Collingwood List Management Thread

[Shade]

Anybody know whats happening with Brad Dick?
Has he been seen doing any training around the club?
Is he going to be part of the Pies plan going forward?
I really hope he stays and gets over his constant injury concerns.

i think Brad Dick is destined to be the next Sean Rusling

 

[rustyg70]

i think Brad Dick is destined to be the next Sean Rusling

Hope not.
He has the pace,tackling and enthusiasm we seem to have been missing in the forward line at times this year.

 

[Knightmare]

whats the point talking about guys like trent west, zac clarke etc they're not going anywhere....plus it is a bit early to be getting really excited about trent west, has done bugger all so far.....

It is unlikely either of these players will be going anyway - quite right. But important is establishing which AFL players in your mind are up to the level, fit your system and fit your culture.

By identifying these players you are interested in trading into now, it means in later years if one of these does come onto the market then maybe you can trade into them then - in the case of West + Clarke I don't think this will be the case though and I think 2012 will be the year, for West in particular that he establishes himself as an AFL standard ruckman and a likely "breakout player".

I am very aware of West's situation and VFL form over the years he has been in the system. Has well and truely beaten many AFL quality ruckman at VFL and at AFL level has never looked out of place - and because he has played so few games it is even more impressive.
West has lacked the opportunity in the past under Mark Thompson, but his ability to play at AFL level over the past 2, possibly 3 years I don't even regard as being a question to be honest.
But others are more than entitled to disagree.

So you guys think our ruck division is strong enough, that we don't need to get another ruckman? Cause i don't know whether you guys watched the last two matches but we have been dominated in the ruck. Cam wood will never be a player that you will back as a good forward or ruckman come finals (exactly like josh fraser). Leigh Mathews is of the opinion that we have weakest ruck division of all the teams in the finals. I would have to agree with him; and that i think is a worry.

I don't have an issue when Jolly as our no.1 ruckman. Had no issue with the way he played v WCE, he competed and against high level talents - Cox + Nic Nat, was a very good performance.
Is a very good ruckman and would be in the top 10 around the league when healthy.

I think what Leigh Matthews was getting at is based on form our ruck combo probably isn't all that great. Would rate our ruck combo (this year - of those finalists) in the 4-6 range personally though - which is ok, but probably not as good as you'd like it to be as a premiership hopeful.

In the short-medium term I do have issues with our soon to be ruck combinations.

Jolly's durability is now questionable and at 31 you can no longer expect him to play 22+ games per year at his highest level of production - so he does need to be managed Ottens style or close to.
Wood his likely successor just isn't an AFL quality ruckman and has shown few signs to suggest he ever will be anything more than just a depth ruckman.
Then Witts + Ceglar are another 3-4 years off producing at a high level - assuming they develop.
And Keeffe in the ruck is very much an unknown quantity since he hasn't really played the position.

So a ruckman in that in their mid 20s age group who can play the no.1 ruck role now, take over as no.1 ruckman when Jolly retires and also play the no.2 ruck role well would be the ideal pickup - and would be huge in our quest to win premierships over the next 4 or so seasons. For mine West is the perfect fit - but many others are fairly unfamiliar with him since he has played limited senior footy to this point.

Just want some expert opinion from either Snoop or Knight here or whoever else is a keen list management watcher.

What do you think our strategy will be this year, gut feel wise?

Are we more likely to trade for established players or even attempt to bid for a chance at a 17yr old or are we going to just sit tight and take our chances with the picks we have this year and go the draft?

What I think the club will do?
Will be very interesting. We seem to have faith in Wood which makes me think we don'ttrade into another ruckman - for some reason at Collingwood we don't seem to have the priority of high level ruckman as high on our list as a Geelong who was in a similar position a couple of years ago.

So most likely we will go after value.

Probably most likely we keep our 1st rounder, but if the right trade comes up I don't see why we would be unwilling to deal it again. It's a logical asset to trade on which means we can keep the core to our group together.
Unlikely it will be any huge trade.

