Science/Environment Corporate filth - how bad can it get?

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Rear Admiral

Rear Admiral

Club Legend
Jun 3, 2013
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Adelaide
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Just recently I watched an episode of Four Corners:


There's been all manner of corporate and economic bullsh*t going on recent years, but this recent bit of skulduggery takes the cake. According to this Four Corners articles, it's gotten to the point where (in some seasons) it's more profitable for these corporations to simply sell back the water they've acquired, more than to grow any crops. This is nuckin' futs. The electricity companies have been screwing us for ages, and now it's water. People need to write to their Members of Parliament to put a stop to this idiocy.
 
Rear Admiral said:
Just recently I watched an episode of Four Corners:


There's been all manner of corporate and economic bullsh*t going on recent years, but this recent bit of skulduggery takes the cake. According to this Four Corners articles, it's gotten to the point where (in some seasons) it's more profitable for these corporations to simply sell back the water they've acquired, more than to grow any crops. This is nuckin' futs. The electricity companies have been screwing us for ages, and now it's water. People need to write to their Members of Parliament to put a stop to this idiocy.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately writing to members of parliament only works on the presumption that they represent our interests above those of their Key Stakeholders.

In response to your question though, "how bad can corporate filth get?" apparently in nuclear fission and cancer the division of nuclei and cells respectively reaches a limit based on mass etc + organism size etc. In both cases the process ends after much pain and suffering.

In compound interest, the amount of money owed follows the same trajectory initially, yet this phenomena can continually exponentiate well beyond any reasonable representation of the loan, as work for income, and can continue even into future generations, causing mass suffering without limit.

Thus the potential for corporate filth is limitless.
 

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Murray-Darling debate caught my eye a year or so ago and came to the conclusion those who owned the water rights is sitting on a "gold mine"

It takes: » 5 litres of water to produce a single almond » 120 litres of water to produce a glass of wine » 200 litres of water to produce a glass of milk » 15,000 litres of water produce one kilo of beef!

I have invested my hard earnt in one company that has water rights currently valued at $152.7 million.
 
jason pm said:
Corporate filth, Political filth, media filth. We all act out of self interest they just do it on a gargantuan scale, no surprises here.
Click to expand...
That should give us hope shouldn't it?
We know that in a capitalist system the corporations will chase profit above all else, therefore all it should take is the right policy in place so that the profits can be made by incentivising the behaviours we want to encourage.

It's when companies/politicians pretend that they are acting for altruistic reasons that I start to get worried.
 
Fryman said:
That should give us hope shouldn't it?
We know that in a capitalist system the corporations will chase profit above all else, therefore all it should take is the right policy in place so that the profits can be made by incentivising the behaviours we want to encourage.

It's when companies/politicians pretend that they are acting for altruistic reasons that I start to get worried.
Click to expand...
It's just the way capitalism works, it feeds on greed. There must be a better system but I'm buggered if I know what it is, I'll leave that to smarter people than me. I gave up on politics over 25 years ago, 2 sides of the same coin.
 
RupieDupie said:
Unfortunately writing to members of parliament only works on the presumption that they represent our interests above those of their Key Stakeholders.

In response to your question though, "how bad can corporate filth get?" apparently in nuclear fission and cancer the division of nuclei and cells respectively reaches a limit based on mass etc + organism size etc. In both cases the process ends after much pain and suffering.

In compound interest, the amount of money owed follows the same trajectory initially, yet this phenomena can continually exponentiate well beyond any reasonable representation of the loan, as work for income, and can continue even into future generations, causing mass suffering without limit.

Thus the potential for corporate filth is limitless.
Click to expand...

I think that what happened in the US is being (very) closely watched by people in all countries. You only need to see how Cory Bernardi opted to jump ship, not long after his visit to the US. Added to that, the exodus of Australian voters from the major parties heading toward numerous minor parties has been a big wake up call to the powers that be.

Had the circus we're now seeing in the US not been unleashed on the world, it may very well have been same ol', same ol' (in regards to major parties grovelling to big donors and screwing everyone else)....but I seriously think those days are slowly becoming a thing of the past. All the mega-dollar political donations don't count for five eighths of f*ck of all if you get voted out of office - just ask Hillary Clinton. And on top of that, Bill Shorten has made it clear he wants overseas donations to be a thing of the past, where never before (on either side of politics) has that suggestion ever been uttered.
 
kwikfix said:
Murray-Darling debate caught my eye a year or so ago and came to the conclusion those who owned the water rights is sitting on a "gold mine"

It takes: » 5 litres of water to produce a single almond » 120 litres of water to produce a glass of wine » 200 litres of water to produce a glass of milk » 15,000 litres of water produce one kilo of beef!

