Apex36
Hall of Famer
- Mar 26, 2014
- 39,073
- 81,585
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Honestly he should be high on our list of targets. He’s going to be very good when he hits his prime.
List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade & FA 2024
- Thread starter Jen2310
- Start date
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In the wash up after last year’s trade period, I recall Wright mentioning us hitting free agency this season.
I can’t find a link to his comments, although this article quotes Jeff Browne who said something similar at the AGM:
www.zerohanger.com
With this in mind, and noting that some players have already recommitted to their respective sides, who do we think is a realistic possibility from those remaining as a potential free agent?
Personally I really hope we don’t sign Bailey Smith and the he accepts the 2 year deal reportedly on the table from the Dogs. McCluggage is a better option. Similarly, I can’t see Andrew McGrath leaving, now do I think he would be worth paying a premium for.
One player I’ve mentioned ed previously, and who returned on the weekend from a significant injury last year, is Matt Taberner. He’s a free agent at the end of this season and would allow our recruiting team to either wait to see the crop of 2025 free agents, or hit the draft if they’re looking for a KPF.
Interested in everyone’s thoughts now that the potential list has been narrowed somewhat since the end of last year’s trade period,
I can’t find a link to his comments, although this article quotes Jeff Browne who said something similar at the AGM:
"We will be at the front of the queue": Collingwood ready to move for 2024 off-contract stars
"We are a place where people want to come and play football."
www.zerohanger.com
With this in mind, and noting that some players have already recommitted to their respective sides, who do we think is a realistic possibility from those remaining as a potential free agent?
Personally I really hope we don’t sign Bailey Smith and the he accepts the 2 year deal reportedly on the table from the Dogs. McCluggage is a better option. Similarly, I can’t see Andrew McGrath leaving, now do I think he would be worth paying a premium for.
One player I’ve mentioned ed previously, and who returned on the weekend from a significant injury last year, is Matt Taberner. He’s a free agent at the end of this season and would allow our recruiting team to either wait to see the crop of 2025 free agents, or hit the draft if they’re looking for a KPF.
Interested in everyone’s thoughts now that the potential list has been narrowed somewhat since the end of last year’s trade period,
Taberner is 30yoIn the wash up after last year’s trade period, I recall Wright mentioning us hitting free agency this season.
I can’t find a link to his comments, although this article quotes Jeff Browne who said something similar at the AGM:
"We will be at the front of the queue": Collingwood ready to move for 2024 off-contract stars
"We are a place where people want to come and play football."
With this in mind, and noting that some players have already recommitted to their respective sides, who do we think is a realistic possibility from those remaining as a potential free agent?
Personally I really hope we don’t sign Bailey Smith and the he accepts the 2 year deal reportedly on the table from the Dogs. McCluggage is a better option. Similarly, I can’t see Andrew McGrath leaving, now do I think he would be worth paying a premium for.
One player I’ve mentioned ed previously, and who returned on the weekend from a significant injury last year, is Matt Taberner. He’s a free agent at the end of this season and would allow our recruiting team to either wait to see the crop of 2025 free agents, or hit the draft if they’re looking for a KPF.
Interested in everyone’s thoughts now that the potential list has been narrowed somewhat since the end of last year’s trade period,
What will we do with Taberner and McStay in the same forward line? McGrath is just an average player. Smith is no chance. McCluggage would be my pickIn the wash up after last year’s trade period, I recall Wright mentioning us hitting free agency this season.
I can’t find a link to his comments, although this article quotes Jeff Browne who said something similar at the AGM:
"We will be at the front of the queue": Collingwood ready to move for 2024 off-contract stars
"We are a place where people want to come and play football."
With this in mind, and noting that some players have already recommitted to their respective sides, who do we think is a realistic possibility from those remaining as a potential free agent?
Personally I really hope we don’t sign Bailey Smith and the he accepts the 2 year deal reportedly on the table from the Dogs. McCluggage is a better option. Similarly, I can’t see Andrew McGrath leaving, now do I think he would be worth paying a premium for.
