Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Super-mega-ultrathread

[the harry]

Well, St Kilda's second-round pick will be thereabouts, won't it?

So if Brown is on the move, you'd think we be asking for it.

I think we'd take it.

 

[bodazoka]

Hopefully they really bomb out this year and there second rounder is a start of second PP

 

[Shupe]

If Brown refuses to sign a new deal and nominates the Saints, we'll trade him to the Saints. Let's face it.

Every year, supporters of clubs who face losing a player cling to this idea of sending a player to the PSD if they don't get something decent in return.

 

[keviewiggle]

Hopefully they really bomb out this year and there second rounder is a start of second PP

If Brown does elect to go next year 2014 and I don't think he will it may not be to the Saints.
I think he only wants to play regular Footy and most Victorian clubs are in need of tall defenders.
I'm not sure that the Saints are destined for too much success over the next couple of seasons and may not end up the preferred destination for Brown.
There are not too many emerging tall defenders other that at Melboure and Essendon.
But there is a group of aging talls at quite a few clubs so competition for Brown could compound in 2014.

 

[Ian Dargie]

If Brown does elect to go next year 2014 and I don't think he will it may not be to the Saints.

There are no guarantees, of course. But this still remains the most likely outcome, doesn't it?

If Brown has essentially agreed to terms with the Saints, it would take a major development for him to be persuaded to go elsewhere. Provided we can't get him to re-sign.

Another club would have to gazzump the Saints so effectively that Brown leaves it up to us to decide where to trade him. More likely, Brown, if he goes, will nominate a club. Even if it's not the Saints, there's unlikely to be a bidding war where we simply accept the best offer.

 

[swannies]

I understand what you are saying but I think Eagles are far too accommodating toward other clubs and players that want to leave and all other clubs know this. If Brown wants to go and nominates Saints, the Saints will know they will get him for whatever they want to give up. Which will be very little.

So, I'm guessing you missed the last 6 weeks when we did not agree to trade Brown, who supposedly wanted a move?

 

[bodazoka]

If Brown does elect to go next year 2014 and I don't think he will it may not be to the Saints.
I think he only wants to play regular Footy and most Victorian clubs are in need of tall defenders.
I'm not sure that the Saints are destined for too much success over the next couple of seasons and may not end up the preferred destination for Brown.
There are not too many emerging tall defenders other that at Melboure and Essendon.
But there is a group of aging talls at quite a few clubs so competition for Brown could compound in 2014.

Agree. Brown might have his heart set on the Saints though.

Geelong should be heavily into him IMO they still have the nucleus of a premiership side and added that u17 kid this draft.

 

[BroughtonMid]

not sure if this is the right thread or not but..

where will our draftees play at wafl level next year? my understanding is that the WA based draftees will stay at their current club before moving for 2014 season where as interstate draftees go straight to EP. is this correct?

 

[keviewiggle]

Agree. Brown might have his heart set on the Saints though.

Geelong should be heavily into him IMO they still have the nucleus of a premiership side and added that u17 kid this draft.

I think he will actually re sign with the Eagles.
The Saints were the only club that actually persued Brown even though he was a contracted player.
Not only a contracted player but a required contracted player.
Other clubs realized it wasn't worth the chase but it might be a different story next year if he still believes that he has greater opportunity elsewhere.

 

[QS]

If Brown is uncontracted, nominates the Saints and they offer us pick 30, what are we going to do? Send him to the PSD? I don't think so.

Nope.. we're not Adelaide

 

[Ian Dargie]

I think he will actually re sign with the Eagles.

That's what everyone is hoping.

But, barring injury to Glass or Mackenzie, how many games do you reckon Brown will play next year?

If, at the end of the year, he's played only 5-6 more games and is out of contract, is he going to stick around?

Maybe we can persuade him, particularly if it is Glass's last season, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has another year without much opportunity and then asks to be traded to the Saints. At which point, we will have to play ball. Forget this talk about the PSD or some ensuing bidding war. If we have an out-of-contract player who asks to be traded, we don't hold the cards. We've been here enough times before, surely. See Judd, Ebert, Stevens.

 

[eaglespremiers]

That's what everyone is hoping.