I have invested my hard earnt in one company that has water rights currently valued at $152.7 million.
Click to expand...

Didn't TimberCorp own gig upon gig of water rights when they went bust? I think most of it returned to government control.

I owned a post office for a few years up near the Murray River until about 10 years ago, starting at the height of the drought at the turn of the century. I would drive to the border towns, Vic / NSW. The Vic towns would be bone dry while on the other side of the river the NSW clubs would be beautiful and lush with their sprinklers running almost 24/7.

Qld and NSW raping the water while Victoria were a lot more responsible and picked up the scraps. SA basically got nothing, that's why you'd see the mouth of the Murray silted/sanded up.

People were walking away from the land and others were coming in, buying the land and selling off the water rights then sub-dividing the land dry for rural house blocks. Those water rights lost forever from the region.
 
As for the OP.

Once I year we sit down as a group at work for a presentation on how to act morally and responsibly as employees and as good corporate citizens.

A couple of years ago was particularly galling sitting through it and nodding along when we all knew that the company had been fined $25m for paying bribes to government officials leading up to the Bejing Olympics, had been involved in burying a village killing a score of people and being named as a corporation that had accounts in the Cayman Islands with a hint at tax evasion (they may or may not have been involved in tax evasion) but it's not a good association to have, anyone with half a brain knows what having accounts in the Caymans usually means.
 
Rear Admiral said:
I think that what happened in the US is being (very) closely watched by people in all countries. You only need to see how Cory Bernardi opted to jump ship, not long after his visit to the US. Added to that, the exodus of Australian voters from the major parties heading toward numerous minor parties has been a big wake up call to the powers that be.

Had the circus we're now seeing in the US not been unleashed on the world, it may very well have been same ol', same ol' (in regards to major parties grovelling to big donors and screwing everyone else)....but I seriously think those days are slowly becoming a thing of the past. All the mega-dollar political donations don't count for five eighths of f*ck of all if you get voted out of office - just ask Hillary Clinton. And on top of that, Bill Shorten has made it clear he wants overseas donations to be a thing of the past, where never before (on either side of politics) has that suggestion ever been uttered.
Click to expand...

You are an optimist my friend, and that's not a bad thing, and you express some excellent sentiments and I hope you are correct.

IMO all that will happen is a reshuffling of allegiances, a few secret handshakes, and the dog-and-pony show will continue as is. The government is owned, just like everything else, if truth were told, the Australian government would be called The <insert sponsors here> Australian government just like the 2017 AFL premiership season is the Toyota 2017 AFL premiership season.

"So Gary I heard you got in a bit of strife in that third quarter, how did you manage to pull through"

"Yeah nah, I thought to myself, if I could just get up enough revs like my Toyota Landcruiser cresting a ridge I could bring the boys home"

"And you did! You must feel happy with your efforts?"

"Yeah nah, oh what a feeling!"

With politicians,

"Malcolm! Malcolm! Terrorists are everywhere! I saw a person wearing a hijab marrying a gay person! What will we do?"

"Calm is needed.

My friend and CEO at <insert sponsor here> would often be faced by marijuana smoking youths, who bludged on the dole, and do you know what he did?"

"Oh please tell us fearless leader! A dole bludging Asian investor just bought all the property in Sydney's inner west"

"Automation! He cut all the jobs in his workforce, I recommend us doing the same!"

"But, even our readers are not that gullible, how will they survive?"

"Well I have just released a series of innovative grants for start-ups that the CEO <insert sponsor name> has benefitted from, and if all his former employees go for these grants they will have better jobs and be able to afford the modest $1,000,000 cost of a dilapidated shack in Sydney for housing, in fact my other friend <insert sponsor here> has one on offer today"

"Well we would be the most foolish Australians on the planet if we did not make a bid"

"That you would, that you would"
 
Last edited:

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Just thank the Gods that our polly's are a bunch of bumbling, incompetent fools.....And that we are for the most part, a freakin desert stuck out in the middle of nowhere.....We're far from the levels of mass U.S corporate corruption.....Lets hope it stays that way. At least until the Yanks & the Ruskies blow us all to kingdom come anyways.
 