Don't think we are a serious chance at the 17 year olds but I expect we will go after it anyway as every club will. Other clubs - Melb for eg. Can trade the two compo picks, 1st rounder + young player (if super keen to get to that no.1 spot).
Can't see us being able to come close to matching this.


But essentially my list management views are on P1 regarding trade + drafting.

What are the chances of Buckley making Woods our number one ruck and having Jolly start in the forward line and becoming our second ruck?
Jolly can take a grab and kick goals.

Hopefully very small. Jolly is most productive in his no.1 ruck role.
Wood is the same, most productive in the no.1 ruck role.
Wouldn't play them together under any circumstance.

i think Brad Dick is destined to be the next Sean Rusling

Conceded this a long time now. Would be disappointed to see Dick retained to be honest. Talent is there but with knee and shoulder issues just won't ever make it because he doesn't have the confidence in his body to make it happen.

 

[Wooljay]

If we can afford to hang onto Dick (lol) for one more year, I'd be very pleased. If we literally have to delist him that'd be shattering, but at the end of the day you'd understand.

 

[Ed D]

Jolly's durability is now questionable and at 31 you can no longer expect him to play 22+ games per year at his highest level of production - so he does need to be managed Ottens style or close to.
Wood his likely successor just isn't an AFL quality ruckman and has shown few signs to suggest he ever will be anything more than just a depth ruckman.
Then Witts + Ceglar are another 3-4 years off producing at a high level - assuming they develop.
And Keeffe in the ruck is very much an unknown quantity since he hasn't really played the position.

So a ruckman in that in their mid 20s age group who can play the no.1 ruck role now, take over as no.1 ruckman when Jolly retires and also play the no.2 ruck role well would be the ideal pickup - and would be huge in our quest to win premierships over the next 4 or so seasons. For mine West is the perfect fit - but many others are fairly unfamiliar with him since he has played limited senior footy to this point.

Just thought I'd point out, Jolly is 29 turning 30 this year. So he's not that old. Unless you're talking about him being 31 when his contract expires in 2013.

 

[Nicco_jj]

Someone mentioned that they don't think that there will be any rookies being upgraded... Not even Jye Bolton? He's been pretty alright this year hasn't he?

 

[blaze036]

Just thought I'd point out, Jolly is 29 turning 30 this year. So he's not that old. Unless you're talking about him being 31 when his contract expires in 2013.

His got a career ending knee injury that his struggling with and cant be fixed it appears, got 1 year in him probably.

I think we should delist N.Brown... he is deffinitly the current rusling his never gonna get over his injuries, got two bung knees a bung shoulder hasnt exactly played amazing in the team, just overrated from playing well on riewoldt in the GF (which we've now realized isnt a hard feat anymore).

His brother at WCE has the exact same problems and cant get in the WCE team, so we know its not luck his got bad genes and his gonna be incredibly injury prone his whole career, not worth keeping sad but it happens. Dick as well, got no where near enough bulk to play in the AFL and cant put it on, he cant tackle got two bad shoulders and his the weakest player in the afl by a mile they normally get shrugged easily.

Got a lot of talent but i'd delist him if we can get something promising in his place, u'd prob give either him, brown or both 1 more year though as a last chance... or maybe not have to wait n see.

Delist stubbs and a few rookies, if needed delist farmer but prob wont as we wont take that many draft picks and likely lose somone like macaffer/macarthy

 

[handy point]

His got a career ending knee injury that his struggling with and cant be fixed it appears, got 1 year in him probably.

I think we should delist N.Brown... he is deffinitly the current rusling his never gonna get over his injuries, got two bung knees a bung shoulder hasnt exactly played amazing in the team, just overrated from playing well on riewoldt in the GF (which we've now realized isnt a hard feat anymore).

His brother at WCE has the exact same problems and cant get in the WCE team, so we know its not luck his got bad genes and his gonna be incredibly injury prone his whole career, not worth keeping sad but it happens. Dick as well, got no where near enough bulk to play in the AFL and cant put it on, he cant tackle got two bad shoulders and his the weakest player in the afl by a mile they normally get shrugged easily.

