Conspiracy Theory Coronavirus: Origins

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Can we revisit the old addage of a "lack of evidence" also. If you do zero research into a problem, do zero analysis, it does not mean the problem cant and wont exist. It actually flies in the fact of our actual argument as well. We are arguing a misdirection of resourcing at the expense of other issues and believe it or not researching the impact and gathering evidence is a part of the misdirection of resourcing.

The constant argument from Malfice and co bounces back to the "lack of evidence" but that is hardly a justifiable answer. If I go shoot up the school and the police dont turn up to count the bodies and investigate the crime, should I just get off scot free for the forseeable future, did I actually do anything wrong? If nobody counted it or looked into it, its a non issue it appears so **** it, may as well go shoot it up tomorrow?

Fact is ignoring a problem, doesnt mean it isnt there. You gotta be a bit more open minded then that. You need to realise that a pandemic is a 10 year consequential event and simply let the facts gather by themselves over time as opposed to just flat out ruling it out as a option altogether because people who dont want the answer refused to go look for it. The facts will come naturally because as time goes on the eye test will prevail. As death counts lower in 2025 in developed countries and death counts drastically increase in food insecure and developing countries will we see the true impact that people simply were too weak to acknowledge or measure

 

[Malifice]

The constant argument from Malfice and co bounces back to the "lack of evidence" but that is hardly a justifiable answer. If I go shoot up the school and the police dont turn up to count the bodies and investigate the crime, should I just get off scot free for the forseeable future, did I actually do anything wrong? If nobody counted it or looked into it, its a non issue it appears so fu** it, may as well go shoot it up tomorrow?

As a Judge, I certainly wouldn't convict you beyond reasonable doubt without any evidence that's for sure.

If someone here (or anywhere) makes a claim about an event or truth, I want to see the evidence so I can make my own mind up.

For example in this thread, I conceded I was wrong about Imperial college predictions, when presented with evidence.

It's what I don't get with all the conspiracy nutters in here. All prepared to ignore overwhelming independently verifiable evidence (from multiple unconnected sources, globally), and actual science, and actual editorially fact checked news reports in favour of outlandish global conspiracies, supported by no credible evidence at all, and tenuous links, based on the ravings of internet crazies, and far right wing agitators (and more than a few Russian bots).

This is how that looks:

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[GuzzLG]

No it doesn't.

Section 198 of Division 3 of the same Act, requires the Minister to declare a State of Emergency, requires the Minister to constantly update Parliament on the progress and of any emergency powers so exercised under the Act, and limits the COVID-19 state of emergency to 12 months.

During the State of Emergency the CHO can exercise Emergency Powers, which are contained in s200 of the same Act.

They are:



They're Executive powers, not Legislative ones.

Not only can the Premier, Minister or Secretary override any of those decisions by the Chief Health Officer at will, but Division 1 of the Act also provides a method of Judicial appeals to the VCAT (and obviously Victoria's Supreme Court).

If you think the CHO has not provided you with procedural fairness or natural justice, or has acted ultra vires in the exercise of these powers granted to him by Parliament, or if you think the Ministers declaration of a State of Emergency was also invalid for failure to take into account all relevant information, then I urge you to take it up with VCAT or the Supreme Court of Victoria.

You can play whatever semantic game you like.

When Brett Sutton decrees that “you cannot leave your home for more than an hour” and creates a penalty if you fail to comply, he is creating a law and exercising a legislative function.

Doing it under the cover of an emergency doesn’t change that, it simply becomes delegated legislation.

I’ll ask again, do we have an emergency at present?

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Hundreds of reputable Media agencies, national Health departments, Doctors, Nurses etc are also in on this conspiracy as well.

Were you alive during the WMD fiasco? If so, what do you remember about it?

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Unf#ckingbelievable that over 10,000 dimwits in Victoria have gone out to be tested in the last 24hrs.

It's close to 1 month now with no new cases & they're still going out in droves to be tested.