Rear Admiral said:
I think that what happened in the US is being (very) closely watched by people in all countries. You only need to see how Cory Bernardi opted to jump ship, not long after his visit to the US. Added to that, the exodus of Australian voters from the major parties heading toward numerous minor parties has been a big wake up call to the powers that be.
Click to expand...
The major parties' share of primary vote has been falling at each federal election since at least 75, it's an ongoing trend.
 
RupieDupie said:
You are an optimist my friend, and that's not a bad thing, and you express some excellent sentiments and I hope you are correct.

IMO all that will happen is a reshuffling of allegiances, a few secret handshakes, and the dog-and-pony show will continue as is. The government is owned, just like everything else, if truth were told, the Australian government would be called The <insert sponsors here> Australian government just like the 2017 AFL premiership season is the Toyota 2017 AFL premiership season.

"So Gary I heard you got in a bit of strife in that third quarter, how did you manage to pull through"

"Yeah nah, I thought to myself, if I could just get up enough revs like my Toyota Landcruiser cresting a ridge I could bring the boys home"

"And you did! You must feel happy with your efforts?"

"Yeah nah, oh what a feeling!"

With politicians,

"Malcolm! Malcolm! Terrorists are everywhere! I saw a person wearing a hijab marrying a gay person! What will we do?"

"Calm is needed.

My friend and CEO at <insert sponsor here> would often be faced by marijuana smoking youths, who bludged on the dole, and do you know what he did?"

"Oh please tell us fearless leader! A dole bludging Asian investor just bought all the property in Sydney's inner west"

"Automation! He cut all the jobs in his workforce, I recommend us doing the same!"

"But, even our readers are not that gullible, how will they survive?"

"Well I have just released a series of innovative grants for start-ups that the CEO <insert sponsor name> has benefitted from, and if all his former employees go for these grants they will have better jobs and be able to afford the modest $1,000,000 cost of a dilapidated shack in Sydney for housing, in fact my other friend <insert sponsor here> has one on offer today"

"Well we would be the most foolish Australians on the planet if we did not make a bid"

"That you would, that you would"
Click to expand...

Very good comments, but I'm actually not an optimist. Or at least I don't think so. I've just noticed quite a few things discussed in the news/media, and particularly independetnt media (not owned by Murdoch and his henchmen). You've made some very good points, but what you've failed to take into account is what's been mentioned here:

Mofra said:
The major parties' share of primary vote has been falling at each federal election since at least 75, it's an ongoing trend.
Click to expand...

And like I mentioned previously:

Rear Admiral said:
All the mega-dollar political donations don't count for five eighths of f*ck of all if you get voted out of office - just ask Hillary Clinton. And on top of that, Bill Shorten has made it clear he wants overseas donations to be a thing of the past, where never before (on either side of politics) has that suggestion ever been uttered.
Click to expand...

I have seen interviews given by Bill Shorten that he wants to put an end to foreign donations. Now that's anything but a magic silver bullet solution to all our political and environmental problems, but that is a very big line in the sand, in regards to previous views on political donations. Added to that, the number of people struggling to find stable employment and to afford their rent/mortgages, not to mention the ever-increasing number of homeless - if all this sorta carry-on just keeps going the way it's going, there are eventually going to be serious ramifications. If there's a few dozen/hundreds of homeless people (typically unemployed/UNDER-employed) around where you live, then it may not be such a serious issue. But when those numbers start growing into the high hundreds, then thousands....then you're going to see problems. Big problems. Many of the people reading this post may not think so, but I've stumbled across numerous interviews by political and economic analysts, and among all the various issues being discussed, there's been one common theme - the wealthy in their mansions and palaces are more than a bit worried that "the pitchforks are coming". These aren't necessarily my thoughts, but the comments from many well educated analysts (mentioned above) that have spent an enormous amount of time and effort investigating and studying these issues. Added to that, there's organisations such as GetUp! that are proving to be an almighty thorn in the side of countless Neo-Corporate Fascists. e.g.:

Take a look here

Still not convinced? Just do a bit of an Internet search on the likes of Cory Bernardi (and others) and what they think of organisations like GetUp! They h@te them with a passion. Why? Because the they mobilise big numbers, and they petition. While most Aussies are too lazy/apathetic to write/petition MP's, this is changing because of organisations such as GetUp! (and others). Their supporter base (and subsequent influence) is growing, and this is having serious effects. As far as I know, they have no allegiance to any political party, and if any business or MP's are involved in grubby dealings, they get their dirty laundry hung out in public, for all to see.

