I actually thought Joey would be the one player I'd take for the Blues at the start of the year. Just a freak matchup and younger than Buddy/Kennedy. Much better than Ben Brown imo.
Cripps Bontempelli Merrett Kelly - the next big 4?
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Bard
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Brown has shown a greater desire at this stage IMO which has elevated him. Daniher has the greater talent by far, but given his kicking woes I’d lean to Brown for an immediate selection for a game this week (assuming both fit). Kind of a moot point though really... I’d happily take both any day of the week.
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Yeah, don’t mind Oliver either, should be in the conversation with the others. Could be the 2nd best by the end of the year.
Daniher was kicking with a dodgy groin this year unfortunately.
Last year they went 65.39 and 63.30 respectively.
Joey's 0-6 v Melbourne was an outlier game for him that everyone jumped on.
I go a fit Daniher over Brown every day of the week.
i think to close this discussion, we'd have to agree that these 2013 kids won't be the players of their generation
the draft will go down as one of the best, but there are some from the surrounding drafts in the convo too.
Admittedly, the Hird-Voss-Buckley convo undersells a number of gun players from their era.
Wanganeen, Carey, Ricciuto, Harvey, Kouta.
Bard
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Fair call, but you're also slightly biased I'm sure
Throw Hogan into this too, I'm not sure we'll be able to know who was the best player until their careers are coming to an end.
im always more than happy to say there are players i'd prefer over our own. Daniher looks a special talent though.Fair call, but you're also slightly biased I'm sure
Throw Hogan into this too, I'm not sure we'll be able to know who was the best player until their careers are coming to an end.
i take him over Brown and pretty much any forward in the comp bar Buddy or JJK.
We don't have enough information to make that call. After Fyfe/Martin/Danger, there's no other mids clearly ahead of this quartet.
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I know it's against the grain of the AFL media think tank but after watching Cripps today I'd say he's a fair way behind Kelly and probably the Bont aswell.
Gets alot of the ball but used it fairly poorly or did a few short handpasses to a teammate already under pressure. His score involvements are really low for someone who get's so much of the ball. Averaging 4.8 score involvements for 30+ touches a game. Made me think of Rockliff a few years back.
He's obviously a lone hand in there for Carlton so it's harsh to say he's not working hard enough defensively but he let Fyfe and Neale run off him all day. Fyfe had 30 disposals at 90% DE. For an inside mid that DE% is ridiculous and shows how much time/space Cripps gave to Fyfe. His lack of speed doesn't help either.
Gets alot of the ball but used it fairly poorly or did a few short handpasses to a teammate already under pressure. His score involvements are really low for someone who get's so much of the ball. Averaging 4.8 score involvements for 30+ touches a game. Made me think of Rockliff a few years back.
He's obviously a lone hand in there for Carlton so it's harsh to say he's not working hard enough defensively but he let Fyfe and Neale run off him all day. Fyfe had 30 disposals at 90% DE. For an inside mid that DE% is ridiculous and shows how much time/space Cripps gave to Fyfe. His lack of speed doesn't help either.
Topkent
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This is the same crap oliver gets accused of.
Cripps has one job, get the footy and get it to someone else.
Score involvement? It's not his fault if he wins the ball against 2 blokes flicks it out to a Carlton player who turns it over.
As with Oliver Cripps is elite at clearing the congestion. Once he gets some teammates catch his level his clearances will result in goals.
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Oliver is averaging almost 7 score involvements per game for basically the same amount of touches. So that's a fair bit better than Cripps.
Fyfe averages 8 score involvements from similar disposals.
Tom Mitchell who everyone says isn't very damaging averages 6 Si's a game.
Did you watch Cripps today? His disposal was ordinary and he sold out a few of his teammates with hospital handballs. What did you think of his defensive efforts?
ossie_21
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Bont had 10 score involvements against Port from 23 possessions. But reading the game day thread he was invisible 
He doesn’t need huge numbers, it’s just what happens from the numbers that really matters. No pleasing some people though who think the superstars must get 30-40 touches a week to be considered in the elite.
FWIW this thread will probably never be locked, but all are tracking very well for where they are in their young careers. Oliver probably overtaking Merrett though who seems to have plateaued a bit.
He doesn’t need huge numbers, it’s just what happens from the numbers that really matters. No pleasing some people though who think the superstars must get 30-40 touches a week to be considered in the elite.
FWIW this thread will probably never be locked, but all are tracking very well for where they are in their young careers. Oliver probably overtaking Merrett though who seems to have plateaued a bit.
Huh? That’s just 2 more p/game than Cripps in a side that has scored 68% more. Rather than countering Topkent’s point, this actually shows his point actually has a lot of merit.
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Could it be that Melbourne score more because they have a more effective midfield? If Cripps (Your main ball winner) was more effective with his touches, it would probably lead to more scores. Not sure you can let Cripps' off because your team doesn't score much.
Freo are an equally poor scoring side like Freo - Fyfe averages 8 score involvements, Neale 6.3 Si's. So it's not just because Carlton struggle to score.
What about Cripps' defensive efforts yesterday?
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ManOfClay
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Cripps could be a lot more efficient, that can’t be denied.
Nobody has ever denied that Cripps’ isn’t an inside beast. That’s obvious. And his inside work is obviously better than Bonts and Kelly’s. But beside his ability to take a contested mark up forward like Bont, what other weapons to his game does he have? He’s literally a deer in headlights when he realises he can’t dish off a handball when he has it inside 50. No opposite foot. And no composure in front of goal. And no real penetration in his kicking. And has only kicked 3 goals for the season.
Bont is a better forward. Cripps is a better mid.
This was established like 24 pages ago.
This was established like 24 pages ago.
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What are you arguing exactly? I'm saying Cripps doesn't work very hard defensively and while he can win the hard ball what he does once he has the ball is fairly average. He's not helping his team score as much as the better mids in the comp do. (Fyfe, Bont, Oliver, Mitchell, etc.)
Are you disputing that?
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Cripps is better at winning a contested ball. I'd say Bont/Kelly are better overall mids.
Cripps actually contributes a greater percentage of his team’s scoring than Oliver. So I’d say your analysis is flawed.
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Carlton score a lot less.
Carlton score four times, cripps contributes once, that’s 25 per cent.
Your analysis is flawed, but of course you can’t stand any criticism of cripps
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Yeah it can
Yes. Carlton score a lot less, demonstrating that a multivariable analysis will give you a clearer picture than the raw statistic in isolation. In this instance with the Oliver example, it means he has 42% more score involvements than Cripps, playing in a side that has registered a 68% larger scoreline.
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If I said the sky is up you’d disagree but that’s more because you are a keyboard masher.
Do you seriously believe cripps can not be more efficient?
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