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Aboriginal & TSI Decline in Indigenous AFL players. Should the AFL do more to address it?

Should the AFL do more to incentivise the recruitment of Indigenous players?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 32.7%
  • No

    Votes: 35 67.3%

  • Total voters
    52

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Out of curiosity, do you think these "extremely talented young indigenous players" from the NT would make it in the big league if a Darwin-based AFL team existed? If there truly are multiple players that are "extremely talented" that could make it in the AFL and are choosing running around in the NTFL instead, then that's a problem in terms of making the AFL as exciting as it possibly can be. I'd hate to think there's potentially five or more Cyril Riolis running around in the NTFL that could be entertaining the masses in the AFL, but refuse to do so because they don't want to relocate away from the NT.

Personally I don't think a Darwin AFL team would ever work. The lack of population, investment, ability to attract players or lifestyle would all be to difficult to overcome.

AFL would be better off selecting a few VFL/SANFL clubs and funding them to relocate, house etc several players at a time for a few seasons.
 
Personally I don't think a Darwin AFL team would ever work. The lack of population, investment, ability to attract players or lifestyle would all be to difficult to overcome.

AFL would be better off selecting a few VFL/SANFL clubs and funding them to relocate, house etc several players at a time for a few seasons.
Fair enough and I tend to agree, but you didn't answer the question. Do you think those "extremely talented" Indigenous players in the NT would be playing in the AFL if a Darwin-based team existed?
 
Fair enough and I tend to agree, but you didn't answer the question. Do you think those "extremely talented" Indigenous players in the NT would be playing in the AFL if a Darwin-based team existed?

Obviously yes, with a professional team based in Darwin the resources to identify and draft local talent would increase tenfold over night. With 2 additional teams (Tassie) opens up more AFL slots and those local players would either make it on the Darwin team or be exposed to the system and gather interest from the other 19 teams for trades etc.
 

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a certain number of scholarships at the top schools around the country, with the idea being it would get these kids in front of recruiting teams?

The issue then is talent identification for these kids, and making sure there is proper support in place for their education as well as football.
This already happens. The private schools, and public schools, have very fierce rivalry in sports and offer sporting scholarships to promising youngsters. Jamarra had a scholarship at Scotch. Also, the coaches that schools employ are usually ex-players or very involved in the footy world and guide the boys along the pathways to prospectively get drafted.

I’m not sure about what might be termed quotas. These can end up with unintended consequences. Finding the right prospects depends on many things apart from talent. The AFL and the clubs are businesses ultimately, and they shouldn’t have more hoops to jump through.
 
This already happens. The private schools, and public schools, have very fierce rivalry in sports and offer sporting scholarships to promising youngsters. Jamarra had a scholarship at Scotch. Also, the coaches that schools employ are usually ex-players or very involved in the footy world and guide the boys along the pathways to prospectively get drafted.

I’m not sure about what might be termed quotas. These can end up with unintended consequences. Finding the right prospects depends on many things apart from talent. The AFL and the clubs are businesses ultimately, and they shouldn’t have more hoops to jump through.

Wasn't aware of that.

Enforcing quotas can be dangerous. Especially based on race.

The idea that 2-3 Indigenous kids could be on a list when they "don't deserve it" becomes counter intuitive.

I was looking at it kinda like the Irish boys.

I don't think it's alarm bells but there's actions the teams can take if they want to try and raise the floor in terms of support.
 
Please elaborate, I would love to hear more. What are the issues and what do 'they' need to do about it.

The biggest issue is we need to stamp out domestic violence in indigenous communities, which is the highest recorded rates anywhere on earth. Indigenous women in remote communities are between 34-80 times more likely to suffer domestic violence. Very very few people speak out on this issue though, wonder why.

Kids from broken homes generally end up going down a bad path.
 
If there isn't a local football club to join then that is likely because there isn't enough numbers to have a team. Living in a remote area is a massive road block for anyone, regardless of race. Other than informal games, which I am sure are being played consistently, I don't know what kind of competitions can be had when you consider the size of the country and the hours of travel between towns and communities.
There needs to be pathways for these kids to represent the state and junior development squads which can without a doubt be improved. Extra spots on an AFL list though? That is a tough sell when so many kids don't get an opportunity to make it because of list sizes, skill, fitness, size etc of whatever metric is used to decide they are not quite good enough to make it onto an AFL list.
I don't know how you overcome location without moving away before your draft year ala Anthony McDonald-Tippenwuti and plenty of others.

