Aboriginal & TSI Decline in Indigenous AFL players. Should the AFL do more to address it?

[Kappa]

The issue is discussed and discussed. Most people are aware of the high rates of domestic violence. Please provide your solutions.

Where has it been discussed? I haven't seen it talked about in any high profile way.

The solution is going to have be internal. A lot of indigenous communities heavy press back when white people come in and try to offer help (even doctors). Its up to the leaders of the communities to start addressing this issue.

Once that issue is fixed (and it's got a LONG LONG way to go) then a lot of other issues like crime, poverty, not going to school, drug addiction ect ect will also heavily improve.

 

[boncer34]

The issue is discussed and discussed. Most people are aware of the high rates of domestic violence. Please provide your solutions.

Whats your solution?

 

[RonnieRaven]

Takes more than "a passion for footy" to make it in the AFL.. otherwise many of the bigfooty posters here would be Brownlow medalists.

But there’s talent and with the current youth crime in Alice Springs the AFL could buddy the government and create more opportunities which creates belief and more to aspire to.
A lot of the kids don’t have parents in a fit state to drive to trainings to teach healthy living to impart positive energy and belief.
by putting resources academies and support permanently in remote hubs everyone wins.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Where has it been discussed? I haven't seen it talked about in any high profile way.

The solution is going to have be internal. A lot of indigenous communities heavy press back when white people come in and try to offer help (even doctors). Its up to the leaders of the communities to start addressing this issue.

Once that issue is fixed (and it's got a LONG LONG way to go) then a lot of other issues like crime, poverty, not going to school, drug addiction ect ect will also heavily improve.

Did you miss the Closing the Gap Report. It has been discussed at every level so your 'wonder why' insinuation is null and void

7B. Table B: Outcome 13 | Closing the Gap

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families and households are safe Target 13: By 2031, the rate of all forms of family violence and abuse against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women and children is reduced at least by 50%, as progress towards zero. Indicators: Drivers

www.closingthegap.gov.au

 

[South of the Yarra]

Whats your solution?

My solution is the 5 E Principal

Expertise - Listen to the experts. The Elders of each community. Each community has different needs.


Engagement- Set up football teams, netball teams etc that are sustainable and resourced and have children engaged. The kids in the communities must be engaged.


Environment- Always maintain the connection to country especially when away from community. Aboriginal leaders need to work with kids when they are away from home.


Education- Learn to walk in both worlds.

.
Empowerment- Have Aboriginal leaders working with the teenagers of the community to empower these kids to be responsible for their own decisions, be on their own board of managements. Be empowered to teach others. Communities must become self-reliant.

Until Aboriginal people are empowered to take back ownership of themselves nothing will change.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Matthew Stokes on SEN today outlined it well, his view was that the only way it will ever get better is to raise the standard and professionalism of the young indigenous talent to the level of the elite nonindigenous players. We should not expect the league to adjust or change to accommodate these players but need to educate them on the professional standards required to make it at AFL level.

His view was the private school scholarship model in Vic with the APS schools is the best platform for an indigenous kid to succeed. They are put in elite football programs, taught what is expected and learn how to navigate life away from home and surrounded by good influences. Perhaps the AFL needs to fund more of these scholarships for indigenous kids, which will never be popular seen to be giving $ to elite private schools but if the outcome is more indigenous kids playing AFL then its money well spent.

The Victorian APS Private School Scholarship model is an absolute disaster for many Aboriginal kids.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Decline in Indigenous AFL players. Should the AFL do more to address it?​

Hell YES.

 

[GC2015]

We have had a massive decline at our club, we used to have like 6-8 indienous players during our recent premiership years.

now only 2.

After reading your comment, I went through the last 25 premiers to see how many Indigenous players each team had. Seems like the teams that had sustained premiership success (Richmond, Hawthorn, Brisbane) had a good contingent of Indigenous players along the way and flash in the pan flags like the Dogs had very little Indigenous representation. Not sure if there's anything in that.