Got a lot of talent but i'd delist him if we can get something promising in his place, u'd prob give either him, brown or both 1 more year though as a last chance... or maybe not have to wait n see.

Delist stubbs and a few rookies, if needed delist farmer but prob wont as we wont take that many draft picks and likely lose somone like macaffer/macarthy

wow.... just wow.

 

[Shade]

LOL did you just say delist nathan brown please tell me you didnt say that

 

[Heritier 09]

yeah nah

 

[ash84]

Delist Nathan Brown has got to be a joke.

 

[HFF]

Cheers for the replies Snoop + Knight and the others.

Very interesting reading. You guys are normally spot on with most things list management/recruiting.

As for Blaze, he clearly has no idea.

 

[blaze036]

Delist Nathan Brown has got to be a joke.

Two dodgy knees 1-2 dodgy shoulders him and his twin brother can never get on the park. A lot of his limited games he hasnt even played very well at all, massivly overhyped from the grand final performance on riewoldt.

 

[ash84]

Two dodgy knees 1-2 dodgy shoulders him and his twin brother can never get on the park. A lot of his limited games he hasnt even played very well at all, massivly overhyped from the grand final performance on riewoldt.

Each to their own..
Dunno about delisting him though.

 

[lozza63]

Blaze - KPP dont grow on trees look at the long list clubs who would currently love a guy like him - all bar perhaps Essendon, Geelong and West Coast!
He is only 22 - 23 at end of the year - mate surely he is worth at least 2-3 more years at this club even injured?
With L. Brown retired, Taz aging, albeit gracefully, i suggest keeping Nate would be right up the top of our priority list - dont u think?

 

[blaze036]

Blaze - KPP dont grow on trees look at the long list clubs who would currently love a guy like him - all bar perhaps Essendon, Geelong and West Coast!
He is only 22 - 23 at end of the year - mate surely he is worth at least 2-3 more years at this club even injured?
With L. Brown retired, Taz aging, albeit gracefully, i suggest keeping Nate would be right up the top of our priority list - dont u think?

Gumbleton rusling are in the exact same boat, u can just keep on keeping them year after year hoping they finally dont get injured, but eventually u gotta cut the string, sure his worth keeping for another year, but look at the facts that his genes are terrible and his shoulder and knee(s) are walking time bombs and soon his gonna be out for another 12 months then lose motivation, already his missed tonnes of footy fitness and muscle. The current defenders plus keefe going forward for the next 2-3 years should be more than sufficient, add in young also plus whoever we pick up in the next few drafts.

 

[handy point]

Gumbleton rusling are in the exact same boat, u can just keep on keeping them year after year hoping they finally dont get injured, but eventually u gotta cut the string, sure his worth keeping for another year, but look at the facts that his genes are terrible and his shoulder and knee(s) are walking time bombs and soon his gonna be out for another 12 months then lose motivation, already his missed tonnes of footy fitness and muscle. The current defenders plus keefe going forward for the next 2-3 years should be more than sufficient, add in young also plus whoever we pick up in the next few drafts.

Powerball numbers while you're at it?

 

[Lockyer24]

I would like to add to m wishlist which is currently #1 a "tweener medium forward Michael O'Loughlin type".

I have felt in recent weeks we seem to lack a player with real speed to crack games open and break the lines.

We have a fair mosquito fleet, who are all very clever and good on one, however I'd like to add #2 an "Isaac Smith type" to my wishlist.

 

[blaze036]

Powerball numbers while you're at it?

yea coz ITS TOTALLY WACK AND RIDICULOUS that a player will lose motivation after being injured for 2 years + in a row how do i even think of these amazing things that are only slightly commen sense.

 

[Shade]

yea coz ITS TOTALLY WACK AND RIDICULOUS that a player will lose motivation after being injured for 2 years + in a row how do i even think of these amazing things that are only slightly commen sense.

Delisting Nathan Brown isn't common sense its stupidity.

 

[the distributer]

If we can afford to hang onto Dick (lol) for one more year, I'd be very pleased. If we literally have to delist him that'd be shattering, but at the end of the day you'd understand.

