Injury Dawson Simpson - back surgery

[meto]

For the upcoming season, sure. But, I think he was our most valuable draft choice in relation to our chances in 2012 the day we picked him.

Very true, but I did cartwheels when Wells called out Jordan Murdoch, pick 48 at the draft, how highly must he rate Hamling if he took JM third choice?
Carn't believe the others left him for us, anyhow Orren is the man for 2012, we must credit Wells, Balme and others for the foresight to cover a percieved weakness by plucking Orren with a late pick, much to the shock and amazement of the footy media.
Geelong list management genius, but things are tight ATM IMO!

One for PO, How much more likely is it now that Ryan Bathie is promoted to senior player status?
A real utility tall would go well!

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

geez some of you guys are carrying on a but aren't you

what's the worry? West was playing every bit as good as Ottens by finals time and given another good pre-season knowing full well he's the mian man...he's gonna be one of the best ruckman in league for 2012.

The big 'O is seasoned and ready-made to jump straight into the AFL. He's not a young up and coming hopeful, he's been the best ruckman in the VFL for the past 4 to 5 years and stands 6ft'7 and over 100kg...he's a monster.
Vardy will be up and going hopefully by rounds 15 or onwards and we have also got a Bathie lingering in the 2's and pushing for selection anytime soon.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

I think the bigger loss will be that of Menzel as he had the ability to outmark any defender as well as kick goals like Stevie J.

 

[vinum coupe]

what's the worry? West was playing every bit as good as Ottens by finals time and given another good pre-season knowing full well he's the mian man...he's gonna be one of the best ruckman in league for 2012.

Pull another one bobby

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Pull another one bobby

Ottens - 10.5 disposals, 23 Hitouts, 2.5 marks, 5.5 tackles, 1.5 inside 50's and 2 goals in the finals.

West - 7.5 disposals, 21 Hitouts, 2.5 marks, 2.5 tackles, 2 inside 50's and 2 goals in the finals.

The season stats were:
Ottens - 13.5 disposals, 25 Hitouts, 3.5 marks, 3.5 tackles, 1.5 inside 50's and 15 goals in 20 games played.

West - 9 disposals, 20.5 Hitouts, 3 marks, 4 tackles, 3 inside 50's and 7 goals in only 9 games played.


Now I think we all know how easily you like to write off some players and the club like at the start of the year (and also the in game thread when Stevie J did his knee and you or Veedubs declared we have no chance at winning it now)
Please explain to me why you feel West has no chance of becoming a top line ruckman in 2012 when you consider he nearly matched Ottens in hitouts & marks and played 11 games less than Otto?

 

[vinum coupe]

Now we all know how you like to sling shit at other people on the board Bobby.
Those same people that you want to communicate with you for some strange reason.

But you said this. "West was playing every bit as good as Ottens by finals time" and "he's gonna be one of the best ruckman in league for 2012"

Go start a thread on the main board regarding it and get back to me with the results.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Now we all know how you like to sling shit at other people on the board Bobby.
Those same people that you want to communicate with you for some strange reason.

But you said this. "he's gonna be one of the best ruckman in league for 2012"

Go start a thread on the main board regarding it and get back to me with the results.

nope I only sling crap at yourself and Veedubs as you boys gave it to me on the 'Collingwood will be trouble' forum as you are well aware of.

I see new members log on like the one recently and if they do not meet you standard of attitude, your response is usually "show us some respect".

Now instead of ignoring my question as you suggested, I want you to explain why you feel West has no chance of becoming a top ruckman in 2012 considering those statistics I posted above?
And please try to answer it correctly this time without making it personal ok Vinum.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

it's fine if you wish not to answer as I kinda expected it....you did stupendously remark that Gary Ablett senior did not have a very good jumping ability which may define your knowledge of a players capabilities when on the field.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

I guess Westy has poor leaping ability as well ay vinum.

