Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[Sttew]

Who said 800,000 on what are being privately built?

Over and over this thread gets filled with the most moronic replies and complaints.

One excellent initiative they've announced is a registry of designs for fast approval of the plan. That in itself will dramatically contribute to rapid addition of housing stock, since you'll end up with a supply chain, builders and tradies dedicated to and experienced in these builds and a rapid approvals process.

You cannot be serious? A registry of designs will miraculously bring about a talent pool of tradesmen? Where are the tradies going to come from to build these homes?

“Master Builders Australia estimates about 470,000 workers - including 200,000 in trades - will need to enter the building and construction industry over the next 4.5 years to meet forecast growth and replacement”.

https://hia.com.au/our-industry/newsroom/economic-research-and-forecasting/2023/04/shortage-of-skilled-trades-remains-acute-despite-return-of-skilled-migration#:~:text=“The%20shortages%20are%20particularly%20acute,during%20the%20pandemic%20will%20shrink.

If you can't find a tradie, you're not alone — experts say a 'perfect storm' has hit the industry

For more than two years, Colleen has been stuck in construction purgatory. She has the land, finances and contract to build — but finding tradies who can do the work is another story entirely.

www.abc.net.au

 

[tandino]

Magic.

Don't believe in the State Government's ability to deliver?

FOR SHAME.

 

[Sttew]

Be provocatively dumb, get called out for it.

You looked in the mirror? Good on you

 

[MarcMaverick]

There is no consolation for being a self celebrating idiot.

Also, I'm not without criticisms of the Victorian Labor government, they just come from a different direction to you cookers.

I'm also well aware that they are infinitely better than the alternative. Now if the Greens could form a worthwhile opposition, then we'd see even healthier progress for Victoria. Competition from the left would keep Labor honest.

You have insufficient information to formulate said accusation.

I said "magic" and you flew off the handle.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Who said 800,000 on what are being privately built?

Over and over this thread gets filled with the most moronic replies and complaints.

One excellent initiative they've announced is a registry of designs for fast approval of the plan. That in itself will dramatically contribute to rapid addition of housing stock, since you'll end up with a supply chain, builders and tradies dedicated to and experienced in these builds and a rapid approvals process.

So they will suck up all the tradies with hugely inflated rates / wages and no-one else will be able to get their home built?

Rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

[MarcMaverick]

So they will suck up all the tradies with hugely inflated rates / wages and no-one else will be able to get their home built?

Rob Peter to pay Paul.

Magical Robin Hood.

 

[nut]

You cannot be serious? A registry of designs will miraculously bring about a talent pool of tradesmen? Where are the tradies going to come from to build these homes?

“Master Builders Australia estimates about 470,000 workers - including 200,000 in trades - will need to enter the building and construction industry over the next 4.5 years to meet forecast growth and replacement”.

https://hia.com.au/our-industry/newsroom/economic-research-and-forecasting/2023/04/shortage-of-skilled-trades-remains-acute-despite-return-of-skilled-migration#:~:text=“The%20shortages%20are%20particularly%20acute,during%20the%20pandemic%20will%20shrink.

If you can't find a tradie, you're not alone — experts say a 'perfect storm' has hit the industry

For more than two years, Colleen has been stuck in construction purgatory. She has the land, finances and contract to build — but finding tradies who can do the work is another story entirely.

www.abc.net.au

200,000 dwellings were built nationally in 2019!!!!
That’s 2 million over 10 years…
800,000 in vic seems achievable

 

[Sttew]

200,000 dwellings were built nationally in 2019!!!!
That’s 2 million over 10 years…
800,000 in vic seems achievable

I hope you’re right!

 

[Crankyhawk]

200,000 dwellings were built nationally in 2019!!!!
That’s 2 million over 10 years…
800,000 in vic seems achievable

I thought the question posed was 800000 new builds in 10 years ON TOP of regular projected build over this time or whether it was to build 800000 in 10 years and there was some unknown number (maybe in the ballpark of 600-700k idk) that would have been built anyway without any new government initiatives.
The first seems unlikely
The second seems possible but it is then a media spin to make it appear that the initiative leads to 800k vs nothing without (misleading)

So it is probably option b.