Some of that would be people getting tested that don't want to. If you are having even a a minor procedure in hospital you have to have a test beforehand. I know someone that visited a work site and he failed the temperature check, had to have a test before he was allowed back on the site even though he was fine.

 

[Malifice]

When Brett Sutton decrees that “you cannot leave your home for more than an hour” and creates a penalty if you fail to comply, he is creating a law and exercising a legislative function.

No, he is not. He is exercising an Executive function, granted to him by the Legislature in the above Act, and under the supervision of the Premier, Minister for Health and the Secretary.

It's no different to how the Commonwealth Immigration Minister can revoke, deny or approve citizenship plus make dozens of other directions or decisions under the Migration act (including mandatory imprisonment, even of minors, offshore, and indefinitely - plus also forcible deportations).

If you have a problem with how the CHO (or the Minister) is exercising those powers, you have a right of review in the Courts. As both are a members of the Executive, all their decisions are subject to the usual rules of Administrative law (they cannot act ultra vires, they must take into account all relevant information, they cant take into account irrelevant decision, they must provide natural justice and procedural fairness, and those decisions cannot be completely unreasonable, or 'Wednesbury' unreasonable).

For what it's worth, I find the Immigration powers far more draconian as the Minister is protected by a 'privative clause' in the Migration Act that renders his decisions non-reviewable by the Courts. Peter Dutton could literally send Border Force Goons to your place right now, deport you to an offshore processing facility, detain you there indefinitely and make a decision to revoke your citizenship and there would be little you could do about it.

If you want to scream about Government tyranny, look no further than the Migration Act (Cth). When Refugees are getting detained in offshore facilities by the Executive for years on end we dont blink an eye, but when the CHO orders people to stay indoors for a few weeks in response to a global pandemic we lose our shit.

 

[Malifice]

Were you alive during the WMD fiasco? If so, what do you remember about it?

The Americans and their allies (us and the UK) making outrageous claims that Iraq had WMD's while the UN (Hans Blix) and EU and other nations including China and Russia opposed this thoroughly and unequivocally. There were mass global protests about the invasion also.

The Yanks went in anyway, with a 'Coalition of the Willing.'

 

[Malifice]

burge13 you keep disagreeing with my posts.

How about you explain why with the post eh? Like what is incorrect about 10,031

 

[Malifice]

You do know it's not going to stop you getting sick right, all vaccines ever do is reduce your chances not bullet proof you against the virus.

It'll reduce the chances of me getting sick, and when sufficient people are vaccinated will provide Herd immunity for all of us.

It'll also likely be a requirement for international travel, like the Yellow fever vaccination is.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

The Americans and their allies (us and the UK) making outrageous claims that Iraq had WMD's

Don't forget the media's involvement.

while the UN (Hans Blix) and EU and other nations including China and Russia opposed this thoroughly and unequivocally.

In what way?

There were mass global protests about the invasion also.

You know there've been massive protests in various countries about the lockdowns too, yeah?

And there would be even more if they weren't banned by our loving caring democratic governments in places like Australia.

 

[GuzzLG]

No, he is not. He is exercising an Executive function, granted to him by the Legislature in the above Act, and under the supervision of the Premier, Minister for Health and the Secretary.

It's no different to how the Commonwealth Immigration Minister can revoke, deny or approve citizenship plus make dozens of other directions or decisions under the Migration act (including mandatory imprisonment, even of minors, offshore, and indefinitely - plus also forcible deportations).

If you have a problem with how the CHO (or the Minister) is exercising those powers, you have a right of review in the Courts. As both are a members of the Executive, all their decisions are subject to the usual rules of Administrative law (they cannot act ultra vires, they must take into account all relevant information, they cant take into account irrelevant decision, they must provide natural justice and procedural fairness, and those decisions cannot be completely unreasonable, or 'Wednesbury' unreasonable).

For what it's worth, I find the Immigration powers far more draconian as the Minister is protected by a 'privative clause' in the Migration Act that renders his decisions non-reviewable by the Courts. Peter Dutton could literally send Border Force Goons to your place right now, deport you to an offshore processing facility, detain you there indefinitely and make a decision to revoke your citizenship and there would be little you could do about it.

