Opinion Could Chris Scott have won the "Thompson" flags?

[Strangled Cat]

Ever heard of the chaos theory? You can't just change one variable and expect that all the others would remain the same. Hence you just can't make the comparison other than to indulge in an exercise in futility. I may be no fun at all, but hypotheticals like this serve no purpose other than to see how detached from reality some people are.

 

[catman 71]

Watched and suffered through it along with everyone else. You think Corey was still up to it. Great. I don't.

Agree totally that Walker's crappiness is very much in hindsight. We all wanted Hawkins rested after the Brisbane game. But I'm afraid I thought then and still do that they should have planned far better for Corey and as it turned out Kelly. Because they ran out of legs enormously during the finals. Which begs the question why the hell did each play so many games when they didn't need to?

The rotation of players, especially the senior players, is another blunder. Two years in a row the club have preached to us that they'd be playing their best footy in the finals. Two years in a row it's turned out to be bullshit.

Ignoring the goals that Bartel leaked all season and continuing to play him in defence was asking for trouble, and it eventually cost us. Keeping Varcoe in the team because apparently he'll break down in tears if the delicate soul is dropped cost us too.

But the worst was the ruck. Vardy and Blicavs put forward the most insipid ruck display I have ever seen in Geelong colours. Ever. Not playing a fully fit ruckman because he doesn't tackle enough or whatever doesn't excuse the abject slaughter that followed.

Gee, Blicavs and Vardy must have put in a bad effort, if you say that they put in the worst ruck effort ever. I mean, we were a club who once had Mark Blake.

 

[speedybundy]

Remembering an article I read in late 2006 where Matthew Scarlett said that he'd walk out on the club if Thompson was sacked, my answer would be no he wouldn't have won those flags.

Hypothetically though with the exception of Scott 2011 it takes at least a year or two for players to adapt to a coaches game plan, especially a young-mid age group of players like 2007. I'd say we would've won 2009, 2010 and 2011, but not made the grand final in 2007 or 2008.

 

[BotsMaster]

Chris Scott will win the 'Scott' flags of 2014 and 2015.

 

[barmy44]

if thompson had never been born, we would have won every flag since 1964.

coincidence he was born a few months after our '63 flag, leading to a premiership drought of 44 years? no way!

total scumbag, who never did anything right and ruined our club. our success was all tenace, gardiner, hinkley, and freddie garrity. apparently.

what a wack thread — who cares?

thompson gave us plenty.

 

[BIGANT]

oh ffs....bomba blunder >> stokes n hodgey 08 gf good move *shall we start !?

 

[vinum coupe]

Open the other eye

Pretty weak response to be honest

 

[David the Cat]

Why did I groan when i saw the title of this thread?

 

[Cursed Cat]

One thing I can't imagine is Chris Scott enforcing a suspension on Steve Johnson in 2007.
I realise it was the playing group led by Tom Harley that instigated Johnson's punishment for his transgressions, but Thompson empowered that leadership group to really take charge of things, and ultimately it was largely his philosophies that they were upholding.

CS has tended to turn a blind eye to Johnson's undisciplined acts in his time at Geelong.
Johnson's club-imposed suspension was a pivotal moment in the '07 season, and when he returned he was electrifying.

But that's just one aspect; when CS did have charge of players like Mooney, Milburn, Scarlett and Ling, he helped us win a flag.

 

[Vdubs]

That last sentence just invites so much discussion!

Very facetious, was he not?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Absolutely not.

 

[Rainfall]

4/4 instead of 3/4.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Turbocat]

One thing I can't imagine is Chris Scott enforcing a suspension on Steve Johnson in 2007.
I realise it was the playing group led by Tom Harley that instigated Johnson's punishment for his transgressions, but Thompson empowered that leadership group to really take charge of things, and ultimately it was largely his philosophies that they were upholding.

CCat has tended to turn a blind eye to Johnson's undisciplined acts in his time at Geelong.
Johnson's club-imposed suspension was a pivotal moment in the '07 season, and when he returned he was electrifying.

But that's just one aspect; when CS did have charge of players like Mooney, Milburn, Scarlett and Ling, he helped us win a flag.

CS , everything has its time. Johnson was part of the group that MT brought in. He was his. His time was just about done , he was sitting on the tipping point. SJ could never have become the player we all know.
......

