Craig Interview On 5AA

[KUNG FU]

We also got Jacky & Cook for Hudson & #43.

I seriously have not once thought "Gee, we need Hudson & Welsh" this year. Has only hastened the list renewal. Most likely wouldn't have seen Moran and a few others otherwise.

 

[SydCrow]

If the players have destination disease it is NC's fault. He is always saying that we need to win enough games to make the 8 and then we have a chance to play finals etc. This gives everyone the message that making the finals is an end in itself. Which it shouldn't be.

He should be saying we need to win enough games to win the premiership. Perhaps he has got the message now that he needs to change his message (3 years too late).

He also started his HC job saying he was coaching the team to play the sort of footy that wins finals. Well it's not working.

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

Great, the Crows have succeeded in distracting the masses once again with stupid buzz words, so the supporter blame then falls on these imaginary conditions rather than the Crows administration.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I never thought I would say this but I'm starting to think NC talks more sh*t and cliches than Ayres. Ahhh well, keep going the way we have and NC/Trigg and "how the hell does he keep his job" John Reid will find themselves out of a job.

 

[Gary17]

Honestly, i think the frustration here is at least partly due to inflated expectations.

I think the Tinman is spot on here. When you take a step back and look at things objectively I think our list on talent alone performed marginally better than you should have expected. Some consistent strong showings against lesser teams helped to inflate those expectations, but there were also plenty of reminders of where we really stood against the better sides.

As a coach I see that as Neil Craig's biggest flaw. He'll consistantly lead the squad that he has to produce marginally better than their "real" potential. But the approach is so clinical and emotionless that they dont have another notch to raise in the finals. Last weekend was a pretty heartless performance, i thought.

On the upside, I think he's done a pretty good job of improving the list.

Well put.

As I see it, the Crows are better than a lot of teams at giving themselves an opportunity to win the game. They have yet to develop the ability to
take that opportunity more often than not.

 

[jo172]

I never thought I would say this but I'm starting to think NC talks more sh*t and cliches than Ayres. Ahhh well, keep going the way we have and NC/Trigg and "how the hell does he keep his job" John Reid will find themselves out of a job.

Irony ...

 

[Cap]

I never thought I would say this but I'm starting to think NC talks more sh*t and cliches than Ayres. Ahhh well, keep going the way we have and NC/Trigg and "how the hell does he keep his job" John Reid will find themselves out of a job.

I always struggle with this one. I alwasy reckon Craigy is pretty honest and up front

what do people expect him to say?

 

[jo172]

I always struggle with this one. I alwasy reckon Craigy is pretty honest and up front

what do people expect him to say?

I think the main criticism seems to be "We need to work on that"

People are upset that he is merely identifying problems and not offering solutions.

This is interesting as the same people who are the critics are generally those after an easy fix, or liking change just because it's change, screw the ramifications (Like wanting to get rid of Reid ...).

This is consistant as it incorparates a belief that the answer to Craig's problems are quick and easy, as the answers to all life's problems are quick and easy.

Quite frankly the poster I'm referring to only wants an answer or solution, never mind if they're the correct or succesful answers or solutions.

 

[Cap]

I think the main criticism seems to be "We need to work on that"

People are upset that he is merely identifying problems and not offering solutions.

This is interesting as the same people who are the critics are generally those after an easy fix, or liking change just because it's change, screw the ramifications (Like wanting to get rid of Reid ...).

This is consistant as it incorparates a belief that the answer to Craig's problems are quick and easy, as the answers to all life's problems are quick and easy.

Quite frankly the poster I'm referring to only wants an answer or solution, never mind if they're the correct or succesful answers or solutions.

hmm o.k

well hopefuly he works on that

 

[jenny61_99]

I'd much rather Craig identify that "we need to work on that" than being satisfied with what we've done as long as it's not hollow promises. Clearly he HAS made changes in the way he conducts his game day, which is something we were all critical of last year. He made changes throughout games this year which he hasn't in the past. Tried different mix ups when things weren't working. Still, he knows he needs to do more, and I'm sure he'll be working on it.

 

[Cap]

I'd much rather Craig identify that "we need to work on that" than being satisfied with what we've done as long as it's not hollow promises. Clearly he HAS made changes in the way he conducts his game day, which is something we were all critical of last year. He made changes throughout games this year which he hasn't in the past. Tried different mix ups when things weren't working. Still, he knows he needs to do more, and I'm sure he'll be working on it.

i'm sure he will Jenny, I'm sure he will

 

[crowsup]

I never thought I would say this but I'm starting to think NC talks more sh*t and cliches than Ayres. Ahhh well, keep going the way we have and NC/Trigg and "how the hell does he keep his job" John Reid will find themselves out of a job.