Pretty sure well delist him and recruit him as a rookie, as we know he takes a while to come back to form so i'd say 2012 won't be a great year for him, 2013 though is anyones guess. (assuming he's out of contract of course).

 

[the distributer]

Two dodgy knees 1-2 dodgy shoulders him and his twin brother can never get on the park. A lot of his limited games he hasnt even played very well at all, massivly overhyped from the grand final performance on riewoldt.

He's a much better player than his brother, a keeper in every sense of the word IMO.

 

[soreplums]

I think outside of rookies, we will not delist too many more than the three that we need to at the end of this season. I believe at the end of 2012 we will delist more players to have more picks in the "Superdraft." Players like Rounds, Stubbs, Sinclair etc will be delisted with some players possibly being retained as rookies

 

[Scodog10]

yea coz ITS TOTALLY WACK AND RIDICULOUS that a player will lose motivation after being injured for 2 years + in a row how do i even think of these amazing things that are only slightly commen sense.

For every player that you name in that scenario I can name another that has gone the other way with their resolve galvanised by a large absence from the game. Andrew Walker, Max Bailey, Nick Malceski, Daniel Kerr and David Rodan are 5 recent examples of players that have bounced back well from serious long term injuries.

4 absolute superstars of the last 20 years also had to endure these concerns. Carey with his shoulders (he could barely lift his arms over his head post 97), Richardson with his knee, Voss with his leg and Hird with his foot.

Not too mention that Judd slipped to number 3 in the draft due to grave concerns over his shoulders at the age of 17 (he'd already had 2 reconstructions), Davis has just signed with GWS on $800,000 a season after 3 shoulder reco's, Joel Selwood's knee had 5 years max in it when he was drafted, according to Doc Larkins Scully's knee won't hold up into the future yet he will earn $2 million next year , Luke Ball succumb to serious groin problems from 2006-2008 and Steve Johnson would now be a Collingwood player if his ankle wasn't supposedly ruined in 2006 after he had 3 years worth of problems with it!!

If Brown were to do another injury that showed that there was a genuine weakness in an area of his body (ala Coughlan doing his knee for the 2nd time while in the shower having fun with his mrs) then it becomes an issue. However until then its grossly unfair on a 22 year old premiership full back to say he could/ should be delisted after just 1 injury interrupted season.

Edit: I do realise the cracked kneecap was a freak thing, but it didn't actually accentuate a pre-existing weakness.

 

[Ed D]

His got a career ending knee injury that his struggling with and cant be fixed it appears, got 1 year in him probably.

I think we should delist N.Brown... he is deffinitly the current rusling his never gonna get over his injuries, got two bung knees a bung shoulder hasnt exactly played amazing in the team, just overrated from playing well on riewoldt in the GF (which we've now realized isnt a hard feat anymore).

His brother at WCE has the exact same problems and cant get in the WCE team, so we know its not luck his got bad genes and his gonna be incredibly injury prone his whole career, not worth keeping sad but it happens. Dick as well, got no where near enough bulk to play in the AFL and cant put it on, he cant tackle got two bad shoulders and his the weakest player in the afl by a mile they normally get shrugged easily.

Got a lot of talent but i'd delist him if we can get something promising in his place, u'd prob give either him, brown or both 1 more year though as a last chance... or maybe not have to wait n see.

Delist stubbs and a few rookies, if needed delist farmer but prob wont as we wont take that many draft picks and likely lose somone like macaffer/macarthy

Not going to happen. You don't just delist players for the sake of it, you delist them when it's clear they're not going to improve the senior list or they're not needed. Brown is needed and he's clearly capable of playing as a key defender, which he proved last year after stepping in off injuries.

As for Jolly only having 1 year left, we'll see, but to me he reminds me of Ottens so it's not out of the question he could play another 2-3+ years.

By the way, would you have not recruited Licuria because he had 2 knee recos in his teens, or not wanted Judd because he has weak shoulders when he was recruited by West Coast?