Why? There are more migrant families in Australia every year, the population of those somewhere probably around 10x that of aboriginal players. It is a far larger talent pool if you can get the kids playing.

That is the exact same argument as focusing on migrant families but again, with a bigger talent pool.

Clubs will find loopholes in anything you give them. There are players currently in the AFL who are finding they are indigenous later in life. I am not questioning their aboriginality but those players did not have the same barriers as the players that grew up in an indigenous community. I think if you based it on being from remote places, and not race, it would be more successful.

But those kids with those last names already have a privilege's because of their last name that the average kid you are campaigning for does not. They come from families already in the system and would likely take away the spots you are saying should go to disadvantaged kids. If they are talented they will be highlighted because of their last name.

I personally don't like any kind of policy or practice that focuses on racial background. There are kids of all races all around the world who are from a marginalized community but because of their parents and families that grow up more privileged and with a better chance at life than most kids. Yes, they may still face barriers because people can be racist but those barriers aren't the same or as frequent as someone that had a really horrible upbringing regardless of race.

Growing up I played footy with a lot of aboriginal kids. There were some from families that were heavily invested in their footballing future, they always had a ride to and from training, always had a lift to the games, always had parental presence at their games. Conversely, I also played with kids from multiple races (including aboriginal) that had none of that. They had to find their own way to training and games, often with a lift from another parent that lived near by or by riding their bike etc. sometimes had to find their own way to pay fees etc. How do you balance that out for fairness?
Let's look at things realistically and politically incorrectly.
We have had alot of immigration from India. Indians love cricket. I wouldn't waste time on trying to convert Indian kids to play AFL when I could be putting that effort into getting more indigenous kids into the system. I dont rate Indians as natural AFL talent as I do indigenous ones.
Let's be real here.

We have created extra rookie spots for clubs to take a risk on a player who was playing basketball and wants to try his hand at AFL. These additional spots havent taken anything away from other talented kids from getting in a list.
It's additional to what we already have. Same goes for my idea. Add an additional 4 rookie spots for indigenous kids, who clubs can take a punt on. The other benefit is that if they don't make it at AFL level, they would be in a good position with their development to make a good career at the state leagues, again, giving more talent options down the line for those clubs.

There isn't any negatives to it, and clubs won't be forced to use those list spots up if they don't have anyone suitable.

Whats the negative? What if from all those kids we end up with two or three new Riolis?
 

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It’s a shame like a lot of threads the viccentric money hungry AFL miss another trick.
Having extra list spots, walk in through academy would be a massive positive not only for the game but the regions where talents from.
I lived in Alice Springs the passion for footy is immense.
but by doing that it won’t help the vic clubs firstly.
Secondly there’s no money in it.
Money is east, put all the investment into new money markets.
 
To make it in the AFL you have to first have the talent.

Then more importantly you have to have the drive and willingness to sacrifice a lot to make it to the highest level.

Don't many of the indigenous kids who potentially tick these boxes get given scholarships to elite schools anyway?
 
Let's look at things realistically and politically incorrectly.
We have had alot of immigration from India. Indians love cricket. I wouldn't waste time on trying to convert Indian kids to play AFL when I could be putting that effort into getting more indigenous kids into the system. I dont rate Indians as natural AFL talent as I do indigenous ones.
Let's be real here.

We have created extra rookie spots for clubs to take a risk on a player who was playing basketball and wants to try his hand at AFL. These additional spots havent taken anything away from other talented kids from getting in a list.
It's additional to what we already have. Same goes for my idea. Add an additional 4 rookie spots for indigenous kids, who clubs can take a punt on. The other benefit is that if they don't make it at AFL level, they would be in a good position with their development to make a good career at the state leagues, again, giving more talent options down the line for those clubs.

There isn't any negatives to it, and clubs won't be forced to use those list spots up if they don't have anyone suitable.

Whats the negative? What if from all those kids we end up with two or three new Riolis?

The allocation of additional rookie spots for athletically gifted players not currently participating in AFL is based on athletic potential and performance, rather than race. In contrast, the proposal being put forward is exclusively race-based, which would be viewed as exclusionary to individuals of other backgrounds.

Prioritising opportunities based solely on race, rather than on merit or ability, has historically led to perceptions of inequality and unintended division. Such approaches risk fostering resentment and undermining the principles of fairness and equal opportunity, especially if individuals are seen to be advancing without meeting the same performance standards as others.
 
It’s a shame like a lot of threads the viccentric money hungry AFL miss another trick.
Having extra list spots, walk in through academy would be a massive positive not only for the game but the regions where talents from.
I lived in Alice Springs the passion for footy is immense.
but by doing that it won’t help the vic clubs firstly.
Secondly there’s no money in it.
Money is east, put all the investment into new money markets.