So could Scott have won the Thompson Flag's? Could Thompson have won Scott's?

Man I look at StKilda , another Acolyte of Malthouse bites the dust. Look at the issues and it seems that too many under play how clever Scott has been at handling a mature group , one that must be slowly moved on without carpet bombing the club. My way or the Highway coaching , failure is not an option , your culture is a disease and I'm the cure is pre-modern coaching. To encourage , to mold , to groom is the modern way. You dont burn the house down cause you don't like the colour of the bathroom.I look over at the Saints board , posts summarizing the medias reports. It reminds me of Ayres at Geelong and an "almost successful" side being treated like loosers and causing disruption. Neeld now Watters , yep Malthouse knows how to train them.

Each club and lists have their challenges. Was it easier at Geelong or more difficult? Probably depends on the appointment. Chris Scott was inspired. It meant going past very good quality , as has been shown in Hinkley and Macca. But who to come into our group who better than someone from another era setting football club. Who better to develop respect than someone from the group that the club modeled themselves on. And Scott didn't want an instant dictatorship , he was willing smooth the ruffled hair rather than shave it off. Ego is a dangerous commodity in an aspiring coach , its also dangerous when a playing group has its ego threatened. It could have so easily have just turned to sand at the Cattery. It still may.

Ultimately he will be judged on the assembly of the Scott list. When the last of the core group go the 99,01,02 it will basically be his to hang his hat on. By 2016 the sides performance will be dictating whether we see threads like this or not

 

[The rabbi]

Despicable? No, despicable was what Vardy and Blicavs had waiting for us in the Qualifying Final. Then for good measure they decided to repeat it in the Prelim.

Horlin-Smith would have been at least as effective as Corey in September. He was shot.

Not to mention playing Chapman as a sub. How that cannot be called a blunder is beyond me.

I dunno. GHS looked pretty ordinary in the VFL GF.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

I dunno. GHS looked pretty ordinary in the VFL GF.

Man, really tired of this crappy statement.

Every player has ordinary games. Every team has ordinary games. I don't understand all these people coming out after watching probably a handful at best of VFL games through the course of the year and going on about him looking ordinary in the VFL GF. Way to take an isolated performance. 95% of the team was ordinary in the VFL GF, they must all suck...

He was pretty damn good in the VFL from the games I watched and I watched quite a few. Played VERY well against Sydney in the AFL, the reigning Premier, mind you. And just for the short memories, in 2012 he was also finished 5th in the Liston, won a VFL premiership and was BOG in said VFL GF....guess that counts for zip.

 

[JackFlash]

It might sound absurd, but i believe Geelong have underachieved with just 3 flags to their name in the past 10 years.
Here is the Geelong team from the final game of 2006 that was flogged by 9 goals by 11th placed Hawthorn.
Geelong finished 10th in 2006.
B: Harley, Scarlett, J.Hunt
HB: D.Johnson, Milburn, Egan
C: Enright, G.Ablett, Rooke
HF: Gamble, N.Ablett, S.Johnson
F: Bartel, Ottens, Chapman
FOLL: King, Corey, Ling
I/C: Kelly, Wojcinski, Mackie, Prismall
EM: Callan, Blake, Tenace

Stacked with eventual Premiership players and all Australians, yet did not feature in the 2006 finals series.

The review was no surprise as everyone and their dog knew Geelong had the best team going around and were making a mockery of their talent.

Sure Chris Scott would've won the Thompson flags, how on earth did this team only win 3 flags in this era is more the mystery.

 

[The rabbi]

Man, really tired of this crappy statement.

Every player has ordinary games. Every team has ordinary games. I don't understand all these people coming out after watching probably a handful at best of VFL games through the course of the year and going on about him looking ordinary in the VFL GF. Way to take an isolated performance. 95% of the team was ordinary in the VFL GF, they must all suck...

He was pretty damn good in the VFL from the games I watched and I watched quite a few. Played VERY well against Sydney in the AFL, the reigning Premier, mind you. And just for the short memories, in 2012 he was also finished 5th in the Liston, won a VFL premiership and was BOG in said VFL GF....guess that counts for zip.

No, it doesn't count for zip. And that's why I prefaced my comment with "I dunno".

