News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread II

[hilly]

Hardly the apocalypse that the State Government/MSM makes out. To put it in perspective 902 Australians died of influenza last year. All elective surgery has been cancelled, which will lead to countless lives lost. Its like no other disease exists.

Almost as if the controls put in place to date have helped reduce that number. There is a difference between inherent risk and residual risk.

 

[shintemaster]

Almost as if the controls put in place to date have helped reduce that number. There is a difference between inherent risk and residual risk.

Nah mate. Clearly the entire world is in on this scam just to allow Dan Andrew's to enact his post apocalyptic communist vaccination plot against Victorians.

 

[koshari]

No, I don't ”think the decision was to appease people on minimum wage". That's not the point I was making. The decision was to appease Andrews' desire to be perceived as all things to all people - working hand in hand with the big end of town while simultaneously looking after the little guy.

The requirement to embed a social element has pervaded all levels and types of Victorian government contracting. In fact, the bigger the contract, generally the greater the requirement to have it. The large corporations pay lip service to supporting this policy and then go out and subcontract to the lowest bidder to meet their contractual obligations in this respect. Ability of the subcontractor to perform or quality rarely come into the equation.

It's absolutely no surprise it's ended up as such a clusterf***.

you have just colorfully described another version of the race to the bottom scenario.

 

[ferball]

..........and it would still sail miles over your head.

Just cease posting health related rubbish to the members of this board.

Don't tell me what to do.

If I had posted health related rubbish in this thread you might be in a pisition to say something. Cos I didn't you aren't. Youre one of these mildly intelligent people with Dunning-Kruger syndrome tattooed across your neurocircuitry aren't you.

You're not an immunologist or a virologist so your gate keeping comes across as poseurish and needy.

 

[ferball]

What’s a bigger fu** up? I don’t mean by outcome...because that’s obvious.

- Letting the infected cruise ship dock in Sydney.
Or
- Using a private security company to guard the people in iso?

I know, but it's all about Dan the Merciless and his evil cadre of flying monkey vampires.

 

[ferball]

Both epic clusters I reckon VK, however the management post mistake has been far better in NSW. Gladys and Scomo did the same as what Andrews is doing now, deflecting, wait for enquiry etc. However at least for the Ruby Princess the right organisations were appointed to oversee the process (Border Force, Dept of Health) but they clearly screwed up. I think they mistook negative flu results for negative Coronavirus results.

That was the NSW Health Deptt. The Border Nazis didn't really * up.

 

[kaboom kid]

That was the NSW Health Deptt. The Border Nazis didn't really fu** up.

OK, thanks for clarifying. Epic SNAFU for Health then. ....

 

[koshari]

Don't tell me what to do.

If I had posted health related rubbish in this thread you might be in a pisition to say something. Cos I didn't you aren't. Youre one of these mildly intelligent people with Dunning-Kruger syndrome tattooed across your neurocircuitry aren't you.

You're not an immunologist or a virologist so your gate keeping comes across as poseurish and needy.

i had never heard of the Dunning-Kruger curve till you posted it, so it would seem i have just gone over "peak stupidity" and are well on my way with plunging confidence as i approach the point of climbing the curve of enlightenment, having said that iam content in the fact that i are slightly ahead of snake re this
:stein look.

 

[Only Forwards]

What’s a bigger fu** up? I don’t mean by outcome...because that’s obvious.

- Letting the infected cruise ship dock in Sydney.
Or
- Using a private security company to guard the people in iso?

Much like the MRO these things will be judged almost solely by Outcome.

 

[koshari]

I know, but it's all about Dan the Merciless and his evil cadre of flying monkey vampires.

wheres flash gordon and prince baren when you need them
,

 

[kaboom kid]

its bigger than that though, some of these groups are running an active agenda to cause civil disruptions. sure there are the odd ratbag that are acting as lone wolfs with attitude (there always are and and i would be lying if i said i had never believed that way ever myself) but dont be making out for one moment that the 2 women that had their windows busted in were hard luck stories, pre covid it has always been a requirement to produce a drivers license if requested when in control of a vehicle on a public road. cant for one moment think why these people would think all of a sudden that has changed. and then theres the whole "i am a sovereign citizen " rot. if they were to truly embrace this they have to concede they have no right to be using the roads that have been paid for by the taxpaying public. but no they are happy to freeload on what others have provided for without sacrifice to oneself.

Personally I are a hell of a lot more upset about the civil liberties we have forfeited under the illusion of "fighting terrorism" than the temporary measures that have been enacted to save people from premature death.