Takes more than "a passion for footy" to make it in the AFL.. otherwise many of the bigfooty posters here would be Brownlow medalists.
 
The allocation of additional rookie spots for athletically gifted players not currently participating in AFL is based on athletic potential and performance, rather than race. In contrast, the proposal being put forward is exclusively race-based, which would be viewed as exclusionary to individuals of other backgrounds.

Prioritising opportunities based solely on race, rather than on merit or ability, has historically led to perceptions of inequality and unintended division. Such approaches risk fostering resentment and undermining the principles of fairness and equal opportunity, especially if individuals are seen to be advancing without meeting the same performance standards as others.
The easy solution is make the cat b spots location based not race based.
 
The allocation of additional rookie spots for athletically gifted players not currently participating in AFL is based on athletic potential and performance, rather than race. In contrast, the proposal being put forward is exclusively race-based, which would be viewed as exclusionary to individuals of other backgrounds.

Prioritising opportunities based solely on race, rather than on merit or ability, has historically led to perceptions of inequality and unintended division. Such approaches risk fostering resentment and undermining the principles of fairness and equal opportunity, especially if individuals are seen to be advancing without meeting the same performance standards as others.
We arnt talking about clubs driving around indigenous communities and abducting random kids off the street to put on their rookie spots here.
We are talking about kids who are in their NGAs, or indigenous academies, or playing football in various state leagues.
Don't be silly.
 

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We arnt talking about clubs driving around indigenous communities and abducting random kids off the street to put on their rookie spots here.
We are talking about kids who are in their NGAs, or indigenous academies, or playing football in various state leagues.
Don't be silly.

I'm unclear on the point being made regarding clubs "driving around and abducting kids" in Aboriginal communities — that kind of language seems inappropriate and unnecessarily provocative.

As others have highlighted, Aboriginal Australians represent approximately 3–4% of the national population, yet account for around 7–8% of AFL players. This indicates a strong level of representation relative to population size. Given this, it raises a valid question about whether continued inclusion in the Next Generation Academies (NGAs) remains appropriate, particularly if the goal is to address underrepresentation in the game.
 
The biggest issue is we need to stamp out domestic violence in indigenous communities, which is the highest recorded rates anywhere on earth. Indigenous women in remote communities are between 34-80 times more likely to suffer domestic violence. Very very few people speak out on this issue though, wonder why.

Kids from broken homes generally end up going down a bad path.

The issue is discussed and discussed. Most people are aware of the high rates of domestic violence. Please provide your solutions.
 
I'm unclear on the point being made regarding clubs "driving around and abducting kids" in Aboriginal communities — that kind of language seems inappropriate and unnecessarily provocative.

As others have highlighted, Aboriginal Australians represent approximately 3–4% of the national population, yet account for around 7–8% of AFL players. This indicates a strong level of representation relative to population size. Given this, it raises a valid question about whether continued inclusion in the Next Generation Academies (NGAs) remains appropriate, particularly if the goal is to address underrepresentation in the game.
The poster I was quoting was saying that the rookie spots for people coming from other sports was OK because they were athletes. My reply is that the clubs wouldn't be just grabbing any random indigenous kid off the street to add to their new rookie spots, they would be putting kids on the list who were playing AFL at various different levels.

No biggie. Its called "exaggeration for emphasis", or "hyperbolic humor + reductio ad absurdum". Classic Aussie thing.
 
Matthew Stokes on SEN today outlined it well, his view was that the only way it will ever get better is to raise the standard and professionalism of the young indigenous talent to the level of the elite nonindigenous players. We should not expect the league to adjust or change to accommodate these players but need to educate them on the professional standards required to make it at AFL level.

His view was the private school scholarship model in Vic with the APS schools is the best platform for an indigenous kid to succeed. They are put in elite football programs, taught what is expected and learn how to navigate life away from home and surrounded by good influences. Perhaps the AFL needs to fund more of these scholarships for indigenous kids, which will never be popular seen to be giving $ to elite private schools but if the outcome is more indigenous kids playing AFL then its money well spent.
 
Soft cap restrictions have massively impacted this.

Everyone laughed at Simpson with his 'only draft private school boys' comments, yet he's proven to be correct.

This is exactly what he was talking about.

Simpson mouthed what Matt Rendell said, got half as much flack as Rendell.
 

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Aboriginal & TSI Decline in Indigenous AFL players. Should the AFL do more to address it?


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