But, barring injury to Glass or Mackenzie, how many games do you reckon Brown will play next year?

If, at the end of the year, he's played only 5-6 more games and is out of contract, is he going to stick around?

Maybe we can persuade him, particularly if it is Glass's last season, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has another year without much opportunity and then asks to be traded to the Saints. At which point, we will have to play ball. Forget this talk about the PSD or some ensuing bidding war. If we have an out-of-contract player who asks to be traded, we don't hold the cards. We've been here enough times before, surely. See Judd, Ebert, Stevens.

We've got almost a year to work on the situation.
In a way it is a good thing that he revealed his hand early.
At worst next year we'll have some sort of contingency plan in place and, who knows, things could turn around.

 

[Truckosaurus]

We could always waggle him under Hawthorn's nose and see if they bite. If they're willing to take an old, disinterested Brian Lake they'll take anyone.

 

[Ian Dargie]

At worst next year we'll have some sort of contingency plan in place and, who knows, things could turn around.

It's not three-dimensional chess, mate.

He either re-signs or requests a trade to a club of his choice. Probably St Kilda. And then we get a relatively shitty deal.

Not sure what kind of cunning plan changes that equation.

 

[eaglespremiers]

It's not three-dimensional chess, mate.

He either re-signs or requests a trade to a club of his choice. Probably St Kilda. And then we get a relatively shitty deal.

Not sure what kind of cunning plan changes that equation.

I'm not talking about anything so complex.
We have decided to retain him for a reason.
Sure it may be only as a backup for next year.
But I doubt the West Coast coaching staff would be satisfied with leaving stones unturned.
After all it was said countless times that he is a "required player".
While he is on our list we at least have a decent chance of retaining him and I'm sure it will not be lost on those working close to Mitch Brown that his mind is not completely made up.

 

[Shupe]

Not sure what kind of cunning plan changes that equation.

Not that equation specifically. However, we have a season to possibly push somebody into defense (Fraser etc.) to develop some sort of depth/replacement if Brown does decide to leave.

Or we will do nothing. Which is likely.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I'm not talking about anything so complex.
We have decided to retain him for a reason.

Yes. Because he's contracted and we want him for back-up in 2013 and hopefully beyond if we can re-sign him.

But I doubt the West Coast coaching staff would be satisfied with leaving stones unturned.
After all it was said countless times that he is a "required player".
While he is on our list we at least have a decent chance of retaining him and I'm sure it will not be lost on those working close to Mitch Brown that his mind is not completely made up.

Not too sure what this is about.

The equation is still straightforward.

We either persuade him to stay or he asks to be traded and nominates a club. Is there a third option that I have overlooked?

 

[Ian Dargie]

Not that equation specifically. However, we have a season to possibly push somebody into defense (Fraser etc.) to develop some sort of depth/replacement if Brown does decide to leave.

Still, Brown either re-signs, or he asks to leave and nominates a club, which will probably end with us getting a shitty deal.

Is there some delicate nuance that I'm missing here?

 

[the harry]

It's not three-dimensional chess, mate.

He either re-signs or requests a trade to a club of his choice. Probably St Kilda. And then we get a relatively shitty deal.

Not sure what kind of cunning plan changes that equation.

What is a shitty deal for Brown?

Was pick 16 as a forward, hindsight says that was probably a mistake, has had numerous injuries and thus never really completed a full season properly. Can spoil a bit, but not a great contested mark. Turning circle Scott Lucas would be impressed by, seemingly lost some agility (or never had it).

Will have had six years in the system for around 60 games at most. It's not like he's an unknown quantity and clubs are expected to pay over on the hope that he is better than he's shown.

 

[Ian Dargie]

What is a shitty deal for Brown?

Pick 35-plus is fairly shitty, I reckon. I'm not saying we wouldn't take it in those circumstances, but it would be a bit of a poke in the eye, especially when you compare it to what was reportedly on the table this year.

Was pick 16 as a forward, hindsight says that was probably a mistake, has had numerous injuries and thus never really completed a full season properly. Can spoil a bit, but not a great contested mark. Turning circle Scott Lucas would be impressed by, seemingly lost some agility (or never had it).

