Collingwood List Management Thread

[Knightmare]

One issue I feel is coming into relevance is those who will be going onto our senior list.

With Witts already with Collingwood it sounds like he might be going straight onto the senior list as Tom Young did last year. As well as this Jye Bolton's form is almost commanding a senior position.

The best work arounds to minimise delistings this year is to rookie Witts + keep Bolton on the rookie list until he forces his way onto the senior list in 2012. But I am beginning to get the impression that the club intends to reward both players.

So if indeed this is the case we might have up to 5 delistings. Which is worrying.
Would be something like: Brad Dick, Trent Stubbs, Luke Rounds, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas - since none are established AFL players.
But if you are projecting ahead none of the above look likely to break into the senior side in 2012 as regular players - even though Rounds/Sinclair/Thomas would all be well in the mix for a couple of irregular games each.

Don't want to delist Thomas + Sinclair in particular since neither have been available for the 1st half of the season and both really need that 3rd season to develop because of it. But because neither look like certain AFL players they are probably that 4+5 down.

Daniel Farmer would also be in that mix. But with his recent improvment and being a 1st year player doubt he would go before Sinclair + Thomas.

 

[HFF]

Personally, I don't see Farmer as being anything special.

Josh Thomas is a must keep. Under no circumstances should he even be considered for delisting.

Ben Sinclair on the other hand...(I know the club rates him highly but he represents alot of Jaxson Barham about him).

Will be interesting to see what the club does with Dick. Gut feel is that he may be moved onto the rookie lst (provided nobody else takes him).

 

[Dundalis]

One issue I feel is coming into relevance is those who will be going onto our senior list.

With Witts already with Collingwood it sounds like he might be going straight onto the senior list as Tom Young did last year. As well as this Jye Bolton's form is almost commanding a senior position.

The best work arounds to minimise delistings this year is to rookie Witts + keep Bolton on the rookie list until he forces his way onto the senior list in 2012. But I am beginning to get the impression that the club intends to reward both players.

So if indeed this is the case we might have up to 5 delistings. Which is worrying.
Would be something like: Brad Dick, Trent Stubbs, Luke Rounds, Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas - since none are established AFL players.
But if you are projecting ahead none of the above look likely to break into the senior side in 2012 as regular players - even though Rounds/Sinclair/Thomas would all be well in the mix for a couple of irregular games each.

Don't want to delist Thomas + Sinclair in particular since neither have been available for the 1st half of the season and both really need that 3rd season to develop because of it. But because neither look like certain AFL players they are probably that 4+5 down.

Daniel Farmer would also be in that mix. But with his recent improvment and being a 1st year player doubt he would go before Sinclair + Thomas.

I was under the impression that Thomas was by far our most promising and talented young midfielder of those yet to debut at AFL level. Don't understand why he would be anywhere near talk of delisting.

 

[Knightmare]

I was under the impression that Thomas was by far our most promising and talented young midfielder of those yet to debut at AFL level. Don't understand why he would be anywhere near talk of delisting.

Most talented inside mid yet to debut anyway.

Don't want Thomas or even to a lesser extent Sinclair and even probably Rounds to go anywhere just yet.

But what I was saying is if forced into making 5 list changes - might elect to go with the 5 if Jye Bolton is promoted and Jarrod Witts is senior listed.
Not easy to find those 5 to go..

Obviously I like probably most other Pies fans hope that we made no more than 3/4 list changes..

In the scenario with Witts + Bolton could still be 4 list changes and just have two active draft selections in the national draft which would still be quite reasonable.

 

[Knightmare]

Personally, I don't see Farmer as being anything special.

Ben Sinclair on the other hand...(I know the club rates him highly but he represents alot of Jaxson Barham about him).

Farmer hasn't met my expectations, but has shown improvement over the past 2 months. Don't think it is beyond him to surprise a couple of people. Once he gets stronger and starts winning his own contested footy I think he will become pretty solid.

I agree with your thoughts on Sinclair. Club loves him more than I do. But I don't see it beyond him getting a couple of games at some stage. Just don't view him as a best 22 guy down the road though.
But this said wouldn't delist him because he is very solid depth and being only a 2nd year player who has missed half of season 2 with injury, I wouldn't be getting rid of him for at least another year yet.
Josh Thomas same, but like you I view him as the better of the pair, my only question with Josh being who will he push past to get a role as an inside mid at AFL level.

 

[Bay Pie]

Given it appears a very weak draft, I'd expect us to make the minimum 3 picks which will be around 26, 45 & 63.

I'd be shocked if Josh Thomas got shown the door. I'm thinking either Stubbs or Farmer may get asked to got onto the rookie list ala Thoolen.

I'd think we'll try to rookie Witts if he'll accept it as appears unlikely he'd play AFL next year, even at this early stage.

Perhaps someone in the JMac, Goldy mould request a trade.