One player I’ve mentioned ed previously, and who returned on the weekend from a significant injury last year, is Matt Taberner. He’s a free agent at the end of this season and would allow our recruiting team to either wait to see the crop of 2025 free agents, or hit the draft if they’re looking for a KPF.
Interested in everyone’s thoughts now that the potential list has been narrowed somewhat since the end of last year’s trade period,
sr36
Hall of Famer
Here's how you recruit a Premiership team:
You recruit approximately 170 players through a variety of means over a 17 year period. And about 30 of that 170 survive and thrive and have been developed and coached well enough to get you into the granny. Then 23 of of them thrive on GF day.
The bolded is also how you recruit a wooden spoon team.
It's ridiculous to suggest that the reigning Premiers have recruited badly.
The concept that it has to be done with a particular set of means - be it predominately draft or trade - and that individual player types have to be added a particular way or that you need x number of hits in a particular draft range is just dogma that doesn't stand up to what we've seen play out across the AFL.
Hence my statement that his recruitment would allow us to look at the 2025 free agency pool or the draft.
I'm not saying he's the answer, but from the current free agency pool there doesn't appear to be one given King and Marshall have both re-signed, which leaves us to draft a KPF, who's likely to take a few years to develop.
Presumably play them in the same manner we attempt to play Cox and McStay, only Taberner is more mobile than Cox and a better contested mark.
Another KPF would also provide cover in the event that the other suffers a significant injury, like McStay did this season, thereby reducing our reliance on a player like Johnson.
Would that mean that McStay misses out? I can't see McStay, cox and Taberner in the same side. If you are looking at Taberner just as depth, then it's a yes
For me it would mean Cox either misses out or plays reduced minutes from the interchange.
Fair call....I get it now. Carry on....lol.
There are so many factors and variables to this. The biggest being is the coach and his effect on the squad as a whole. Longevity hasn't been considered also. There have been plenty of examples of sides winning flags and basically playing above themselves. Geelong is the only modern day example of a side being up there without having too many high end picks. Geelong were also lucky to have Hawkins and Ablett for free. It's starting to become very evident that sides who've had enough high end picks are going to be up there in the next 5 years. Our biggest problem is a lack of any real quality talls and that is starting to show already. That's on the recruiting staff and the leader is Hine
sr36
Hall of Famer
We've been saying that for over 20 years - Carlton's 3 pick 1s in a row and then all their other early picks who barely played a finals game between them. Gold Coast, GWS. They were all going to dominate. No pick one has ever played in a premiership for a team that drafted him after a wooden spoon. Here's the list of Pick 1s who have won a flag - Banfield - pick win traded to the premiers. Hodge - pick 1 traded to Hawthorn. Boyd - traded out of the spoon club. Headland - pick 1 in Fitzroy's spoon final year went to the merged team.
Personally, I think we're all stuffed for a while. The Northern clubs are set for a period of dominance, due to having the best of both worlds - good teams - a couple of them really well run already - and they're going to continue to get a stream of early picks through their academies and those kids will develop really well, as they'll be plugged into good well run teams with top players to learn from.
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I'm just a bit worried going forward the next 5 years. I hope our tall stocks are able to carry us for the next 5 years. The Northern clubs look scary
sr36
Hall of Famer
It's going to be longer than 5 years. Draft concessions play out over a 15 year period or even longer if you're really lucky. We're still benefitting from getting a freeby pick in 2005 under the rules of the time. Naicos will benefit us for 15 years if things go well with his body.
It's why I think the club needs to start getting on the front foot to counter the current narrative around 'inequality' in the League.
Inequality exists and always will in the League's current format. But the conversation is being dominated by the northern states who, at this point in time, seem to have the AFL's ear.
There are various inequality issues which aren't tied to draft picks and the development of players, such as fixturing and the salary caps (including the soft cap). Examples include Hardwick's salary not being included in the soft cap, annual games being baked into the fixture (e.g. our game on Easter weekend every year up at the GABBA, Opening Round, Gather Round).
sr36
Hall of Famer
It's the Western state clubs ears we need to be in. At the moment, they're running with vicbias and siding with the Northern states, but it's not in their best interests
The hierarchy of advantage is becoming:
Northern Clubs
Successful Vic clubs
The Rest
I agree.