2024: Brisbane - 2 (Ah Chee, Cameron)
2023: Collingwood - 1 (Bo.Hill)
2022: Geelong - 2 (Parfitt, Stengle)
2021: Melbourne - 2 (May, Pickett)
2020: Richmond - 4 (Bolton, Edwards, K.Pickett, D.Rioli)

2019: Richmond - 4 (Bolton, Edwards, Pickett, D.Rioli)
2018: West Coast - 3 (Jetta, W.Rioli, Ryan)
2017: Richmond - 2 (Edwards, D.Rioli)
2016: Bulldogs - 1 (Hamling)
2015: Hawthorn - 3 (Burgoyne, Br.Hill, C.Rioli)

2014: Hawthorn - 3 (Burgoyne, Br.Hill, C.Rioli)
2013: Hawthorn - 4 (Burgoyne, Franklin, Br.Hill, C.Rioli)
2012: Sydney - 2 (Goodes, Jetta)
2011: Geelong - 3 (Christenen, Stokes, Varcoe)
2010: Collingwood - 2 (Davis, Wellingham)

2009: Geelong - 1 (Varcoe)
2008: Hawthorn - 4 (Bateman, Franklin, Rioli, Williams)
2007: Geelong - 1 (Stokes)
2006: West Coast - 1 (Wirrpanda)
2005: Sydney - 2 (Goodes, O'Loughlin)

2004: Port Adelaide - 4 (S.Burgoyne, P.Burgoyne, B.Pickett, Wanganeen)
2003: Brisbane - 3 (Johnson, McGrath, White)
2002: Brisbane - 3 (Headland, Johnson, White)
2001: Brisbane - 2 (Johnson, White)
2000: Essendon - 1 (Long)

 

[Altum Volantes]

Clubs are risk adverse and whether anybody is willing to admit it or not, Aboriginal players are over-represented in ‘high maintenance’ players around the league.

Does the league exempt specific Aboriginal support roles from the footy department cap?

If they don’t, that would be an easy win and remove a potential barrier.

That all said, I don’t think the ‘headcount’ is in dire straits just yet and will likely rise and fall in waves over time either way.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

The Victorian APS Private School Scholarship model is an absolute disaster for many Aboriginal kids.

Well that is more about the school and support structures in place, or perhaps the wrong kids were selected, but its also likely that had these kids also been put into an AFL environment straight from the territory the same issues would have presented. Having them board at an APS schools flushes this out before they are sent to the highly stressful environment of a professional sports club.

Is this system the best for the kids.. probably not, i am sure having them stay at home as long as possible is best however if the outcome is to prepare them for life at an AFL club then I am not sure there is a better model.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

The issue is discussed and discussed. Most people are aware of the high rates of domestic violence. Please provide your solutions.

Well I think you have provided a solution with the 5 E's. Elders are already empowered to step up and make changes, to provide the expertise and education to make a difference.

If they aren't doing that already, then, they are poor leaders.

 

[p4p1]

Let's look at things realistically and politically incorrectly.
We have had alot of immigration from India. Indians love cricket. I wouldn't waste time on trying to convert Indian kids to play AFL when I could be putting that effort into getting more indigenous kids into the system. I dont rate Indians as natural AFL talent as I do indigenous ones.
Let's be real here.

If you don't rate an Indian person's athletic potential because many are interested in things other than footy then it can't be put down to anything other than racism and/or some kind of superiority complex.
It sounds a bit like when Floyd Mayweather accused Manny Pacquiao of taking PEDs based on being Asian/Philipino and not having the genetics to be that athletic. Just complete racist bullshit.

We have created extra rookie spots for clubs to take a risk on a player who was playing basketball and wants to try his hand at AFL. These additional spots havent taken anything away from other talented kids from getting in a list.
It's additional to what we already have. Same goes for my idea. Add an additional 4 rookie spots for indigenous kids, who clubs can take a punt on. The other benefit is that if they don't make it at AFL level, they would be in a good position with their development to make a good career at the state leagues, again, giving more talent options down the line for those clubs.

So you are saying 4 extra rookie spots for aboriginal players. So an extra 72 positions based on race. There is a maximum of 44 players to be allowed on lists currently. 44x18 = 792 players all up. Not all teams have a 44 player list currently. But you are advocating for what is almost a 10% increase (far more than the national population %) for Indigenous players.