If you want to scream about Government tyranny, look no further than the Migration Act (Cth). When Refugees are getting detained in offshore facilities by the Executive for years on end we dont blink an eye, but when the CHO orders people to stay indoors for a few weeks in response to a global pandemic we lose our sh*t.

Nope.

Sutton is writing laws. You can spin this however you like but that’s the reality.

You keep avoiding the question.

Are we in an emergency?

Because if 0 cases for a month, no people in hospital counts as a public health emergency, then we may as well just end Australia and make our leading health bureaucrat King.

 

[burge13]

burge13 you keep disagreeing with my posts.

How about you explain why with the post eh? Like what is incorrect about 10,031

You're just arguing for arguing sake. Another person so obsessed with corona they not only don't see the problems caused by the 'cure' but don't even care they don't see it. You're either willfully stupid or a simply really bad person, and I'd like to think it isn't the latter, but the former isn't much better going out of your way to be ignorant.

Your attitude is sending people bust, preventing families from saying goodbye to loved ones, and the many, many other problems I've raised with it and you instantly ignore.

No one disagrees these draconian measures 'work in stopping covid', what you coronabros just refuse to realize is the magnitude of negatives that come with it. Inhumane problems like not allowing funerals, near-future problems like early-onset dementia due to isolation and unemployment/underemployment, and future problems which will be 10 fold what we have now. Your obsession with corona and the blinkers on to (refuse to) see anything else is, unquestionably, making life worse for more people than you're 'saving'. What's worse is the sheer arrogance and high horse attitude on top of it

I have no care for conspiracy and the like so don't straw man like hawkie does claiming youtube troof and the like. Doesn't apply to me

 

[burge13]

Nope.

Sutton is writing laws. You can spin this however you like but that’s the reality.

You keep avoiding the question.

Are we in an emergency?

Because if 0 cases for a month, no people in hospital counts as a public health emergency, then we may as well just end Australia and make our leading health bureaucrat King.

It's an emergency mate. Can't you see the hospitals overflowing and people dying in the streets!

I work in health here, I can assure our hospital capacity was less this year than any on record. I mean there's being 'cautious' and then there's going completely OTT and ****ing the state 6 ways from Sunday like they've done because they refuse to admit their early calcs were off and it isn't as dangerous as first thought. A good thing you'd have thought but not politicians. This is an admission of being wrong and they won't do it. It's like arguing with an umpire, no matter how much logic and what replays say, Ray Chamberlain will not admit to being wrong

 

[Malifice]

Don't forget the media's involvement.

I was in a Special Forces unit at the time with a high level Security clearance. We had Sky news (2002 Sky news) on the TV in most of our rooms.

I was accurately aware of what was going on at the time, from a government level, and also in the media, and the media (at least in Australia) did not paint it as in any way proven that there were WMD's. There were mass protests, zero evidence of any WMD's (barring a laughable presentation by Powell to the UN SC) and so forth.

The Media in no way were backing up the USA's claims, and the same can be said for the British media, and most of the USA's media reporting (barring Fox news of course).

In what way?

Here are the positions of just the Security council members:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France