West Coast and Fremantle are the most disadvantaged clubs in the league at the moment owing to their travel schedule and the introduction of a Gather Round where Port and Adelaide don't play one another.
On top of this, they're subject to the same rules everyone bar the 4 northern clubs are when it comes to bidding on academy players. West Coast spoke out about this following last year's trade period, when St Kilda were able to snatch West Coast NGA player Collard at pick 27.
AFL draft 2023: club frustration grows over next generation academy rules
The AFL’s rules around Next Generation Academy players has been a talking point, with growing frustration at this week’s national draft
GWS lost too many players as they hit maturity we took Adams and Treloar and ess Shiels amount others.
When together they were already making top 4 nd had it held together would of likely flagged.
You are mistaking early draft picks as part of the core rebuild vs completely decimating a list and tanking for 4 to 5 years systematically.
Where these clubs typically go wrong is they get rid of too much experience including in the 27 to 30 brackets, they also don’t look for trading targeted mature recruits on the way up.
So it took Carlton Melbourne Richmond longer to build the contending lists. Make no mistake Richmond built the core off its early picks then stalled mid table with a raft of pick 9 which is still a quality pick.
They then eventually looked to trade table to fix the flaws and next minute flags came.
You are mis representing the argument no ones saying what you are putting out there as if we want to tank for 5 seasons and trade the whole list out over 26 and never trade.
The argument as well is about building a list that has potential for back 2 back or triple flags. Vs patch working a list together I get why they had another crack with our 30 plus senior players still capable and it worked. But to suggest every list rebuild should be done that way moving forward I can see also going poorly.
Even these last 2 years we won a ridiculous amount of close games had those been reversed we’d have been bottom 4 the last 2 seasons.
17 wins by under a goal or 2 over 2 years it’s in heard of but also suggests we were never truly dominant.
sr36
Hall of Famer
I don't understand what you're actually advocating for and how it'd work. If you don't want to trade players out for the future or bereally s**t.
Are you talking about a team with middling talent genuinely tanking for a couple of years to get 2 top 5 picks? Or are you talking about choosing to stay in the middle of the table for an extended period for a bunch of later top 10 picks - without trying to improve the team in the short and medium term when it comes to recruiting - just looking solely to the longer term future with recruiting?
I don't see how either of them are particularly likely to increase the chance of becoming a team that wins a few flags in a short period, which seems to be your goal.
ThePheonix
Team Captain
This is essentially my argument, so you agree with me that Collingwood doesn’t have the best recruiters in the game.
The question that we should be asking is, "Is Hine the best recruiter?"
I am sure we can find recruiters that are worse but let's not set a low bar.
Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
I'd qualify this slightly by asking whether Hine is the best recruiter for our current circumstances and future needs.
Regardless, I don't think it's a binary proposition. Hypothetically, Hine may be the best recruiter across the last 20 years of picks between 20 and 40; if you can attract the best recruiter of picks between 1 and 20 across the last 20 years, and Hine is prepared to work with that recruiter, you just conclude that a dual recruitment strategy is the best to go forward with.
If Hine isn't prepared to work with that person, then the pros and cons need to be considered and ultimately Wright and the Board will need to make a decision on whether to stick with Hine, or go in a new direction.
True. Hawkins Father/Son and traded for Jeremy Cameron who wanted the regional life.
Unless you have early draft picks (and lets face it the Northern and emerging clubs will always get the best of those) then the only other way to get priority players (guns) is through recruitment.
The "myth" about Geelong having the best recruiters is just that....a myth. Truth is they have a POOL of players every year from their ever burgeoning districts down here (Colac to Queenscliff) that are identified early and then fast tracked via the football factory private schools (Geelong Grammar, College and St.Joey's) straight into the NGA's and The Falcons programs where the very best are then linked to "Geelong Friendly" player managers and sponsors that see to it that these young lads are made very comfortable in their Geelong based communities. When drafting time arrives, sure some of them get picked by oppo and interstate clubs but they are always made aware that "if they ever want to come HOME"...then they'll be very well looked after. And the cream of the Falcons who don't get picked up (who maybe need another year or two to mature physically or who haven't been played in position by the Falcons hierarchy) well they get well remunerated local positions amongst GFL and GDFL teams where they can always be redrafted by the Cats as they see fit...(think Tom Stewart).