And in regards to the Murray Darling issue....just to extrapolate this whole issue further out, absolutely everyone - male, female, LGBT,
animal, vegetable, or mineral (and of any s*xual or political persuasion) needs water to drink, cook, and wash in clean, fresh water. No exception. Even people locked up in prison have access to water - cheaply, and lots of it. Not to mention all the businesses (big and small) that all need water. And these small businesses do vote. So if the numpties upriver start playing funny buggers with this whole water equation too much, then rest assured....those pitchforks will be coming out a lot sooner than we might think. Immediately? No. Eventually? More and more likely.
 
HairyO said:
Feds have said they are going to investigate, but the only thing which matters is what penalties will be handed up if breaches of the water agreements have happened.

Given its NSW I suspect it will be very minor, as Turnbull looks after his mates.
Click to expand...
Bingo.
There's a reason the two major parties are so opposed to a Federal ICAC. Too many skeletons, too many closets.
 
Procrastinator35 said:
Just thank the Gods that our polly's are a bunch of bumbling, incompetent fools.....And that we are for the most part, a freakin desert stuck out in the middle of nowhere.....We're far from the levels of mass U.S corporate corruption.....Lets hope it stays that way. At least until the Yanks & the Ruskies blow us all to kingdom come anyways.
Click to expand...

One thing I'm absolutely bl00dy thrilled about is Pine Gap. :)

It's probably over the heads (and before the time) of many of the readers here, but it's worth a gander.

While we've got that sitting here on our soil, the Yanks aren't hanging us out to dry. Not by a long shot. At least not yet.
 
Mofra said:
Bingo.
There's a reason the two major parties are so opposed to a Federal ICAC. Too many skeletons, too many closets.
Click to expand...

All the more reason to bring it on....yesterday.

I've no doubt that there have been all sorts of grubby dealing on all sides of politics, but I'm more than just convinced that the Libs/Coalition have far, far more to hide. In regards to grubby deals with corporations, the Libs/Coalition are in it up to their back teeth. All the other political parties combined....not in their wildest dreams could they ever be mixed up in as much corporate filth, as these large corporations are Right-Wing voters and supporters to the very bone.

A Federal ICAC? Bring it on.
 
RupieDupie said:
You are an optimist my friend, and that's not a bad thing, and you express some excellent sentiments and I hope you are correct.

IMO all that will happen is a reshuffling of allegiances, a few secret handshakes, and the dog-and-pony show will continue as is. The government is owned, just like everything else, if truth were told, the Australian government would be called The <insert sponsors here> Australian government just like the 2017 AFL premiership season is the Toyota 2017 AFL premiership season.

"So Gary I heard you got in a bit of strife in that third quarter, how did you manage to pull through"

"Yeah nah, I thought to myself, if I could just get up enough revs like my Toyota Landcruiser cresting a ridge I could bring the boys home"

"And you did! You must feel happy with your efforts?"

"Yeah nah, oh what a feeling!"

With politicians,

"Malcolm! Malcolm! Terrorists are everywhere! I saw a person wearing a hijab marrying a gay person! What will we do?"

"Calm is needed.

My friend and CEO at <insert sponsor here> would often be faced by marijuana smoking youths, who bludged on the dole, and do you know what he did?"

"Oh please tell us fearless leader! A dole bludging Asian investor just bought all the property in Sydney's inner west"

"Automation! He cut all the jobs in his workforce, I recommend us doing the same!"

"But, even our readers are not that gullible, how will they survive?"

"Well I have just released a series of innovative grants for start-ups that the CEO <insert sponsor name> has benefitted from, and if all his former employees go for these grants they will have better jobs and be able to afford the modest $1,000,000 cost of a dilapidated shack in Sydney for housing, in fact my other friend <insert sponsor here> has one on offer today"

"Well we would be the most foolish Australians on the planet if we did not make a bid"

"That you would, that you would"
Click to expand...

The other thing I forgot to mention is that the Libs/Coaltion Treasurer has slapped a tax on the big banks. In previous decades, if anyone suggested the Libs/Coalition would've come up with that sort of policy, people would laugh at you and ask if you were on drugs or hit your head (or both). But not now.

We do indeed have a rotten system, but there are signs that things are changing, and for some very simple reasons -

  • The gap between the "have's" and the "have not's" is growing by the day, where there are a f*ck of a lot more "have not's" than there are people with loaded pockets.
  • The "have not's" (growing in number) are getting more and more p*ssed off, and the MP's sitting in office don't want to get voted out.
 