• France - On 20 January 2003, Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said, "We think that military intervention would be the worst possible solution," although France believed that Iraq may have had an ongoing chemical and nuclear weapons program. Villepin went on to say that he believed the presence of UN weapons inspectors had frozen Iraq's weapons programs. France also suggested that it would veto any resolution allowing military intervention offered by the US or Britain. The most important French speech during the crisis was made by De Villepin at the Security Council on the 14 February 2003, after Hans Blix presented his detailed report (see below). De Villepin detailed the three major risks of a "premature recourse to the military option", especially the "incalculable consequences for the stability of this scarred and fragile region". He said that "the option of war might seem a priori to be the swiftest, but let us not forget that having won the war, one has to build peace". He emphasized that "real progress is beginning to be apparent" through the inspections, and that, "given the present state of our research and intelligence, in liaison with our allies", the alleged links between al-Qaeda and the regime in Baghdad explained by Colin Powell were not established. He concluded by referring to the dramatic experience of "old Europe" during World War II. This "impassioned" speech "against war on Iraq, or immediate war on Iraq", won "an unprecedented applause", reported the BBC's Sir David Frost (BBC News). The complete text is available at the Embassy of France in the United States. Britain and the US sharply criticized France for this position in March 2003.[citation needed]
• Russia - On the same day, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said that "Russia deems that there is no evidence that would justify a war in Iraq." On January 28, however, Russia's opinion had begun to shift following a report the previous day by UN inspectors which stated that Iraq had cooperated on a practical level with monitors, but had not demonstrated a "genuine acceptance" of the need to disarm. Russian President Vladimir Putin indicated that he would support a US-led war if things did not change and Iraq continued to show a reluctance to completely cooperate with inspection teams. However, Putin continued to stress that the US must not go alone in any such military endeavor, but instead must work through the UN Security Council. He also stressed the need for giving the UN inspectors more time. Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov also garnered unusual applause inside the chamber with his speech against the war.[citation needed]
• China - On January 23, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said Beijing was "worried and uneasy about the large-scale military build-up" in the Gulf region and that China's position on potential war with Iraq was "extremely close" to France's. Although the People's Republic of China voted in favor of UNSCR 1441, Chinese officials repeatedly spoke in support of a diplomatic solution, including continued weapons inspections.[9]
• Germany - On January 22, German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, at a meeting with French president Jacques Chirac, said that he and Chirac would do all they could to avert war. At the time, Germany was presiding over the Security Council.
• Angola - Angola supported continued inspections, but had not taken a stand on disarmament by military action.
• Cameroon - Cameroon encouraged the continued inspections, but had not taken a firm stand on whether the country would support a US led strike to invade Iraq.
• Chile - Chile indicated that it would like inspections to continue, but had not taken a position on the use of military force to disarm Iraq.
• Guinea - Guinea supported further inspections, but had not taken a position on the use of military force to disarm Iraq.
• Mexico - Mexico supported further inspections, and hinted that it would support a US-led military campaign if it were backed by the UN. The country also hinted that it might consider supporting a military campaign without UN backing as well. President Vicente Fox heavily criticized the war when it started and Mexican diplomats described their conversations with US officials as hostile in tone and that Washington was demonstrating little concern for the constraints of the Mexican government whose people were overwhelmingly opposed to the war with Iraq. (USA Today)
• Pakistan - Pakistan supported continued inspections.
• Syria - Syria felt that Iraq was cooperating and meeting its obligations under UN resolutions. Syria would have liked to see the crippling UN sanctions on Iraq lifted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...raq_War#Positions_of_Security_Council_members

And thats just members of the UN security council, who's own weapons inspector (Hans Blix) who had inspected hundreds of Iraqi sites had found zero evidence of any WMD's and reported that Iraq was fully cooperating with all UN requirements.

When the Yanks knew they couldn't get UN security council approval (and it would probably have been Vetoed by China, France or Russia in any event) they went it alone with the support of the 'Coalition of the Willing'.

I know this because I watched the news. I wasn't present at any of the UN security council meetings personally.

You know there've been massive protests in various countries about the lockdowns too, yeah?

Yeah; usually by far right wing flogs and sovereign citizens, and the same types of people who follow Pete Evans on Instagram and think Pizza shops harbor paedo sex rings.

 

[Malifice]

It's an emergency mate. Can't you see the hospitals overflowing and people dying in the streets!

They would be if we followed the USA as you propose we do:

Conditions inside the US's hospitals are deteriorating by the day as the virus rages across the country. Overwhelmed medical facilities are converting chapels, cafeterias, waiting rooms, hallways, and parking garages into patient treatment areas, while staff members are desperately calling around to other centres in search of open beds.

The number of people in hospital with COVID-19 in the US has doubled in the past month, and set new records every day this week.

As of Tuesday, nearly 77,000 people were hospitalised with the virus.