So the real crux of Geelong's "brilliant" recruiting has been:
(a) their links to their local footy comps and in particular their local private schools who can provide the Falcons with a never ending stream of top line talent
and
(b) their establishment of a series of "Geelong friendly player managers" who get the players they want when they want them. (Think Patrick, Jeremy Cameron, Ollie Henry)...they've played the go home card on many occasions.
For Collingwood (or indeed any other large Melbourne based club) to emulate this type of scheme we'd be up against 6-7 other clubs all fighting for the same talent. Our links to the Chargers are obvious but as they play and train in a city of 3+ million people, they're obviously more open to being seen and much harder to hide players in a local competition than it is here down in sleepy hollow. We (all the Melbourne clubs) also have no "go home factor" because our lads are already in the biggest footy city in the country and there's only "other" places to go.
Our only hope IS and has been for quite a while to establish a network of "Pies friendly player managers" that steer their proteges towards us instead of interstate or down Geelong road. The arrival of Graham Wright and now Ned Kelly have me hoping that finally (after more than a decade of watching Stephen Wells and his gang manipulate player movement amongst the AFL) that we'd finally start getting our share of the GUN players who want to test the market.
I'm tired of watching trade periods where we hold no sway, where the Locketts, Quinlan's, Lynch's, Daniher's and Cameron's get traded all around us and we don't ever stand a chance.
Player managers hold the keys to the kingdom now and in Wright and Kelly we should have a pretty good guide into how best to deal with them.
The "myth" about Geelong having the best recruiters is just that....a myth. Truth is they have a POOL of players every year from their ever burgeoning districts down here (Colac to Queenscliff) that are identified early and then fast tracked via the football factory private schools (Geelong Grammar, College and St.Joey's) straight into the NGA's and The Falcons programs where the very best are then linked to "Geelong Friendly" player managers and sponsors that see to it that these young lads are made very comfortable in their Geelong based communities. When drafting time arrives, sure some of them get picked by oppo and interstate clubs but they are always made aware that "if they ever want to come HOME"...then they'll be very well looked after. And the cream of the Falcons who don't get picked up (who maybe need another year or two to mature physically or who haven't been played in position by the Falcons hierarchy) well they get well remunerated local positions amongst GFL and GDFL teams where they can always be redrafted by the Cats as they see fit...(think Tom Stewart).
So the real crux of Geelong's "brilliant" recruiting has been:
(a) their links to their local footy comps and in particular their local private schools who can provide the Falcons with a never ending stream of top line talent
and
(b) their establishment of a series of "Geelong friendly player managers" who get the players they want when they want them. (Think Patrick, Jeremy Cameron, Ollie Henry)...they've played the go home card on many occasions.
For Collingwood (or indeed any other large Melbourne based club) to emulate this type of scheme we'd be up against 6-7 other clubs all fighting for the same talent. Our links to the Chargers are obvious but as they play and train in a city of 3+ million people, they're obviously more open to being seen and much harder to hide players in a local competition than it is here down in sleepy hollow. We (all the Melbourne clubs) also have no "go home factor" because our lads are already in the biggest footy city in the country and there's only "other" places to go.
Our only hope IS and has been for quite a while to establish a network of "Pies friendly player managers" that steer their proteges towards us instead of interstate or down Geelong road. The arrival of Graham Wright and now Ned Kelly have me hoping that finally (after more than a decade of watching Stephen Wells and his gang manipulate player movement amongst the AFL) that we'd finally start getting our share of the GUN players who want to test the market.
I'm tired of watching trade periods where we hold no sway, where the Locketts, Quinlan's, Lynch's, Daniher's and Cameron's get traded all around us and we don't ever stand a chance.
Player managers hold the keys to the kingdom now and in Wright and Kelly we should have a pretty good guide into how best to deal with them.