Tough decisions on at least 3 players this year.

 

[Scodog10]

Given it appears a very weak draft, I'd expect us to make the minimum 3 picks which will be around 26, 45 & 63.

The minimum's only two as long as you upgrade a rookie. So in other words it depends on whether or not Collingwood rate the 63rd player in the draft better than Bolton (who's the most likely rookie to be upgraded). This draft is thin so I reckon there's a better than 50/50 chance that we'll only have 2 live picks this year.

 

[Yoda_]

Hey Knightmare/Tradedraft

I hate you guys. Your fighting over which second third fourth year player to delist.

Would happily look at a Josh Thomas or John McArtney. Love the way Bolton goes about to.

 

[TradeDraft]

Hey Knightmare/Tradedraft

I hate you guys. Your fighting over which second third fourth year player to delist.

Would happily look at a Josh Thomas or John McArtney. Love the way Bolton goes about to.

I would trade McCarthy

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knightmare/Tradedraft

I hate you guys. Your fighting over which second third fourth year player to delist.

Would happily look at a Josh Thomas or John McArtney. Love the way Bolton goes about to.

J.Thomas wouldn't have great value since hasn't played. But looks like the eventual Luke Ball replacement so I'd look to keep him.

McCarthy could be traded - but wouldn't look to take on another player in return. Instead would look for something along the lines of a reasonable pick upgrade.
You bought it up previously but Bombers 1st rounder for McCarthy + Pies 1st rounder would probably do it.

 

[TradeDraft]

J.Thomas wouldn't have great value since hasn't played. But looks like the eventual Luke Ball replacement so I'd look to keep him.

McCarthy could be traded - but wouldn't look to take on another player in return. Instead would look for something along the lines of a reasonable pick upgrade.
You bought it up previously but Bombers 1st rounder for McCarthy + Pies 1st rounder would probably do it.

That would be a Fair Trade and we could get into the Mid Teens with that Pick

 

[THATSGOLD]

I have heard the 2012 is one of the strongest drafts of all time.. that being said i would love us to have as many picks as possible available..

The 3 weakest of our senior list as mentioned earlier would have to be j thomas sinclair and dick..all mainly because they have been injuried for the majority of the time at pieland. We may never delist such quality ever again.

Weather Ben Johnson goes another year or is forced into early retirement because of this dilemma remains to be seen

 

[Knightmare]

That would be a Fair Trade and we could get into the Mid Teens with that Pick

Might move us up 10 spots, which is handy. Usually I wouldn't look to upgrade picks because essentially what the draft is, is a type of lottery and for all we know pick 26 could be better than pick 16.
But a move like this helps make way for another player to be retained, which is handy.

I have heard the 2012 is one of the strongest drafts of all time.. that being said i would love us to have as many picks as possible available..

Weather Ben Johnson goes another year or is forced into early retirement because of this dilemma remains to be seen

You heard right. 2012 will be an incredibly strong draft. Who knows. Could be the strongest we have ever had.

Ben Johnson's injuries this year have worried me. Every time he looks like he is playing at his best he seems to have a little injury scare.
Maybe he retires at the end of the season, but I wouldn't count on it until there is some indication that he might be willing to call it an end.

 

[Dundalis]

Ben Johnson's injuries this year have worried me. Every time he looks like he is playing at his best he seems to have a little injury scare.
Maybe he retires at the end of the season, but I wouldn't count on it until there is some indication that he might be willing to call it an end.

How many years left on Johnson's contract?

 

[Quicky]

Personally, I don't see Farmer as being anything special.

Josh Thomas is a must keep. Under no circumstances should he even be considered for delisting.

Ben Sinclair on the other hand...(I know the club rates him highly but he represents alot of Jaxson Barham about him).

Will be interesting to see what the club does with Dick. Gut feel is that he may be moved onto the rookie lst (provided nobody else takes him).

I'm not arguing against the thought process here because i've had the same thoughts too. But with Farmer I can't help but draw comparisons to Macaffer. I had a very similar feeling about Macaffer in his first year, down to thinking he was a candidate for delisting, while he was wallowing in the Williamstown 2nds (and not really showing a thing). Farmer even has similar playing qualities to Macaffer. Farmer is beginning to show the signs of why Hine rated him so highly, it's just taken some confidence. Not every player starts out with the confidence. I just wonder whether Farmer falls into this "Macaffer" precedent. It's a hard call with such a tight list this year. The delisting are going to be brutal. Someone is going to be/feel hard done by for sure.

 

[Quicky]

On the Sinclair/Thomas arguments for delisting, just making a snap judgment, I think Thomas has shown the goods while Sinclair struggles with his disposal (not endeavour) and wonder whether this will weigh into decisions with Bucks taking over the list. It's a loose (and in many ways unfair comparison) but Sinclair reminds me a bit of Barham in that I dont think he has the footskills to really cut it at AFL level. I'd be looking at delisting Sinclair (unfair but thats the sort of year it is) and keeping Thomas (because he has "it"). Thats me anyway.