Hospitals treat patients in cafes and a garage as US surpasses 250,000 COVID-19 deaths

Overwhelmed hospitals in the US are converting chapels, cafeterias, waiting rooms, hallways, and even a parking garage into patient treatment areas as the country struggles to handle surging coronavirus cases nationwide.

www.abc.net.au

Far more people in the U.S. are hospitalized for COVID-19 now than at any other moment of the coronavirus pandemic — more than twice as many as just a month ago.

Hospitals in some of the hardest-hit states are exhausting every health care worker, hospital room and piece of equipment to evade the worst-case scenario, when crisis plans have to be set in motion and care may have to be rationed.

Many states are warning they're on the brink. On the ground, equipment and staff shortages are already straining the system and changing how hospitals provide care.

Near Crisis, Some Hospitals Face Tough Decisions In Caring For Floods Of Patients

Hospitals are getting so crowded with COVID-19 patients that they're having to resort to workarounds to treat them all. Experts warn this may hamper doctors' ability to save lives.

www.npr.org

 

[Malifice]

Are we in an emergency?

Yes we are.

If you think we are not, and Sutton is acting unreasonably take it to the Supreme Court of Victoria for a review of his decision.

Really it sounds like you need to take the Victorian Health Minister to Court though seeing as they are the ones that declared the State of Emergency under the Act.

 

[Malifice]

Your attitude is sending people bust, preventing families from saying goodbye to loved ones, and the many, many other problems I've raised with it and you instantly ignore.

Doesnt apply to me? Seriously?

I was backpacking in South America when Rona hit, and had to fork out 6,000 bucks on 7 flights (3 of which were cancelled) just to get home. My South American holiday was cut short by months and my new Swiss travel girlfriend also had to return home to Switzerland, tearing us apart.

I've now been doing 9 months of a long distance relationship with a stunningly beautiful and amazing girl a fair whack younger than me, while I hope to God some Swiss douchebag doesn't ride up to her house on a Cow and sweep her off her feet with 'Federer and Chill'. We Skype every day and it's killing me.

My friends wedding in Frieberg Germany in June of this year had to be postponed, and put off to next year, and I might not be able to get to that.

My mother (who lost her husband to brain cancer last year) was stuck in Melbourne during lockdown and it nearly broke her, and I couldn't get to her (or her me) due to WA's hard border. My own depression was exacerbated following the death of my brother a few years ago. I now work in DV assisting people who have suffered from the increased DV caused by lockdowns (we're using a grant of money provided by the Government for this purpose). My roomate's partner is in Adelaide, and they were also forced to do long distance for yonks due to WA's hard border. I did my time in quarrantine, and this whole thing has cost me probably ten thousand of dollars in flights, accommodation and other out of pocket expenses.

I could go on mate, but this shit has affected me as well, and I'm more than mindful of the effect it has on others. I'm in my 40's and in my prime 'neck myself' years. It's not like I'm sitting here having a great time while others suffer.

Even in the above context, I would rather do it the way we have, over the way the Yanks have gone about it.

Is our system perfect? No I don't think so; some of the Border closures and International travel bans go too far (I'd like to be able to travel internationally as long as I quarantine in an approved quarantine facility on my return, and pass a COVID test at the end for example). We need more money in mental health, and elsewhere to mitigate the fallout. But I would take all the above over what I see happening in the UK or USA any day of the week.

Dont sit there and preach to me that It aint affecting me as well though, or make absurd claims that 'corona isn't happening'. You dont know me at all.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

I was in a Special Forces unit at the time with a high level Security clearance.

Yeah; usually by far right wing flogs and sovereign citizens, and the same types of people who follow Pete Evans on Instagram and think Pizza shops harbor paedo sex rings.

Would you have been saying the same things about protesters against the Iraq invasion?

Here's footage from a protest in Germany. These guys have probably never heard of Pete Evans.

 

[GuzzLG]

Yes we are.

If you think we are not, and Sutton is acting unreasonably take it to the Supreme Court of Victoria for a review of his decision.