There isn't any negatives to it, and clubs won't be forced to use those list spots up if they don't have anyone suitable.

Whats the negative? What if from all those kids we end up with two or three new Riolis?

Well there is negatives to it. Clubs would be pressured into using all the spots. The negatives are that it gives an unfair advantage to kids who might not deserve to be there. Imagine working your ass off, not being quite good enough to make it to AFL level but the guy you played with who doesn't work as hard (in this scenario only), isn't as talented or as good as you but then gets gifted a spot based on their race.
There is already a ton of programs and scholarships to elite schools that are only available to indigenous children. Based on anecdotal evidence and growing up with some of these kids, it is almost exclusively based on athletic talent. I don't know how this translates to kids in remote communities, I suspect that many would struggle to meet minimum English competency exams based off Anthony McDonald-Tippanwuti's story. I don't think it is a stretch to say that he wouldn't have been the only kid who didn't speak English and probably not at a schooling level to keep up.

I'm not sure if you are Aboriginal or not but you are coming off as someone who is not, but is a white savior. Essentially what you are saying is that these people can't help themselves or are capable of understanding the sacrifices that must be made to play elite sport. But it has been done by so many Indigenous athletes, there is too many to name, from all parts of Australia, including cities and remote communities.

 

[p4p1]

Well that is more about the school and support structures in place, or perhaps the wrong kids were selected, but its also likely that had these kids also been put into an AFL environment straight from the territory the same issues would have presented. Having them board at an APS schools flushes this out before they are sent to the highly stressful environment of a professional sports club.

Is this system the best for the kids.. probably not, i am sure having them stay at home as long as possible is best however if the outcome is to prepare them for life at an AFL club then I am not sure there is a better model.

I had friends who had scholarships to elite schools in Perth, a big difference for my mates though, is that they were all from Perth so while the commute may have been a bastard sometimes, they were able to stay at home.

You also have schools like Clontarf Aboriginal College which has an excellent record of recruiting talented kids and getting them to the AFL. I had friends that went there as well. I am not in a position to say whether or not that is a better environment than a traditional elite private school or not but there is also opportunities that specifically cater to these kids run by elders as well.

 

[Jedi01]

My solution is the 5 E Principal

Expertise - Listen to the experts. The Elders of each community. Each community has different needs.


Engagement- Set up football teams, netball teams etc that are sustainable and resourced and have children engaged. The kids in the communities must be engaged.


Environment- Always maintain the connection to country especially when away from community. Aboriginal leaders need to work with kids when they are away from home.


Education- Learn to walk in both worlds.

.
Empowerment- Have Aboriginal leaders working with the teenagers of the community to empower these kids to be responsible for their own decisions, be on their own board of managements. Be empowered to teach others. Communities must become self-reliant.

Until Aboriginal people are empowered to take back ownership of themselves nothing will change.

The above happens in every Committee, Board, working group I have been involved/seen to address 'insert indigenous issue'. Sounds great, everyone pats each other on the back after months of work, meetings, preparing reports etc never works and same issue continues on until a new group/gov attempt to address again.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Well I think you have provided a solution with the 5 E's. Elders are already empowered to step up and make changes, to provide the expertise and education to make a difference.

If they aren't doing that already, then, they are poor leaders.

How many Aboriginal elders are empowered to step up and make changes? Many are poor leaders, many have had limited education , many have had no leadership training, many are battling severe health issues, many are Stolen Generation battling their own demons, many are exposed to drugs, alcohol and violence. These elders do their best, can offer wonderful advice but don't even have agency over themselves. It is the younger generation that need to be empowered to take control of themselves.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The above happens in every Committee, Board, working group I have been involved/seen to address 'insert indigenous issue'. Sounds great, everyone pats each other on the back after months of work, meetings, preparing reports etc never works and same issue continues on until a new group/gov attempt to address again.

Nah it doesn't actually. Fortunately, I have seen first hand the success it has. Maybe the wrong people were on the Boards, Committees and Working Groups if they are patting each other on the back after a few months.

 

[Jedi01]

Nah it doesn't actually. Fortunately, I have seen first hand the success it has. Maybe the wrong people were on the Boards, Committees and Working Groups if they are patting each other on the back after a few months.