 

[you pick one]

Your comparing apples and oranges Bobby,Otto took the oppositions no1 ruck and West the no2.
How would Wests stats look if you reversed their rolls.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Your comparing apples and oranges Bobby,Otto took the oppositions no1 ruck and West the no2.
How would Wests stats look if you reversed their rolls.

at least I get someone who can give an intelligent reply back


I think we can only go by the statistics for how well the player in question did.
Your question will obviously be answered in 2012 as Westy takes the no.1 ruck role and I personally feel it's his time to develop and really become a force to reckoned with.

I dunno if it's totally apples or oranges cos if I asked you to compare Ottens to West at 24 years of age how would they go in the rucks at their respective ages?
One played forward and the other has only just been given the opportunity to prove himself.

I think we need to remember that Ottens truly developed into the dominant ruckman he was by around the age of 25 or so so West has massive upside in his game and the good thing as well is that his one percenters during games are exactly the hall marks of a talented big man.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Westy bagan to tire by the ending of the season but that would be expected as he was doing a large bulk of the no.1 ruck role while Ottens positioned his big frame forward on many occasions in the 2011 finals.

West will have a huge pre-season getting the cardio up so he can be expected to run out entire matches and the other positive is his bulk, he's over 104kg and does not get pushed off the ball like any of our other options although the new boy big 'O will likely be a similar type as well.

 

[vinum coupe]

Sorry Bobby for not being prompt in responding. I've been on a golf forum reading. A lot different from your ranting so you wont understand that.

Go post on the main board and get back to me. Last chance on the subject for you sunno. Or I'll assume you are conceding.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

People seem to be talking as if Vardy and Simpson are season write offs. Simply not the case, both will be cautiously nursed back into the side, but I would expect both to be available before round 10, probably better.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

golf forum

sunno

ahhh now I see, so your a senior well as they say...always respect the elderly and vinum', you shall be greatly surprised with Trent West as our main big man in the new 2012 season.

 

[vinum coupe]

God knows what golf has to do with age. I was playing it when I was 5 and my 4 year old is in the backyard with the wedge every night.

Anyhoo, I did your work for you Bob.
Set up the thread pretty well too, even managed to make it appear that you are not a raving lunatic to remove any possible bias.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=903492

Some good, balanced, unbiased replies.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

God knows what golf has to do with age. I was playing it when I was 5 and my 4 year old is in the backyard with the wedge every night.

Anyhoo, I did your work for you Bob.
Set up the thread pretty well too, even managed to make it appear that you are not a raving lunatic to remove any possible bias.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=903492

Some good, balanced, unbiased replies.

my word!
Your a sad and bitter little man

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

you are really missing my point on Westy and sort of manipulating my words in the process.
I did say that by finals time he was playing as good as Ottens, that's nothing to be offended about as it's just my personal opinion after watching both big blokes closely.
I felt that West was far more athletic than Ottens and running around the ground, jumping and competing with those spring heeled jacks better than Otto and he was only playing his 9th game for the entire year.

If we gave him the mantle of being the no.1 ruckman then going by those 9 game matchstats, he's going to be every bit as good as what Ottens was in 2011.

He's not as strong as Ottens but I don't remember him getting pushed off the ball to many times and he was also able to push forward and kick 7 goals which a pretty decent start as 2011 was basically his 1st genuine season of being named in our best 22.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

now you have obviously taken an objective to one of my remarks about West/Ottens and had a pot shot at me.

I simply responded back with statistics and you have gone ahead and created a thread not actually naming me but you get the gist.

I guess time will be the only answer to who was infact correct about West as I will state again in here that he will be amongst the best ruckman in 2012 (bookmark it), as they say .

 

[vinum coupe]

Why didn't you say that in the first place? (post 94)

The fact is that you can't just nonchalantly keep saying "nah it doesn't matter if player A has retired, player B will fill the void"

I guess being at the top for so long can make us over confident.
Yes sometimes player A can be replaced by player B. But it's not going to happen with all of our champions. In fact only for a very few.

If it was that easy Richmond and Melbourne wouldn't have had 25 years of emptiness.