Rear Admiral said:
Very good comments, but I'm actually not an optimist. Or at least I don't think so. I've just noticed quite a few things discussed in the news/media, and particularly independetnt media (not owned by Murdoch and his henchmen). You've made some very good points, but what you've failed to take into account is what's been mentioned here:



And like I mentioned previously:



I have seen interviews given by Bill Shorten that he wants to put an end to foreign donations. Now that's anything but a magic silver bullet solution to all our political and environmental problems, but that is a very big line in the sand, in regards to previous views on political donations. Added to that, the number of people struggling to find stable employment and to afford their rent/mortgages, not to mention the ever-increasing number of homeless - if all this sorta carry-on just keeps going the way it's going, there are eventually going to be serious ramifications. If there's a few dozen/hundreds of homeless people (typically unemployed/UNDER-employed) around where you live, then it may not be such a serious issue. But when those numbers start growing into the high hundreds, then thousands....then you're going to see problems. Big problems. Many of the people reading this post may not think so, but I've stumbled across numerous interviews by political and economic analysts, and among all the various issues being discussed, there's been one common theme - the wealthy in their mansions and palaces are more than a bit worried that "the pitchforks are coming". These aren't necessarily my thoughts, but the comments from many well educated analysts (mentioned above) that have spent an enormous amount of time and effort investigating and studying these issues. Added to that, there's organisations such as GetUp! that are proving to be an almighty thorn in the side of countless Neo-Corporate Fascists. e.g.:

Take a look here

Still not convinced? Just do a bit of an Internet search on the likes of Cory Bernardi (and others) and what they think of organisations like GetUp! They h@te them with a passion. Why? Because the they mobilise big numbers, and they petition. While most Aussies are too lazy/apathetic to write/petition MP's, this is changing because of organisations such as GetUp! (and others). Their supporter base (and subsequent influence) is growing, and this is having serious effects. As far as I know, they have no allegiance to any political party, and if any business or MP's are involved in grubby dealings, they get their dirty laundry hung out in public, for all to see.

And in regards to the Murray Darling issue....just to extrapolate this whole issue further out, absolutely everyone - male, female, LGBT,
animal, vegetable, or mineral (and of any s*xual or political persuasion) needs water to drink, cook, and wash in clean, fresh water. No exception. Even people locked up in prison have access to water - cheaply, and lots of it. Not to mention all the businesses (big and small) that all need water. And these small businesses do vote. So if the numpties upriver start playing funny buggers with this whole water equation too much, then rest assured....those pitchforks will be coming out a lot sooner than we might think. Immediately? No. Eventually? More and more likely.
Click to expand...

Yep, but in my experience, especially where there is money involved, the government will set up an "independent enquiry", and after a few years release a nice glossy brochure, and in that year's budget some years down the track the government will then identify a couple of million dollars (especially if they can harvest this from welfare, education or health) that they will invest into the Murray-Darling Action Plan, and this will employ a group of people who will go around the Murray Darling Basin liaising with investors and local farmers, and from this liaising there will be a report, and in my understanding after this last step the problem has been solved, but I really hope I am wrong and you are correct.

I once believed that there was some kind of check or balance for government/big business, but after a few cycles I know this is not the case, if the s**t ever did hit the fan, the circus will just up its pegs and move to another town, the government will change and the new guys will blame the old guys, or the government will bail everyone responsible out yet make the public responsible, or the public will inherit the consequences of the government's actions even without ever condoning them.
 
Rear Admiral said:
The other thing I forgot to mention is that the Libs/Coaltion Treasurer has slapped a tax on the big banks. In previous decades, if anyone suggested the Libs/Coalition would've come up with that sort of policy, people would laugh at you and ask if you were on drugs or hit your head (or both). But not now.

We do indeed have a rotten system, but there are signs that things are changing, and for some very simple reasons -

  • The gap between the "have's" and the "have not's" is growing by the day, where there are a f*ck of a lot more "have not's" than there are people with loaded pockets.
  • The "have not's" (growing in number) are getting more and more p*ssed off, and the MP's sitting in office don't want to get voted out.
Click to expand...

Yep, but the banks pass that tax onto their customers, just like when industry was hit by the Carbon Tax and everyone had to pay a larger utilities bill, in the bull-shitting of the government, they had people believe that poor people will take their hard won cash down the street to the local solar panel supply shop, fork out 20-odd-thousand-dollars and put these on top of the unit they are renting. Same with this tax, it is just another way to reap money from the public while pretending to do something useful.
 
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