UAE as home
59 @ home
39 @ away

 

[PhatBoy]

Babar Azam
71 @ home (Pak)
39 @ away

Counting UAE as home
59 @ home
39 @ away

That makes his gap massive but it’s not as woefully bad as someone averaging 32 away from home, and he also suffers in that one major venue he can never ever play at is one that logically should enhance his away numbers (India)

 

[Gethelred]

That makes his gap massive but it’s not as woefully bad as someone averaging 32 away from home, and he also suffers in that one major venue he can never ever play at is one that logically should enhance his away numbers (India)

By the same token, he doesn't have to face India's bowlers on their wickets. Not facing Jadeja/Ashwin/Patel on their decks might in fact help his average, not to mention Bumrah/Siraj/Shami.

That criticism goes both ways. Some of the SA greats during Apartheid have enhanced reputations precisely because you never got to see them at their worst on a foreign tour; Ricky Ponting might've had a reputation akin to Bradman and an average in excess of 60 if he never had to play in India.

Imagine Warner's record if he never had to set foot in England to face Stuart Broad.

In the end, you can only talk about what is.

 

[PhatBoy]

By the same token, he doesn't have to face India's bowlers on their wickets. Not facing Jadeja/Ashwin/Patel on their decks might in fact help his average, not to mention Bumrah/Siraj/Shami.

That criticism goes both ways. Some of the SA greats during Apartheid have enhanced reputations precisely because you never got to see them at their worst on a foreign tour; Ricky Ponting might've had a reputation akin to Bradman and an average in excess of 60 if he never had to play in India.

Imagine Warner's record if he never had to set foot in England to face Stuart Broad.

In the end, you can only talk about what is.

I don’t necessarily disagree but IF there is a foreign batsman from the top tier that you would think could go there and handle those guys outside of the obvious one (Smith), Azam would be a likely pick: averages 49, 49, 70 and 40 in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and the UAE respectively.

Thought you’d have to assume that, even though I think they’d be crazy to do it, India would cook the wickets if Pakistan actually DID even tour there

 

[Mr Meow]

I don’t necessarily disagree but IF there is a foreign batsman from the top tier that you would think could go there and handle those guys outside of the obvious one (Smith), Azam would be a likely pick: averages 49, 49, 70 and 40 in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and the UAE respectively.

Thought you’d have to assume that, even though I think they’d be crazy to do it, India would cook the wickets if Pakistan actually DID even tour there

So very good in those types of conditions, but not others. A caveat batsman, to use your phraseology from earlier.

Like Warner. We just don't have 5 other countries nearby with Australia-type pitches.

 

[PhatBoy]

So very good in those types of conditions, but not others. A caveat batsman, to use your phraseology from earlier.

Like Warner. We just don't have 5 other countries nearby with Australia-type pitches.

Except he averages 65 in England, 47 in New Zealand and 36 in the West Indies, and his away average is 25 per cent higher than David Warner’s, but yes aside from all those things he’s exactly the same as David Warner.


When you’re looking at ‘countries with similar conditions for them to bat in’ you might notice that Warner has South Africa where he’s played 6 tests. Azam’s away average of 39 - yes, it excludes the neutral venue of the UAE - includes, wait for it, 6 matches in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.

So yeah, Warner doesn’t have ‘5 other countries with conditions just like Australia’s.’ He just has one country that he’s been able to play in the exact same amount of times as what Babar has been able to play in with similar conditions to his own home country.

You didn’t even understand the caveat comment obviously.

The caveat part applies to if you were to try and fit Warner into a certain part of Australian ‘best of’ lore in modern times or all time.
Ie. you couldn’t pick him in a best ever team. Anyone with a brain knows this, and I suspect you are part of that group. But you could pick him in a ‘if you were playing in Australia you probably would pick him’ side. It’s actually probably a compliment to him but you seem determined to ignore that

 

[revo333]

 

[Cursed Cat]

How do you feel about Allan Border - 46 at home



57 away?

Champion. Legend.

 

[Mr Meow]

Except he averages 65 in England, 47 in New Zealand and 36 in the West Indies, and his away average is 25 per cent higher than David Warner’s, but yes aside from all those things he’s exactly the same as David Warner.

You didn’t even understand the caveat comment obviously.

The caveat part is if you were to try and fit Warner into a certain part of Australian ‘best of’ lore in modern times or all time.
Ie. you couldn’t pick him in a best ever team. Anyone with a brain knows this, and I suspect you are part of that group. But you could pick him in a ‘if you were playing in Australia you probably would pick him’ side. It’s actually probably a compliment to him but you seem determined to ignore that

A 32 higher average at home is still significant.

I'll keep pointing out the rude parts of your posts and that's where engaging can end.

 

[PhatBoy]

A 32 higher average at home is still significant.

I'll keep pointing out the rude parts of your posts and that's where engaging can end.

I literally just said ‘you are someone with a brain and understand this.’