It appears that all the faults and failures of the AFC are due to the incompetence of Trigg, Reid and Craig. At least according to you and a few others.
By the vitriol that you and others are directing toward NC and the rest of the AFC hierarchy, I should assume that you believe that our list is better than all other AFL clubs, except Geelong. And then only maybe. In which case, it was the couching that cost us the elimination game.
If you believe that our list is not as good as it should have been, then it must be because of what NC hasn't done in the last 4 years.
Am I correct?
If I'm interpreting your posts correctly, I take it that if we had a better coach, the likes of MM, LM, RE, Roos etc., we would have won a premiership in the last 4 years.
The problem I personally have with this simplistic belief is the fact that all these above mentioned exceptional coaches have had the same 4 years and have not achieved any more. So, how the **** do you arrive at the notion that NC has cost us a flag and or that these other coaches are that much better?
I know that you and the other NC detractors may not have said that he has cost us a flag, but that is exactly what you are insinuating.
You may think that I'm an NC apologist. That is quite far from the truth.
I like to think that I have looked at the whole picture and came to the conclusion that with all of NC's failures, I don't believe that anybody else would have done as well.
End of rant.

 

[Hondo]

net sum = 0

Hudson walked.
Meesen walked.

Moran, nothing trade.

Mattner for Symes = tinkering around the edges.

the only structural changes to our team was letting our best ruckman and goalkicking forward walk for jack all.

You're rarely going to get a trade where net sum > 0. Maybe = 0.5 if you are lucky. That's why they are called "trades".

The days of McLeod for Groom are long gone. 90% of the time it's like for like shuffling of players who want to go somewhere else.

I've yet to see a club that is active in trade week have a premiership to show for it. Freo = classic example of what not to do.

Altho - looking at where Meesen is now we are better off with Moran. Symes and Mattner are comparable in ability but Symes is more what we need and Mattner has done well at Sydney. Win-win there.

 

[*PAF]

... I like to think that I have looked at the whole picture and came to the conclusion that with all of NC's failures, I don't believe that anybody else would have done as well.
End of rant.

Well that is the point of debate.
How well has Craig done? It depends on which aspects one looks at. What exactly is better?

1. Getting the best out of a team? Depends on the point of view. Minimum output level? Yes. Maximum output level? No.
2. Improving the list? Not really. 0-50% scorecard?
3. Recognising flair and talent? IMO not really as he seems scared that talented players are unreliable, thus a talented player that is reigned in and playing at 80% but being reliable is better than one playing at 100% with some unreliability. However that is debateable
4. Getting you closer to a flag than when he first came on the scene? IMO no, but also debateable. If the other team is having a bad day you'll catch anyone out. If they are having a good day, you will struggle. 2005 was a good chance for a Craig type coach as there was no outstanding team.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I wouldnt say we got nothing out of Husdson leaving.

What we got was game time into Maric, who is the best young Ruckman in the league. Also allowed more game time into Griffin to see where he is at. Hudson leaving also allowed us to play Moran and Tippett. Although it is debatable whether we would of picked up Moran if Hudson left.

We were never going to win a flag this year, and most of us agreed at the beginning of the year 2008 was going to be a development year. Rucci pushed for our club to use the "rebuild" word. A word the AFC will never use as we play to win.

Thats all well and good but the bottom line is, you are losing an asset and not geting much return for that asset!

We didn't get the fair value in Hudson trade despite what Capitalist would like to spin. Thats the bottom line. Whether is helped our younger ruckmen is irrelevant in this discussion. Its like saying ah well I sold a house in Norwood for half the market price but its OK as its allowed me to move into my other house in Dulwich. The bottom line still is that you lost an asset and didn't get value in return.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think the main criticism seems to be "We need to work on that"

People are upset that he is merely identifying problems and not offering solutions.

This is interesting as the same people who are the critics are generally those after an easy fix, or liking change just because it's change, screw the ramifications (Like wanting to get rid of Reid ...).

This is consistant as it incorparates a belief that the answer to Craig's problems are quick and easy, as the answers to all life's problems are quick and easy.

Quite frankly the poster I'm referring to only wants an answer or solution, never mind if they're the correct or succesful answers or solutions.

Lets be honest here, Neil Craig will not and should not offer his solutions publicly. Thats the stuff that needs to stay behind closed doors.

If he says we need to work on out forward line entries, then why does he have to publicly say what his plans are on how to address that issue!

 

[birdmanptr]

I never thought I would say this but I'm starting to think NC talks more sh*t and cliches than Ayres. Ahhh well, keep going the way we have and NC/Trigg and "how the hell does he keep his job" John Reid will find themselves out of a job.

Agreed thats why i asked are we better of now or midway through 04.