The location and issue worked on would have substantial impact on your 5E working, but from my experience in the Territory it doesn't work when you attempt anything of significance.

Good luck setting up a functioning group longer than 6-months in a remote location. Territory in general is transient, but remote you have gov employees coming and going at a rapid rate, declining interest from elders, NGOs CEO/GM changes, local and Territory gov changes, funding issues, etc While a multi year diverse committed group in Melb or other cities might work, remote is a different story.

 

[Cleric]

Did you miss the Closing the Gap Report. It has been discussed at every level so your 'wonder why' insinuation is null and void

7B. Table B: Outcome 13 | Closing the Gap

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families and households are safe Target 13: By 2031, the rate of all forms of family violence and abuse against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women and children is reduced at least by 50%, as progress towards zero. Indicators: Drivers

www.closingthegap.gov.au

Lol. Pointing to a table in a government report is hardly publicising it.
It's a real issue that needs more publicity without the cries of racism when people do.

My brother was a police prosecutor in Port Augusta and used to deal with issues in the indigenous communities, and he was horrified by what he saw. Not only was there endemic domestic violence, but the SA on children and incest gave him PTSD. He was personally effected by it, and some.of the issues was due to cultural practises that no one wants to discuss.

As a white person, I can sit back and ignore it because it doesn't effect me or my family, but that's not how we should be.

 

[Cleric]

If you don't rate an Indian person's athletic potential because many are interested in things other than footy then it can't be put down to anything other than racism and/or some kind of superiority complex.
It sounds a bit like when Floyd Mayweather accused Manny Pacquiao of taking PEDs based on being Asian/Philipino and not having the genetics to be that athletic. Just complete racist bullshit.

So you are saying 4 extra rookie spots for aboriginal players. So an extra 72 positions based on race. There is a maximum of 44 players to be allowed on lists currently. 44x18 = 792 players all up. Not all teams have a 44 player list currently. But you are advocating for what is almost a 10% increase (far more than the national population %) for Indigenous players.

Well there is negatives to it. Clubs would be pressured into using all the spots. The negatives are that it gives an unfair advantage to kids who might not deserve to be there. Imagine working your ass off, not being quite good enough to make it to AFL level but the guy you played with who doesn't work as hard (in this scenario only), isn't as talented or as good as you but then gets gifted a spot based on their race.
There is already a ton of programs and scholarships to elite schools that are only available to indigenous children. Based on anecdotal evidence and growing up with some of these kids, it is almost exclusively based on athletic talent. I don't know how this translates to kids in remote communities, I suspect that many would struggle to meet minimum English competency exams based off Anthony McDonald-Tippanwuti's story. I don't think it is a stretch to say that he wouldn't have been the only kid who didn't speak English and probably not at a schooling level to keep up.

I'm not sure if you are Aboriginal or not but you are coming off as someone who is not, but is a white savior. Essentially what you are saying is that these people can't help themselves or are capable of understanding the sacrifices that must be made to play elite sport. But it has been done by so many Indigenous athletes, there is too many to name, from all parts of Australia, including cities and remote communities.

If its racist for me to say that, then it's also racist to say African immigrants have great athleticism. We are not all created equal, regardless of what you may want to think. There's a reason white and Asian people excel at swimming and black people don't. There's a reason black people excel at basketball at a higher rate than white people do.
Stop the silliness.

We have indigenous academies at all AFL teams as it is. Do you call that racist as well?
We have academies for immigrants already, is that racist?

We allow Irish players to join any team they like on the rookie list without going through the draft. Is that racist?

Allowing clubs to have 4 extra spots on their lists to give them the ability to put some talented indigenous kids on the list who might make it if they come into a professional club with all the resources to develop them, can only be a good thing.
Clubs wouldn't be pressured to have to fill those spots, and they wouldn't if they didn't think they had the talent to try.
It's an addition to what they already have, and if the outcome is some extra indigenous players who make it, then it's a success.

I personally think all clubs should have an extra 4 or 5 list spots as it is. The more kids that get an opportunity on a list the better. Infact, I would add an extra player to the interchange to give another kid or player experience under their belts and to get to that 50 game mark quicker.