 

[Gralin]

I thought the question posed was 800000 new builds in 10 years ON TOP of regular projected build over this time or whether it was to build 800000 in 10 years and there was some unknown number (maybe in the ballpark of 600-700k idk) that would have been built anyway without any new government initiatives.
The first seems unlikely
The second seems possible but it is then a media spin to make it appear that the initiative leads to 800k vs nothing without (misleading)

So it is probably option b.

the statement says they're aiming to get 800k dwellings built across the state over the next 10 years

no mention of 800k additional dwellings

in 2021-2022 Victoria increased total dwelling stock by 50k (50,310)

The plan is calling for 80k to be built a year but they're making it easier to build high density projects as well and they're basically stopping councils from blocking developments

this program is developer heaven they've got state government backing to do pretty much whatever they want its likely to be an absolute ****ing mess

but as usual instead of saying we're trying to build an extra 300k dwellings over 10 years they're including the expected natural growth to make their numbers sound bigger

I'd be shocked with projected population growth if they were really even adding an extra 300k into the pot

and lets remember they aren't guaranteeing any of this they're saying to the private sector you should go and do this, here is $5 billion dollars and we'll make it harder for local communities and councils to have any say in what you do

it is largely as everything is these days

for show

it's not going to address any of the root causes of our problems

 

[Gralin]

oh and if you want to get even more weaselly with their words

they're not promising an increase in housing stock of 800k, just that they're going to try and build 800k new dwellings, so things like the knock down rebuild will be in that 800k

so there is no guarantee when you look at those numbers that its even really going to add any more housing than we would have got anyway

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

You cannot be serious? A registry of designs will miraculously bring about a talent pool of tradesmen? Where are the tradies going to come from to build these homes?

“Master Builders Australia estimates about 470,000 workers - including 200,000 in trades - will need to enter the building and construction industry over the next 4.5 years to meet forecast growth and replacement”.

https://hia.com.au/our-industry/newsroom/economic-research-and-forecasting/2023/04/shortage-of-skilled-trades-remains-acute-despite-return-of-skilled-migration#:~:text=“The%20shortages%20are%20particularly%20acute,during%20the%20pandemic%20will%20shrink.

If you can't find a tradie, you're not alone — experts say a 'perfect storm' has hit the industry

For more than two years, Colleen has been stuck in construction purgatory. She has the land, finances and contract to build — but finding tradies who can do the work is another story entirely.

www.abc.net.au

It's a double edged sword though , isn't it mate?

The conservatives cry about increasing immigration numbers yet also bitch about the lack of skilled labour and the lack of services and infrastructure.

I am not entirely sure what the answer is but what I do know is that they cannot have it both ways.

 

[Gralin]

It's a double edged sword though , isn't it mate?

The conservatives cry about increasing immigration numbers yet also bitch about the lack of skilled labour and the lack of services and infrastructure.

I am not entirely sure what the answer is but what I do know is that they cannot have it both ways.

But they will
If Labor don't build stuff that's the problem
If they do that's the problem
If they don't cap immigration that's the problem
If they do that's the problem

It's just partisan barracking

 

[Gough]

It's a double edged sword though , isn't it mate?

The conservatives cry about increasing immigration numbers yet also bitch about the lack of skilled labour and the lack of services and infrastructure.

I am not entirely sure what the answer is but what I do know is that they cannot have it both ways.

It's a bit rich to gut TAFE to gift money to private training providers and then moan about a skills shortage but I guess Frances Abbott is providing an important service in whatever she's doing.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Morriscum rejects the findings of the Robodebt RC. Where he actually appeared and gave evidence.
Gladys appeared before ICAC. Rejected its findings.

It's a waste of time and money asking the LNP for accountability.

Ummmmm.... So you're saying that the inquiry scope as it stands is a waste of time and money?????

 

[Sttew]

It's a double edged sword though , isn't it mate?

The conservatives cry about increasing immigration numbers yet also bitch about the lack of skilled labour and the lack of services and infrastructure.

I am not entirely sure what the answer is but what I do know is that they cannot have it both ways.

No. Just don't make promises that are undeliverable. Why was there was nothing in the Budget about Housing? As Pessutto has rightly pointed out, this Housing Affordability Statement comes across as a hastily cobbled aspirational statement lacking detail.

Affordability Partnership To Build 800,000 Victorian Homes

The Andrews Labor Government today released its landmark package to boost housing supply and affordability in Victoria – representing the biggest shake-up to planning and housing reform in generations. Victoria is growing. We’re the fastest growing state in Australia, with our population set to...

www.premier.vic.gov.au

BTW, I haven't "cried" about immigration numbers, and pointing out the obvious about the dearth of tradies is not "bitching"

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

No. Just don't make promises that are undeliverable. Why was there was nothing in the Budget about Housing? As Pessutto has rightly pointed out, this Housing Affordability Statement comes across as a hastily cobbled aspirational statement lacking detail.

