Crows plan Walker talks!

[Jars458]

see that's where you're wrong. people get paid on potential all the time.

For sure. 35 million pounds for Any Carroll for example.

No doubt the AFC would like to sign him now but we will have to wait. IMHO I don't think his year this year will have much bearing on his cotnract price unless he were to play really really well.

A lot also depends on what other players GWS go after.

No doubt its good advice to ignore the Tiser and Carro and Hutchy as the season progresses.

 

[Vader]

None of this is an issue at the Crows. The only possible reason I could see Tex leaving is that Craig continues with his harsh irrational treatment of him, and in that case I would be on Tex's side if he decided to leave.

Except that Tex has never been treated harshly or irrationally, but that's an argument for another thread.

If he leaves, it will be for the money - and that means that GWS will have virtually doubled his salary. Given that the AFC's reason for not doing the (Andrew) Walker trade last year was supposedly salary cap related, you'd have to assume that they were saving a war chest for the retention of young Tex only 12 months later.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Taylor would be nuts to sign now, even if he wants to stay, which Im sure he does. If he truly believes in his ability which Im he obviously does , he will go out and have a breakthrough year and double what is on offer now. He could not be in a stronger position. Sign now and he would be a fool!

 

[WALL-e]

If anyone here was TW's manager, would you sign him up now?

He could get injured in round 2 and miss the season and his value won't drop. Only way is up and he's gonna be worth a mighty penny at the end of the year if his training form is anything to go by.

I'd be using the GWS leverage as well. Choco and Sheedy will only be throwing fuel on the fire of his worth.

From an afc POV, we have a very, very interesting time coming up trying to balance our contracts to keep everyone happy.

 

[ManInTheArena]

We're probably only at 92.5% of our salary cap for a reason..

 

[Allefgib]

If anyone here was TW's manager, would you sign him up now?

He could get injured in round 2 and miss the season and his value won't drop. Only way is up and he's gonna be worth a mighty penny at the end of the year if his training form is anything to go by.

I'd be using the GWS leverage as well. Choco and Sheedy will only be throwing fuel on the fire of his worth.

From an afc POV, we have a very, very interesting time coming up trying to balance our contracts to keep everyone happy.

If i was tex's manager, and this is speaking as someone incredibly ignorant of player contracts in the AFL, I'd be open to the crows putting something on the table.

Further - I'd be pushing them to put up $$ that meets Tex potential and if I can get that before having to prove potential I'd be encouraing him to sign IF he wants to stay with Adelaide.

If he actually wants to see what GWS offers and then base his expecatations from AFC on that - well you wait but I'd be cautious of that if we had a great offer already as GWS may chase someone else anyway.

If AFC won't put up quite enough $$ to make it happen early i'd be encouraging them to put up more $$ on a performance based style contract - kicks 50 goals get the bigger compenstation etc.

 

[WALL-e]

If i was tex's manager, and this is speaking as someone incredibly ignorant of player contracts in the AFL, I'd be open to the crows putting something on the table.

Further - I'd be pushing them to put up $$ that meets Tex potential and if I can get that before having to prove potential I'd be encouraing him to sign IF he wants to stay with Adelaide.

If he actually wants to see what GWS offers and then base his expecatations from AFC on that - well you wait but I'd be cautious of that if we had a great offer already as GWS may chase someone else anyway.

If AFC won't put up quite enough $$ to make it happen early i'd be encouraging them to put up more $$ on a performance based style contract - kicks 50 goals get the bigger compenstation etc.

You can say yeah chuck an offer on the table, but what ever that offer is now, it isn't as big as it could be and it's still going to be there at years end.

I'd love to see him sign now, so we can do away with all the speculation and rest easy, but that isn't how the business works.

It's likely he'll be on a performance based contract regardless of signing now or later, but it just makes a lot more sense for him, to sign later.

It's unfortunate, because we'll all now have to deal with reading the Ruch's articles, listening to Choco run his mouth and be nervous wrecks like we were with Kurtly.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

If i was tex's manager, and this is speaking as someone incredibly ignorant of player contracts in the AFL, I'd be open to the crows putting something on the table.

Further - I'd be pushing them to put up $$ that meets Tex potential and if I can get that before having to prove potential I'd be encouraing him to sign IF he wants to stay with Adelaide.

If he actually wants to see what GWS offers and then base his expecatations from AFC on that - well you wait but I'd be cautious of that if we had a great offer already as GWS may chase someone else anyway.