Really it sounds like you need to take the Victorian Health Minister to Court though seeing as they are the ones that declared the State of Emergency under the Act.

On what basis do you think that there is, right now, an emergency?

Because of what “could” happen?

That sounds like the norm or the status quoto me. Bad things are always potentially imminent.

Should the whole summer be declared a state of emergency because we could get bushfires any day?

If you think we are in an emergency at present, tell me when you think the emergency is over and how will we know?

 

[burge13]

Doesnt apply to me? Seriously?

I was backpacking in South America when Rona hit, and had to fork out 6,000 bucks on 7 flights (3 of which were cancelled) just to get home. My South American holiday was cut short by months and my new Swiss travel girlfriend also had to return home to Switzerland, tearing us apart.

I've now been doing 9 months of a long distance relationship with a stunningly beautiful and amazing girl a fair whack younger than me, while I hope to God some Swiss douchebag doesn't ride up to her house on a Cow and sweep her off her feet with 'Federer and Chill'. We Skype every day and it's killing me.

My friends wedding in Frieberg Germany in June of this year had to be postponed, and put off to next year, and I might not be able to get to that.

My mother (who lost her husband to brain cancer last year) was stuck in Melbourne during lockdown and it nearly broke her, and I couldn't get to her (or her me) due to WA's hard border. My own depression was exacerbated following the death of my brother a few years ago. I now work in DV assisting people who have suffered from the increased DV caused by lockdowns (we're using a grant of money provided by the Government for this purpose). My roomate's partner is in Adelaide, and they were also forced to do long distance for yonks due to WA's hard border. I did my time in quarrantine, and this whole thing has cost me probably ten thousand of dollars in flights, accommodation and other out of pocket expenses.

I could go on mate, but this sh*t has affected me as well, and I'm more than mindful of the effect it has on others. I'm in my 40's and in my prime 'neck myself' years. It's not like I'm sitting here having a great time while others suffer.

Even in the above context, I would rather do it the way we have, over the way the Yanks have gone about it.

Is our system perfect? No I don't think so; some of the Border closures and International travel bans go too far (I'd like to be able to travel internationally as long as I quarantine in an approved quarantine facility on my return, and pass a COVID test at the end for example). We need more money in mental health, and elsewhere to mitigate the fallout. But I would take all the above over what I see happening in the UK or USA any day of the week.

Dont sit there and preach to me that It aint affecting me as well though, or make absurd claims that 'corona isn't happening'. You dont know me at all.

A) I didn't preach to anyone it's not affecting them but maybe if you woke up a little you'd realize we needn't do this at all? Those negatives you've listed alone with your family far outweigh the positives of lockdowns. On top of your direct side effects, there are millions more

Our health care system can handle it. We don't need to be so 'cautious' anymore. Borders should be open, families reunited, and life back to 99% normal. Especially in summer where we know coronaviruses don't spread... Any graph will show you that

B) We are vastly different from those countries. Apples to oranges and it's nothing but media hysteria that you're comparing us to the UK. I don't need to comment on that further, it's just ridiculous.

C) I wish you and your family/friends nothing but good. Same with hawkie who keeps wishing lockdowns on everyone. By stopping this nonsense you can get your life back?

The virus is not as dangerous as they said (over 30x less dangerous in fact). This is a good thing. The risk is very ****ing minimal. Best of all most old people want their life back too, they don't want to spend their last days alone so despite you wanting to 'protect' them. Very few want it. in fact, due to the 20% rise in dementia/Alzheimers and the fact covid won't hurt 20% of the 80+ population you've got a net negative result there. Quite literally hurt more than harmed

Add to this, just in Adelaide alone 12,000 additional people will fall under the poverty line this year. On top of whatever the normal rate is. We aren't anywhere near 12,000 serious covid cases and never will be. How many children's educations are ruined? How many didn't get to say goodbye? Is all of this dawning on you that perhaps by being so blinded by covid you've hurt more than helped? Take the blinkers off, the world is going to crumble around you when business goes under, banks want their money back, cancer screenings catch up and so on. The covid obsession has had a net negative result...