Affordability Partnership To Build 800,000 Victorian Homes

The Andrews Labor Government today released its landmark package to boost housing supply and affordability in Victoria – representing the biggest shake-up to planning and housing reform in generations. Victoria is growing. We’re the fastest growing state in Australia, with our population set to...

www.premier.vic.gov.au

BTW, I haven't "cried" about immigration numbers, and pointing out the obvious about the dearth of tradies is not "bitching"

My post quoted you but was not directed at you specifically, if that makes sense.

 

[Gralin]

My post quoted you but was not directed at you specifically, if that makes sense.

I also reckon with how much Labor policy is identical to Liberal policy these days, they're just shitty it's not their guys enacting it and they don't want to criticise something they want so they spend all their time creating conspiracy gotchas instead

 

[Saint]

No. Just don't make promises that are undeliverable. Why was there was nothing in the Budget about Housing? As Pessutto has rightly pointed out, this Housing Affordability Statement comes across as a hastily cobbled aspirational statement lacking detail.

Affordability Partnership To Build 800,000 Victorian Homes

The Andrews Labor Government today released its landmark package to boost housing supply and affordability in Victoria – representing the biggest shake-up to planning and housing reform in generations. Victoria is growing. We’re the fastest growing state in Australia, with our population set to...

www.premier.vic.gov.au

BTW, I haven't "cried" about immigration numbers, and pointing out the obvious about the dearth of tradies is not "bitching"

But better than the alternative of.....crickets.....
If there were a quick fix for housing affordability, it would be implemented. The reason LNP apply pressure in this area is that whenever anyone tries to drive house prices down, the LNP start a scare campaign and win elections: See 2019 Federal election.

The LNP have perfected the art form of complaining in areas that they themselves have no intention of fixing, not even a plan. And it's a strategy which has only a finite term of working.

Even if they win another election from whining about things for years, 4 years of inaction is all the progressive Victorian electorate would tolerate. Proceeding to elections without policies is a recipe for an inertial term of Government.

Works a treat at the Federal level where critical services aren't delivered. Nobody really cares if submarines are never built or the environment dies a too-slow-to-notice death.

 

[Gralin]

this program won't drive house prices down

the only thing that would do that would be investment taxes instead of subsidies

 

[Gralin]

states are limited in what they can do about the housing crisis without federal support for removing negative gearing

that said there are things they could do

dramatically increase public housing stock - nobody wants to
regulate short stay - nobody wants to

in fact Andrews has gone the opposite way

he's blocked councils from being able to regulate short stay, he's blocked councils from being able to regulate developers

he's taxing consumers for using short stay and handing billions to private developers to get "some social housing"

this housing program was done in consultation with the private housing sector and is pretty much their wishlist in exchange for some affordable housing

its a complete rort that is going to do long term damage to public housing in this state and will see developers having more say over housing type and location than councils

the criticism from vic libs will be luke warm because they'd secretly love most of it and their donors certainly will so they'll be told not to push back too hard

given 18 months ago the government had a cabinet approved public housing program this is just another example of how much our states are captured by private interest

Andrews doesn't give a shit about public, media or political backlash from his opponents, but the money that flows into Labor coffers from special interests and the pressure they can put on? yeah this is the result

 

[hawkman]

states are limited in what they can do about the housing crisis without federal support for removing negative gearing

that said there are things they could do

dramatically increase public housing stock - nobody wants to
regulate short stay - nobody wants to

in fact Andrews has gone the opposite way

he's blocked councils from being able to regulate short stay, he's blocked councils from being able to regulate developers

he's taxing consumers for using short stay and handing billions to private developers to get "some social housing"

this housing program was done in consultation with the private housing sector and is pretty much their wishlist in exchange for some affordable housing

its a complete rort that is going to do long term damage to public housing in this state and will see developers having more say over housing type and location than councils

the criticism from vic libs will be luke warm because they'd secretly love most of it and their donors certainly will so they'll be told not to push back too hard

given 18 months ago the government had a cabinet approved public housing program this is just another example of how much our states are captured by private interest

Andrews doesn't give a s**t about public, media or political backlash from his opponents, but the money that flows into Labor coffers from special interests and the pressure they can put on? yeah this is the result

Is it social housing or affordable housing?

 

[Gralin]

Is it social housing or affordable housing?

yeah a lot of talk about both

deliberate muddying of the waters going on

social housing includes public housing but isn't just public housing

so when they say social they want you to think public but not have to commit to public

affordable is usually 10% off market rate which for the majority of people doesn't make it affordable its complete bullshit

 

[Gralin]

this push for social and affordable housing is national and coordinated and supported by the housing industry

they're pushing for tax payer money and land to profit off so this isn't unique to Vic

Feds use this language in the HAFF as well

 

[Gralin]

but what we've got is Labor in power almost everywhere and all doing the same thing in lockstep