If AFC won't put up quite enough $$ to make it happen early i'd be encouraging them to put up more $$ on a performance based style contract - kicks 50 goals get the bigger compenstation etc.

I would be open to it aswell, but wouldnt sign a thing. He has the potential to have a break out year like Buddy had in 2007. If he is worth x amount now based purely on potential, what would he be worth after an 80 goal season?

 

[Allefgib]

and what is the likliehood of 80 goal season given tehy've put an offer on the table that we would expect if he had a 65 goal season....?

The assumption is the club can and would do that now... that's what I'd be pushing as Tex's manager to find out.

Having said all that... that is totally ignoring the people element and do we actually want to play hard ball now or actually base it on his real contributions.

As crow-mo pointed out.. people are paid on potential all the time. And I don't think that's too inappropriate, especially in sport. up to the coaches to then get the best out of him.

 

[Huntercrow]

Whatever offer we were to make now would be easily eclipsed by GWS.
Don't give them a benchmark to aim for.
Make it known to him that he is a required player and will be rewarded with a generous contract when he is ready.

I think there are several reasons to be optimistic.

He would be aware of the loyalty of his fellow teammates to the Crows....
Tippet (He made his choice after a generous offer from GC)
Dangerfield (he was pretty vocal in his opposition to Bock's move)
Neither of the above are "local boys" but this doesn't seem to matter.
Jacob's desire to play for Adelaide and his own desire to play with the Crows from a young age.

He also would be aware of the potential of the Crows to be very competitive for the next decade with a strong chance of winning a Norm Smith or 2.

All of this and a strong contract offer should be good enough to counter the Sheedy factor.

 

[Mismatched]

and what is the likliehood of 80 goal season given tehy've put an offer on the table that we would expect if he had a 65 goal season....?

The assumption is the club can and would do that now... that's what I'd be pushing as Tex's manager to find out.

Having said all that... that is totally ignoring the people element and do we actually want to play hard ball now or actually base it on his real contributions.

As crow-mo pointed out.. people are paid on potential all the time. And I don't think that's too inappropriate, especially in sport. up to the coaches to then get the best out of him.

The issue we have regarding just slapping a massive contract on the table now, relates to the salary cap. Paying Walker a massive salary will have big ramifications for our contract negotiations with other players, especially if he weren't to live up to the hype. What happens to team morale when we're paying shit loads of cash to an average footballer?

Tying up Walker won't make the GWS go away and leave us alone, they'll just move onto another target and we'd be playing into their hands by signing up Walker to a massive contract now, because that would mean we would have less money to offer the next guy they target.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

and what is the likliehood of 80 goal season given tehy've put an offer on the table that we would expect if he had a 65 goal season....?

The assumption is the club can and would do that now... that's what I'd be pushing as Tex's manager to find out.

Having said all that... that is totally ignoring the people element and do we actually want to play hard ball now or actually base it on his real contributions.

As crow-mo pointed out.. people are paid on potential all the time. And I don't think that's too inappropriate, especially in sport. up to the coaches to then get the best out of him.[/QUOTE

He hasnt played a full season without being dropped yet! He is being offered money on potential and that is fair enough. The right time to sign is all about when his stocks are the highest. And let me tell you unless you are a pesimist now is not the time!

 

[The Crows Truth]

with the older guy retiring, freeing up big dollars in the SC, i could imagine the club keeping 500k+ up their sleeve in 2011 to be able to front load his next contract by effectively upgrading this years salary by a significant number to dilute GWS distint financial advantage for his next contract.

eg along these sort of lines..we offer 3 year contract x $400k/yr for period 2012-2014 PLUS 500k upgrade to 2010 = $1.7 total for next contract

this would mean GWS would need to offer $567k/yr for 2012-2014 just to break even..

walker will stay imo. warning: this issue is going to be quite painful having to listen to the whiny prophets of doom over coming month

 

[Allefgib]

guys - the question posed was what would I do as Tex's manager.

Your viewpoint from the clubs perspective is therefore largely irrelevant

 

[crowsup]

Before the club offers Tex a large contract on '"potential", It should be reminded of what Carlton paid for kuda's "Potential"?

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Before the club offers Tex a large contract on '"potential", It should be reminded of what Carlton paid for kuda's "Potential"?

Yeah and that same club offered Steven Kernahan the captaincy on potential as a 22 year old and look how that worked out.

 

[Godallblighty]

I think there are several reasons to be optimistic.