Midway through 04 Goody Edwards and Macca still had a lot of good footy in front of them and i am prepared to say that some of our next crop aint goin to cut it

 

[birdmanptr]

The real sad part in all this is of all the questions that were asked of our club on Saturday we have to wait a long time for the answers

 

[*PAF]

Agreed thats why i asked are we better of now or midway through 04.

Midway through 04 Goody Edwards and Macca still had a lot of good footy in front of them and i am prepared to say that some of our next crop aint goin to cut it

Beginning of 2004 you had:

Under 50 games
Rutten
Reilly
Johncock
Bock
Hentschel
Stevens
Doughty

Under 100 games
Burton
Massie

 

[pjcrows]

You're all looking too far into it, as usual.

The simple fact is that we don't have a team that can honestly be expected to push deep into the finals.

We buggered up our chance a few years ago, and are now at the very beginning of our next tilt, which should come in 3-4 years time. If we fail to develop our midfield and forward line and push for the flag, my thoughts will be different.

But we simply aren't there at the moment.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Irony ...

Hmmm that's why you always read and comment. Like clockwork, I post, you follow.

 

[Stiffy_18]

You're all looking too far into it, as usual.

The simple fact is that we don't have a team that can honestly be expected to push deep into the finals.

We buggered up our chance a few years ago, and are now at the very beginning of our next tilt, which should come in 3-4 years time. If we fail to develop our midfield and forward line and push for the flag, my thoughts will be different.

But we simply aren't there at the moment.

Thats all well and good and I definetly agree that we don't have a team good enough to push deep into the finals and yes in hindsight we did bugger up our chances in 2005 and to lesser degree in 2006 BUT we cannot ignore one simple fact that the team we put on the park last saturday was good enough to beat the team Collingwood put on the park in the same game.

Thats the issue people are pissed off about. Its not that we didn't go deep into finals. Its simply a fact that we looked second rate against a team that we are good enough to beat and quite frankly should have beaten and beated reasonably well.

People are pissed off that yet again it was a very underwhelming performance in a finals that we are good enough to win. If we were smashed by Geelong or Hawthorn, there wouldn't be as much of an outcry. But the fact remains that we were beaten by a team that we should have accounted for reasonably well and to make it even worse, we pissed that opportunity into the wind at home.

Thats what people are pissed off about and IMHO have every right to be. Now I question their rationale in some of their claims but they do have the right to be really disappointed with that game against Collingwood. Other than that purple patch in the 2nd quarter, we never looked like winning and that was against a pretty underwhelming outfit.

 

[Elite Crow]

Well put Stiffy, throw in the fact we were 27 points up and we end up losing by 31. And the performance of our senior players was equally disappointing.

 

[pjcrows]

Thats all well and good and I definetly agree that we don't have a team good enough to push deep into the finals and yes in hindsight we did bugger up our chances in 2005 and to lesser degree in 2006 BUT we cannot ignore one simple fact that the team we put on the park last saturday was good enough to beat the team Collingwood put on the park in the same game.

Thats the issue people are pissed off about. Its not that we didn't go deep into finals. Its simply a fact that we looked second rate against a team that we are good enough to beat and quite frankly should have beaten and beated reasonably well.

People are pissed off that yet again it was a very underwhelming performance in a finals that we are good enough to win. If we were smashed by Geelong or Hawthorn, there wouldn't be as much of an outcry. But the fact remains that we were beaten by a team that we should have accounted for reasonably well and to make it even worse, we pissed that opportunity into the wind at home.

Thats what people are pissed off about and IMHO have every right to be. Now I question their rationale in some of their claims but they do have the right to be really disappointed with that game against Collingwood. Other than that purple patch in the 2nd quarter, we never looked like winning and that was against a pretty underwhelming outfit.

No worries, I'm annoyed at the effort too, but people need to differentiate between disappointed about a game and offloading half the team and the coaching staff and labelling the side a basket case.

 

[Stiffy_18]

No worries, I'm annoyed at the effort too, but people need to differentiate between disappointed about a game and offloading half the team and the coaching staff and labelling the side a basket case.

And you make a valid point. But we also need to consider that for two years in a row, we lost games that we were leading by some 5 odd goals at some stage of the game. Craig himself raised this as a pretty serious issue with us. We lost last 2 finals, the games that we shouldn't have lost. Win those 2 games and the issue thats currently staring us down is not an issue. Craig himself said in the interview that those are the 2 games we should have won and he still thinks we should have won it. We needed to hold a position of the ball for 30 seconds against Hawks last year and we couldn't do it. Craig himself raised this. We should have beaten the side Collingwood put on the park and we didn't look like it for most of the game.

It is an issue, and its becoming more srious. We do need to address it because it can haunt us for years to come. I think we have the right coach, and I think we have a good group of young player going forward. I do think there is still a LOT of work to do to get to the genuine contender status but we do need to seriously address this in prompt manner.