Yep, would have to agree with everything you said there. Perhaps I am guilty of using omission to suit my narrative? But you busted me good and proper so kudos to you for that.

 

[The acurate one]

s**t!! We may need a new thread.......

US man in his 20s dies of plague

A young man in New Mexico dies of septicaemic plague, 24 hours after Chinese authorities reported the death of a man from bubonic plague in Inner Mongolia.

www.abc.net.au

Chinese man dies of bubonic plague

 

[Snake_Baker]

Is this saying that even those who have been exposed without being infected develop some degree of immunity?

Your question is odd mate. If you're "exposed", you become "infected".

You will then either gain immunity or die.

So in short, getting it creates immunity from it in future?

If it doesn't kill you.

 

[ferball]

To me the freedoms we are being asked to give up are disproprortionate with the severity of the disease. Ie we didn't have lockdown last year to prevent flu deaths, 900 people died and noone noticed or cared. Not sure a person feeding a horse in the middle of the night poses a high transmission risk to other people?However I'm not really across that story, so I might be wrong.

That is the severity of it right now, but even this outbreak appears to be very well controlled because we haven't seen exponential rates of increasing cases for extended periods of time.

Months ago, in Massechtsetts in the US they had 4000 deaths from I dunno how many tens of thousands of cases, right now it's getting on for 9000 deaths from a total of 120k cases. Not counting unconfirmed COVID deaths.

While it's not a fair comparison it's about the closest you'll get to Vic or NSW on terms of population number, population distribution, economic demographics etc. So even tho it might be a flawed comparison for me it's close enough to use to compare how we are travelling to a similar place where it is out of control.

 

[kaboom kid]

Saying Sweden had less deaths than the UK is akin to saying North has had a better season than Adelaide and therefore that is a good result. You are comparing two countries with the very worst outcomes on deaths per capita.
Flattening the curve, and by extension lockdown, definitely saves lives even by some of the measures you have talked about. One of the biggest issues from the early wave in Wuhan, Italy, Spain, France, the UK, New York etc is that the sheer volume of Covid19 cases overwhelmed the hospital systems making it difficult for treating covid19 or any other condition effectively at that time. Buying time also allows the medical community to work out what treatment options work best to minimise the impact and save lives.

I haven't seen anyone suggest that herd immunity is 20%. I have seen a suggestion that the virus may mutate to less virulent strain overtime as killing the host tends to stop the spread of the really dangerous strains.

Sweden also outperformed Spain, Italy and France Switzerland and the Netherlands in terms of mortality all of which implemented hard lockdown. Sweden never closed schools and limited gatherings to 500 max. Just recommend social distancing and sanitisation/hygiene.
Highlighted in this article

Daniel Hannan: Sweden settled in for the long haul, and now doesn't need to worry about a second surge | Conservative Home

Having correctly judged that there would be no immediate vaccine, it opted for a sustainable response.

www.conservativehome.com

Yes , would agree flattening the curve to buy time is a sensible strategy.
Numerous articles about 20% herd immunity. The cruise ships demonstrated that phenomenon.

Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought – update

By Nic Lewis I showed in my May 10th article Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought that inhomogeneity within a population in the susceptibility and in the social-connec…

judithcurry.com

Coronavirus: could it be burning out after 20% of a population is infected?

There is speculation about whether a population can achieve some sort of immunity to the virus with as little as 20% infected.

theconversation.com

 

[Snake_Baker]

Don't tell me what to do.

Shut up.

 

[koshari]

Yep, would have to agree with everything you said there. Perhaps I am guilty of using omission to suit my narrative? But you busted me good and proper so kudos to you for that.

Nothing personal in it , just pi$$es me that these clowns even get the oxygen they do, i wouldn't be surprised if that eve black wasn't even deliberately playing the game to get a bit of publicity for her stripping gig when everything opens back up. you know what they say, no publicity is bad publicity in the entertainment business.

 

[koshari]

That is the severity of it right now, but even this outbreak appears to be very well controlled because we haven't seen exponential rates of increasing cases for extended periods of time.

also take into account we are in the middle of winter and te traditional higher instance of virus season where the US is in the middle of summer, surly things could have been a LOT worse without taking proactive measure here. again not excusing the obvious cluster*** regarding the hotel quarantine management, but its not like you can just give up after such a stuff up.

 

[Themanbun]

Sweden also outperformed Spain, Italy and France Switzerland and the Netherlands in terms of mortality all of which implemented hard lockdown. Sweden never closed schools and limited gatherings to 500 max. Just recommend social distancing and sanitisation/hygiene.
Highlighted in this article

Daniel Hannan: Sweden settled in for the long haul, and now doesn't need to worry about a second surge | Conservative Home

Having correctly judged that there would be no immediate vaccine, it opted for a sustainable response.

www.conservativehome.com

Yes , would agree flattening the curve to buy time is a sensible strategy.
Numerous articles about 20% herd immunity. The cruise ships demonstrated that phenomenon.

Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought – update

By Nic Lewis I showed in my May 10th article Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought that inhomogeneity within a population in the susceptibility and in the social-connec…

judithcurry.com

Coronavirus: could it be burning out after 20% of a population is infected?

There is speculation about whether a population can achieve some sort of immunity to the virus with as little as 20% infected.

theconversation.com

How did Denmark go by comparison to its Swedish neighbours?

 

[ferball]

Thanks a lot for your support. I feel like a complete pariah. I realise that 90% of Australia disagrees with me. However I believe that with time that figure will change

I hope I haven't contributed to making you feel that way. I actually have a lot of sympathy for what you are saying. I am definitely sus on the whole loss of civil liberties aspect of this. And of the corporate disaster capitalism bullshit that is coming as the likes of Bill Gates and Peter Thiel try to exert more control over populations exposed to their stuff.

But all the emergency services stuff I've done has also given me another pov.

In an emergency, and that is what this situation is, ie whether you agree or not that is how the state and the people are both treating it. So in an emergency all bets are off. In big emergencies it's not just lives and property it's Social and physical infrastructure that is under threat. Ie entire communities and the state itself.

And in those situations the usual rules or game rules that govern our lives no longer work to keep us alive and healthy. It's the definition of an emergency really. The last or least priority we have after protecting lives and property is "restoring normality". Ie social and physical infrastructure - normal society, ie communities and the state.

The point of all that is - this isn't normal and could get very bad. We haven't seen a pandemic like this. And at New Years, not that long ago we had no idea it was coming. SARS and MERS both have much higher fatality rates, 10% and over 35% for MERS.

So a lot of what is happening is driven by massive uncertainty and justified fear and even now we don't know the long term consequences of this virus in terms of after effects of long term immunity. How long does immunity last? 6 months? A year? A decade? It's a novel... Ie new virus.

We still don't know when the world will be ready to "restore normality" or even if it will.

 

[kaboom kid]

Nothing personal in it , just pi$$es me that these clowns even get the oxygen they do, i wouldn't be surprised if that eve black wasn't even deliberately playing the game to get a bit of publicity for her stripping gig when everything opens back up. you know what they say, no publicity is bad publicity in the entertainment business.

Yes perhaps so. I'd have to confess to having a bit of a crush....a civil libertarian stripper is my ideal woman. Seeing things through rose coloured glasses I guess.

 

[kaboom kid]

How did Denmark go by comparison to its Swedish neighbours?

The other Nordic countries had lockdowns performed far better than Sweden in terms of health outcome so far I think mortality rates etc almost as good as NZ. I think Denmarks was one of those, definitely Norway and Finland. However I believe they will end up with similar deaths per capita in the end. It will just take longer.

 

[Themanbun]

The other Nordic countries had lockdowns performed far better than Sweden in terms of health outcome so far I think mortality rates etc almost as good as NZ. I think Denmarks was one of those, definitely Norway and Finland. However I believe they will end up with similar deaths per capita in the end. It will just take longer.

I hate treating public health as a gigantic experiment, but I guess we'll see.

 

[sbdan]

Glad to hear you're not facing the loss of civil liberties we're currently facing in Victoria SN. Just to bring you up to speed, we're not allowed to leave our homes between 8 PM and 5 AM, all schools are closed and police are allowed to enter our homes without a search warrant. And our State Government has treated democracy with contempt with our Health Minister playing on her phone and refusing to answer questions on the botched quarantine in parliament. The government tried to close parliament by deeming it non essential. I would argue its never been more essential. Some of the highest fines for non compliance in the Western World. Citizens encouraged to grass each other up for a lack of compliance. Police smashed a womans car window in because she refused to give them information at a checkpoint. Complete loss of freedom and democracy for a disease that has caused 278 deaths in the year to date. 44 cases in ICU out of a total of 4000 beds ie a bit over 1%. Hardly the apocalypse that the State Government/MSM makes out. To put it in perspective 902 Australians died of influenza last year. All elective surgery has been cancelled, which will lead to countless lives lost. Its like no other disease exists.

Absolute gold. Thanks for posting this.

We didn't hear much about the influenza crisis last year. 902 deaths is far too many. We must lock down indefinitely.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I hate treating public health as a gigantic experiment, but I guess we'll see.

It appears to be a giant political experiment anyway.