He would be aware of the loyalty of his fellow teammates to the Crows....
Tippet (He made his choice after a generous offer from GC)
Dangerfield (he was pretty vocal in his opposition to Bock's move)
Neither of the above are "local boys" but this doesn't seem to matter.
Jacob's desire to play for Adelaide and his own desire to play with the Crows from a young age.

He also would be aware of the potential of the Crows to be very competitive for the next decade with a strong chance of winning a Norm Smith or 2.

strong chance = slight possibility
or 2 = or never seeing a GF in his entire playing career

Apart from that outrageous counting of chicken embryos, I agree.

 

[razorsedge]

Perhaps the right thing to look at is that there was interest from Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton as well as Gold Coast so the pressure is from all angles and the AFC knows that and the club should table an offer mid season, bear in mind that Andy Otten and Phil Davis are possibly out of contract and the club would be mindful of keeping all three at the club. It will be interesting to see the character of the lad as this will be a major distraction all year until resolved.
The ernormous favour in AFC favour is that he loves the club and the lifestyle in Adelaide suits him with his accessibilty to frequently travel home and not miss a beat at the AFC.
I would suggest that BF ride the wave of enthusiasm that this young team can bring this year and let the dice roll in appreciation on the potential and real ability that this team possesses.
Bring it on CROWS !

 

[Pariah]

I can understand where Tex's manager is coming from.
I'm not sure how we are going to be able to afford Taylor's contract/pay rise and any other possible contract renewals when we didn't have room in the salary cap to use all our rookie draft picks.
Other factors take into consideration:
Jacob's rumored high priced contract.
Doughty likely to be our only retirement. Which wouldn't free up much room in the salary cap.
Other out of contract players who step up and also want a pay increase.
So we may have to trade out a player or two to keep Tex.
Hopefully we can keep him

 

[Allefgib]

whats the rumour on Jacob's contract?

Tex's manager should easily be able to argue that his client should be on more than jacobs.

So if we as a club forked out big bucks for jacobs we're going to need to do better again to keep tex. If we aren't prepared to we are stupid IMO.

 

[Crow-mo]

Before the club offers Tex a large contract on '"potential", It should be reminded of what Carlton paid for kuda's "Potential"?

What the....

Kouta's back ended contract was based on performance when he was just about the best player in the league. he ended up getting screwed took less in early years and never got his payday cause the club messed up.

you sure you're not thinking of someone else?

 

[Crow-mo]

if you were tex's manager, it would all depend on how fair the contract put in front of you was. if the club is showing faith and backing your client in a meaningful way, and be wants to stay. you sign a 2 year deal.

if the club tends to be one that nevers pay up until forced to, you gather offers for leverage. i.e. you defer talks

if client wants to leave, you defer talks

 

[crowsup]

What the....

Kouta's back ended contract was based on performance when he was just about the best player in the league. he ended up getting screwed took less in early years and never got his payday cause the club messed up.

you sure you're not thinking of someone else?

I may be wrong but I believe that Kuda did not play too many games in his last three years at the club.
He may have been cheated by the club with his pay, but that is another matter.
The point I'm trying to make is that this waiting for a better deal is a two edged sword.
I think that Tex's manager should be talking to the club and really consider it. Tex and his manager will then have to decide if they believe the offer is fair and not that it may be bettered by the GWS. After all, hentschel had lots of potential in 2006.
Having said all this, I must agree with Alex (I never thought I would) regarding Kernahan. Sometimes it pays to take chances.

 

[Elite Crow]

if you were tex's manager, it would all depend on how fair the contract put in front of you was. if the club is showing faith and backing your client in a meaningful way, and be wants to stay. you sign a 2 year deal.

if the club tends to be one that nevers pay up until forced to, you gather offers for leverage. i.e. you defer talks

if client wants to leave, you defer talks

Thats the way I read it as well. Like Tippett we will end up paying Walker the contract he wants if we want to keep him. Walker and his manager know now what that amount is, we are the ones showing the lack of faith in him by not paying it now.

I also think there is a little bit more to it. If you were Walker and felt at times you were hard done by, would you sign up again before you knew things had changed. He may not leave for more money but for less hassle.

 

[Crow-mo]

I may be wrong but I believe that Kuda did not play too many games in his last three years at the club.

who is Kuda?
and he played 52 games in the last 3 years of that contract.

not sure what you're getting at

He may have been cheated by the club with his pay, but that is another matter.

actually it is not another matter. he signed a fair market contract, which the club reneged on. that is the only issue around that contract.

The point I'm trying to make is that this waiting for a better deal is a two edged sword.

but your example makes no sense?