He has some good qualities. He can find the ball even though he clearly lacks pace. He tends not to waste the footy and would rather go short or backwards to someone free rather then risk a turn over. But I am yet to be convinced that he will be good enough to become a quality AFL mid. Time will tell.

 

[manboob]

Why did I groan when i saw the title of this thread?

Goes well with his other threads...

 

[Partridge]

Man, really tired of this crappy statement.

Every player has ordinary games. Every team has ordinary games. I don't understand all these people coming out after watching probably a handful at best of VFL games through the course of the year and going on about him looking ordinary in the VFL GF. Way to take an isolated performance. 95% of the team was ordinary in the VFL GF, they must all suck...

He was pretty damn good in the VFL from the games I watched and I watched quite a few. Played VERY well against Sydney in the AFL, the reigning Premier, mind you. And just for the short memories, in 2012 he was also finished 5th in the Liston, won a VFL premiership and was BOG in said VFL GF....guess that counts for zip.

Great post. And the thing that is most annoying is that only some players get their poor games picked apart. Even now, nearly two months later, Kelly still has barely been criticised for his Prelim final effort which was way worse than Horlin-Smith's, and just about as bad as any Geelong midfielder this year. 12 possessions in a final, and unable to have any influence at all on Mitchell when he was opposed to him. Corey was better, but not by much. Why can young players get slammed but not respected veterans? There shouldn't be any favouritism but there always is.

We'll never know for sure. Horlin-Smith might have been worse; he also might have been better. I would always prefer to trust in youth when you can see the older player is fading. And anyone who says Corey wasn't I don't think was watching closely. It's been apparent for some time. He is and was a great servant of Geelong but he time was up.

 

[Partridge]

Gee, Blicavs and Vardy must have put in a bad effort, if you say that they put in the worst ruck effort ever. I mean, we were a club who once had Mark Blake.

They did. Very, very bad.

Mark Blake was a far better ruckman than either Vardy or Blicavs have shown so far in their careers. There's plenty of time for both, but right now Blake has them covered easily.

 

[winty]

They did. Very, very bad.

Mark Blake was a far better ruckman than either Vardy or Blicavs have shown so far in their careers. There's plenty of time for both, but right now Blake has them covered easily.

I agree. Blake was a very good tap ruckman. Unfortunately for him, that's all he was. Once the sub rule came in, he was a dead man walking in football terms, as he didn't have a second string to his bow, so he became obsolete.

 

[catman 71]

They did. Very, very bad.

Mark Blake was a far better ruckman than either Vardy or Blicavs have shown so far in their careers. There's plenty of time for both, but right now Blake has them covered easily.

I forgot about Blake's efforts up forward as compared to Vardy's.

Blake was good at winning hitouts, and absolutely nothing else. He may have been a star back in the 70's, where you only had to ruck, but Vardy and Blicavs are more versatile and can be played in other spots.

Besides, Blake had plenty of awful games (such as 2008 GF).

 

[Partridge]

and for all this talk of a very good tap ruckman, he could only average 20 per game

20 is better than 11.3 (Vardy), or 10.8 (Blicavs).

But as soon as the sub rule was enacted, that was it. Still he helped us win a flag so can't be too bitter about him.

 

[Partridge]

Blake was good at winning hitouts, and absolutely nothing else. He may have been a star back in the 70's, where you only had to ruck, but Vardy and Blicavs are more versatile and can be played in other spots.

Besides, Blake had plenty of awful games (such as 2008 GF).

I would word it as "potentially more versatile". Vardy definitely is, especially if he can learn how to be productive as a key forward. Blicavs it all depends where they see him developing, which is anyone's guess.

Blake absolutely had awful games. He copped it for them too. Unlike some.

 

[Partridge]

not when you factor in the centre clearances (1.5 for Vardy & 2 for Blicavs) plus the goal differential for both scoring & assists.

In fact, apart from Blake's 2008 season in which he got the chance to play a full season all the while uninjured, he never improved and was supposedly embarking into his prime at 25yrs of age.

Yeah but we all agree he was a ruckman from really a different era. Simply wasn't up to it in modern football apart from at the centre bounces and around the grounds.

Remember too, it was your quote that was only on the number of hitouts. You said how many Blake won, it's only fair then to compare the hitouts, and only the hitouts of others. Any other stat is irrelevant.