And for me, Ottens strength was enormous when we needed it. I like West, don't get me wrong. Some of his tap work in the GF directly resulted in goals.
But they are completely different footballers.

And one is referred to as Mr September for a reason.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

I'm a big West fan and I think we should all be encouraged by the form he is now showing. I think Trent can pich hit as first ruck but I think his best value for the team is as the mobile 2nd ruck. For this reason I feel Orren will be the 1st choice provided his pre season and NAB cup shape up.
Let's hope Simpson and Vardy make it back at some stage as it will be a long season with only 2 geniune rucks.
Perhaps someone who gets to training might keep us posted - I'm tipping ( pardon the pun) Bathie might start to feature in the ruck drills...........

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Why didn't you say that in the first place? (post 94)

The fact is that you can't just nonchalantly keep saying "nah it doesn't matter if player A has retired, player B will fill the void"

I guess being at the top for so long can make us over confident.
Yes sometimes player A can be replaced by player B. But it's not going to happen with all of our champions. In fact only for a very few.

If it was that easy Richmond and Melbourne wouldn't have had 25 years of emptiness.

And for me, Ottens strength was enormous when we needed it. I like West, don't get me wrong. Some of his tap work in the GF directly resulted in goals.
But they are completely different footballers.

And one is referred to as Mr September for a reason.

that's fine and totally agree but without going totally off-subject here, Ottens time to retire was right as West is the new proto-type ruckman as we now see with Goldstein, Ryder, NicNat, Mumford etc....those bigger 6ft'8+ types are just getting exposed for sheer athleticism and although Ottens was again fantastic in September, he was up against a team who have their well documented ruck issues and the other two matches were against the teams who main ruckman were unfit.

That will sound slightly harsh from Otto's point of view and I hate criticizing any athlete as I'm here sitting behind a keyboard while their busting their gut (although I will get stuck into Collingwood players) but that's the reason why I may keep saying player B will fill the void.

The game is evolving infront of our eyes every single year and I see Geelong having the right amount of balance as it stands to stay competitive and take the game into this new era

 

[Turbocat]

IMO , while West was improving with every game he was playing in srs , I would not say he was up to Ottens in the finals, esp the GF. Ottens best was behind him but he was a very mature performer and could be relied for a settled performance. I just felt Westy was still trying to feel like he belonged in the GF. The kick into the mark for instance. Ottens first 5 minutes was crucial to our win. He softened Jolly and ensured his sore body was hurting.

West, who I have always be a big wrap for , is a player who will continue to improve and if they had played him more instead of Blake he may well be one of the best rucks by now. He never showed a lot but he did always show something like the mark against the Swans in the square in his 3rd game?
For 2012 Id be very happy if really just continues to hold down his spot with his occasional high mark ,goal etc and start to show that he is more than just lucky Premiership player

 

[meto]

Thing is Otto could also play the role of monster pack breaker, I mean he spent alot of time on the ground with Selwood etc winning the ball down low.
His sheer size in the packs won us alot of possession.

Don't know if West and Orren have that side in their games?

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Thing is Otto could also play the role of monster pack breaker, I mean he spent alot of time on the ground with Selwood etc winning the ball down low.
His sheer size in the packs won us alot of possession.

Don't know if West and Orren have that side in their games?

There is absolutely no substitute for awesomeness!!! Otto was simply awesome and always brought his A game to finals.

We have to find different strengths to exploit now. Given that we haven't got the luxury of an intimidating brut who can win as much on the ground as he can in the air, we might have to start thinking about exploiting Wests mobility, maybe by playing him at number 1 for longer game time we will see him really try to push in to attacking areas and dare the opposition to come with him?

The big O' is certainly going to be no slouch, he will be capable but to expect anything more is a bit much. I'm sure that between West and O we will be able to perform quite well at the start of the year. With Vardy and Simpson hopefully making appearances towards the mid rounds of the year we can really look to try some menacing combinations. Will be interesting to see unfold.