Spell me the 'i'd rather be homeless than dead'. What an idiotic attitude when it can easily be avoided letting people stay in work.

The coronabros have torn families apart, send people to ruin and best of all, they did it from the comfort of their couch watching Netflix and typing shit on FB like "stay home, we're all in this together" while they weren't effected, or stood down. Good people these hypocrites /s

Most importantly, why did 2020 become the year we can no longer manage our own health?! Every year we've been allowed to take risk, but not this with a slightly worse flu. Mental illness at this point. There's no coming back for some people, they're too far gone now wearing ****ing masks alone in their car with the windows up

 

[burge13]

Aside from the arguing, where'd you go in South America? I want to do the same, not sure I have the bottle to travel alone through there for a long period though. Soft I know...

 

[Malifice]

I don't give a shit if you do. It's true.

Here's footage from a protest in Germany. These guys have probably never heard of Pete Evans.

They have heard of Hitler though:

BERLIN -- A German government official warned Tuesday that anti-Semitism is emerging as a common position among people protesting pandemic lockdown measures who otherwise come from widely differing political backgrounds.

Felix Klein, who was appointed in 2018 to head the government's efforts to combat anti-Semitism, said that hatred against Jews in Germany has increased during the coronavirus pandemic.

He noted that anti-Semitic conspiracy theories have been spread by people who believe in alternative healing and peace campaigners as well as by Germany's far-right scene, which has used the protests to mobilize supporters.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/germany-warns-of-anti-semitism-among-lockdown-protests-1.5202395

 

[Malifice]

A) I didn't preach to anyone it's not affecting them but maybe if you woke up a little you'd realize we needn't do this at all? Those negatives you've listed alone with your family far outweigh the positives of lockdowns.

No, they don't.

I travel a lot and have a lot of international friends. They're all in awe of how we're managing here.

Id rather have it our way (or how the Kiwis are running it), than how it's going in the UK or USA.

Add to this, just in Adelaide alone 12,000 additional people will fall under the poverty line this year.

Leaving aside my advocacy for UBI above, hasnt the Government passed laws stopping landlords from evicting people, providing moratoriums on utilitiy payments, early access to Super and Jobkeeper payments (plus doubling the rate of Jobseeker) while also throwing cash at mental health, DV and other areas?

We can have lockdowns and a low COVID tally, AND address those issues you realise?

Aside from the arguing, where'd you go in South America? I want to do the same, not sure I have the bottle to travel alone through there for a long period though. Soft I know...

Three months in Central America starting in Cancun and working my way south to Panama, where I sailed around the Darien Gap to Colombia for a month, then Rio for Carnivale. Made it as far as Foz De Iguazu before rona hit.

Solo travelling, backpacking. In my 40's. If you don't know who the creepy old guy in the hostel is... its you.

Crazy good time though. Sex, drugs, ruins, culture and crazy adventures. There were 18 year old girls doing it solo. Brush up on your Spanish and you'll be fine.

Do it. Start saving now.

PM me for details.

 

[Malifice]

On what basis do you think that there is, right now, an emergency?

There is a global pandemic that has killed literally 1.5 million people (and rising), and (based on projections from similar countries like the UK and USA) if it got into the community here, would be killing nearly 200 people per day (and rising).

That's what basis I use to think there is, right now, an emergency.

 

[GuzzLG]

There is a global pandemic that has killed literally 1.5 million people (and rising), and (based on projections from similar countries like the UK and USA) if it got into the community here, would be killing nearly 200 people per day (and rising).

That's what basis I use to think there is, right now, an emergency.

Were we in an emergency during the Ebola outbreak?

IF it got into the community here then it would be pretty bad.

And it hasn’t killed “literally” 1.5 million people.

1.5 million people have been classified as dying whether or not covid was a contributing cause of death and in many cases without even testing for the virus and merely on the speculation of a doctor while flu and pneumonia deaths have mysteriously plummeted.