 

[Knightmare]

On the Sinclair/Thomas arguments for delisting, just making a snap judgment, I think Thomas has shown the goods while Sinclair struggles with his disposal (not endeavour) and wonder whether this will weigh into decisions with Bucks taking over the list. It's a loose (and in many ways unfair comparison) but Sinclair reminds me a bit of Barham in that I dont think he has the footskills to really cut it at AFL level. I'd be looking at delisting Sinclair (unfair but thats the sort of year it is) and keeping Thomas (because he has "it"). Thats me anyway.

I agree with all this. With regard to both Thomas + Sinclair.

I'd delist: Dick, Stubbs, then probably Rounds just before Sinclair. Would be hard to delist either though..

Stubbs can easily be rookied.

Also agree on the post before with regard to Farmer. Wouldn't delist him and think that the way to progress with him is by showing confidence in him. Just needs time, but can make it.

 

[Knightmare]

How many years left on Johnson's contract?

Would probably have to check contract thread. But if retires then contract can be terminated without any issues I'm sure.

 

[loki04]

I would keep both Thomas and Sinclair.

Sinclair is a better disposer of the ball then Barham was, I do see the comparison but I don't think Sinclair is as poor as Barham and have seen Sinclair kick very well during the NAB cup. I think he can improve it and will might even be a fatigue issue.

 

[bballscout]

Unlikely but id love to do this trade:

Beams, Thomas, Gordon

for

Toy, Hine, 2nd pick (likely 15-20 range)

Pretty fair trade and benefits both clubs. Pies upgrade draft picks whilst gaining 2 hyped Vic juniors in Hine and particularly Toy who was touted top 3 before pre listing with GC. Gordon has strong Gold Coast links and could develop into another tall defender that the club seems to lack.

 

[Zahki]

I assume you mean Josh Thomas there and not Dale. I dunno, losing Beams would hurt but pick 4 is pretty nice and Toy looks like a real player. I think it's fair but won't happen, trades involving mroe than 2 players/picks at a time on both sides are quite rare.

 

[Knightmare]

Unlikely but id love to do this trade:

Beams, Thomas, Gordon

for

Toy, Hine, 2nd pick (likely 15-20 range)

Pretty fair trade and benefits both clubs. Pies upgrade draft picks whilst gaining 2 hyped Vic juniors in Hine and particularly Toy who was touted top 3 before pre listing with GC. Gordon has strong Gold Coast links and could develop into another tall defender that the club seems to lack.

If J.Thomas then a very interesting trade.

With Collingwood we are going for premierships now, so losing Beams is a greater loss than likely anything we gain in return from this deal because the same immediate impact cannot be expected regardless of quality which is the problem.

Doubt Collingwood would do this trade because Beams is contracted but I'd consider because those are some fairly appealing long term assets on the table.

If you switched Joel Wilkinson in for Hine I would do the trade.

 

[bballscout]

Lol yes sorry I meant Josh, not Dale obviously. Also Wilkinson wont be going anywhere, born and bred Gold Coaster and as a new club, cant afford to lose those type of guys. Hine is a Melb boy and wouldve gone 1st round had he not pre listed with us. Great long term prospect, just hard to see him getting a game with us given our great list concessions. Could do a 3 way trade where Hine goes elsewhere but pies gain a different player or draft pick.

You guys get to free up cap space also with Beams contract quite high now.

 

[Knightmare]

Lol yes sorry I meant Josh, not Dale obviously. Also Wilkinson wont be going anywhere, born and bred Gold Coaster and as a new club, cant afford to lose those type of guys. Hine is a Melb boy and wouldve gone 1st round had he not pre listed with us. Great long term prospect, just hard to see him getting a game with us given our great list concessions. Could do a 3 way trade where Hine goes elsewhere but pies gain a different player or draft pick.

You guys get to free up cap space also with Beams contract quite high now.

While other draft followers considered Wilkinson more of a 2nd rounder and I had as a top 10 selection - based on quality had he not been zoned to Gold Coast.

But I know a couple on this board who love Hine. Think he can have a career in this league, but I think at Collingwood he would struggle to give him games in a fairly established midfield.

With regard to our salary cap. Don't view it is a significant issue. The club is very good at managing the salary cap.
No team would trade a top 15 club player who is only in their 3rd season just for salary cap reasons.

 

[HFF]

Don't know where Gordon ranks at the club long term as he is a developing rookie but Beams is certainly not for sale.

Josh Thomas will also be retained. Very highly rated within and he knocked back GC already as did Beams.

Toy/Hine (who may be terrific long term prospects all things being equal) would not get a game in the current Collingwood side. In fact, it would be harder for them at Collingwood than at GC.

Beams is a certain starter in any side so you can see why he would not be released.