The aim in everything should be getting more talent into the system, so all clubs have more on their lists. It's the reason we have Northern academies, it's the reason we have an AIS squad for jrs.

Anyone who tries to limit this is small minded.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Lol. Pointing to a table in a government report is hardly publicising it.
It's a real issue that needs more publicity without the cries of racism when people do.

My brother was a police prosecutor in Port Augusta and used to deal with issues in the indigenous communities, and he was horrified by what he saw. Not only was there endemic domestic violence, but the SA on children and incest gave him PTSD. He was personally effected by it, and some.of the issues was due to cultural practises that no one wants to discuss.

As a white person, I can sit back and ignore it because it doesn't effect me or my family, but that's not how we should be.

You must have been hiding in a cave if you did not realise the severity of Domestic Violence in Aboriginal Communities. Please offer your solutions.

 

[South of the Yarra]

The location and issue worked on would have substantial impact on your 5E working, but from my experience in the Territory it doesn't work when you attempt anything of significance.

Good luck setting up a functioning group longer than 6-months in a remote location. Territory in general is transient, but remote you have gov employees coming and going at a rapid rate, declining interest from elders, NGOs CEO/GM changes, local and Territory gov changes, funding issues, etc While a multi year diverse committed group in Melb or other cities might work, remote is a different story.

Works perfectly in remote communities from my extensive experience. Empowering the kids to walk in both worlds and then return to their own communities is the key. The power for Aboriginals to act for themselves and take power of their own lives must be the priority.

 

[Spook]

Where has it been discussed? I haven't seen it talked about in any high profile way.

The solution is going to have be internal. A lot of indigenous communities heavy press back when white people come in and try to offer help (even doctors). Its up to the leaders of the communities to start addressing this issue.

Once that issue is fixed (and it's got a LONG LONG way to go) then a lot of other issues like crime, poverty, not going to school, drug addiction ect ect will also heavily improve.

Yep agreed. If the white Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne government and leftist woke bureaucrats stop being demeaning and telling aboriginals they are victims and throwing money at woke NGOs owned by their mates, and let the elders, like Jacinta Price, set the agenda and solutions then that will go a long way.
I bet All the people who will now reply to me calling me racist are either white city people or 2% “indigenous” because they are n the gravy train them selves.

 

[Spook]

The location and issue worked on would have substantial impact on your 5E working, but from my experience in the Territory it doesn't work when you attempt anything of significance.

Good luck setting up a functioning group longer than 6-months in a remote location. Territory in general is transient, but remote you have gov employees coming and going at a rapid rate, declining interest from elders, NGOs CEO/GM changes, local and Territory gov changes, funding issues, etc While a multi year diverse committed group in Melb or other cities might work, remote is a different story.

Why do you need gov employees, NGOs and Territory Government to help. They are most of the problem by treating the locals as ‘victims’ and ‘special’. Let the locals stand up and be proud for them selves and make their own local rules. Let’s be honest, all Elders want to ban grog in remote areas, but the white woke w***ers say that is racist. FFS, their people, their mob their rules.
Even the most successful organisation I know like Clontarf footy academy is getting a hard time from the aboriginal “Industry”, Clontarf works, kids go to school and have mentors. But alas a ‘Professor’ in Queensland as part of her yes campaign crap wrote a paper saying that Clontarf is ‘white’ and has too many white people on their board and should not get any government funding… FFS it’s one of the few NGOs that works, leave it alone.

This highly paid rich city living wants the money for her mates, not solutions.

Aboriginal groups criticise $39m budget funding to non-Indigenous program for boys

UQ's Lee Sheppard is quoted in this article in The Guardian.

habs.uq.edu.au

look how much success Clontarf footy academy has

https://clontarf.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Clontarf-Foundation-2024-Annual-Report.pdf

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

The Afl has no control over it. You're either food enough or you're not.

 

[HairyO]

Matt Rendell was right. Well done Vlad.

And Jason Mifsud helped push things back 10 years and ensured clubs simply wont ever talk about it again. Rendell was offering important information to help improve things and instead was labelled a racist and chased out of town.