Will have had six years in the system for around 60 games at most. It's not like he's an unknown quantity and clubs are expected to pay over on the hope that he is better than he's shown.

He would have played more games if not stuck behind Glass and Mackenzie. I don't think Brown is awesome but there's been a lack of opportunity - that's why we're having this discussion in the first place.

The reality is that, should Brown walk to the Saints in October, he will be expected to slot into St Kilda's best 22 and hold down CHB. If they get that kind of player with a pick 35-plus - a readymade 24-year-old key defender - they've done well.

And, again, given what they were reportedly willing to part with to get Brown this year, if they get him for significantly less 12 months down the line, you'd have to say that's a win for them.

 

[Slash136]

Koby 'nominated' the dogs cause they were the only Vic club that wanted him. It's not like if the pies or dons wanted him otherwise he would have gone there. He will probably struggle for a game and the dogs were pretty fair. Ebert and Cripps both wanted to go home so both clubs got a little screwed but the only one to have ever truly been able to nominate a club was Judd, which we got a good return for.

We are not mugs when it comes to trading and if brown goes we will be compensated

 

[Ian Dargie]

Koby 'nominated' the dogs cause they were the only Vic club that wanted him.

Sure about that?

The only one to have ever truly been able to nominate a club was Judd, which we got a good return for.

Really? A good return?

People weren't very happy at the time. And even with Kennedy and Masten coming on, it still looks like a win for the Blues.

Judd was our captain and the best midfielder in the comp. You reckon we got a "good return" on that trade?

We wanted pick 1, which would have allowed us to get Cotchin. But Carlton simply refused and there was nothing we could do. It demonstrates precisely how little leverage a club has when an uncontracted player wants to go and nominates a new club.

We are not mugs when it comes to trading and if brown goes we will be compensated

If you say so.

How exactly do you expect us to drive a hard bargain if we have an uncontracted player who has nominated a club? What do you think would be "compensation" for Brown at the end of next year?

I put it you that it will be significantly less than the Saints were reportedly offering this year and, on that comparison, it's unlikely to be a good return for us.

And before you start talking about sending Brown to the PSD, consider how many times that has actually happened in the past decade.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Maybe we can persuade him, particularly if it is Glass's last season, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has another year without much opportunity and then asks to be traded to the Saints.

Should Glass does retire, if all Brown wants is more game time and does not care about moving back to Victoria, he shouldn't have any reason to leave unless we recruit another ready made KPD or he really hates being at our club.
If Brown does want to leave, we definitely won't get as good a deal as this year since he's uncontracted.

 

[Slash136]

Sure about that?

Really? A good return?

People weren't very happy at the time. And even with Kennedy and Masten coming on, it still looks like a win for the Blues.

Judd was our captain and the best midfielder in the comp. You reckon we got a "good return" on that trade?

We wanted pick 1, which would have allowed us to get Cotchin. But Carlton simply refused and there was nothing we could do. It demonstrates precisely how little leverage a club has when an uncontracted player wants to go and nominates a new club.

If you say so.

How exactly do you expect us to drive a hard bargain if we have an uncontracted player who has nominated a club? What do you think would be "compensation" for Brown at the end of next year?

I put it you that it will be significantly less than the Saints were reportedly offering this year and, on that comparison, it's unlikely to be a good return for us.

And before you start talking about sending Brown to the PSD, consider how many times that has actually happened in the past decade.

Ok,

Firstly I think Kennedy and masten for Judd is about break even. We got the best out of Judd and now we are getting the best out of those two.

Secondly even if we do get a second rounder for brown we will on trade it for someone who wants to play for us, Harry Taylor perhaps.

We are one of the top clubs in the league and we are in premiership mode. I think more players would want to come play for us than leave us.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Firstly I think Kennedy and masten for Judd is about break even. We got the best out of Judd and now we are getting the best out of those two.

But that is hindsight which, in fairness, I think is relevant but not definitive.
We wanted pick 1 for Cotchin. We were not given pick 1.
Regardless of all other trades from that point (or AFL compensations) Chris Judd was worth JK + pick. 1.
A young forward and an untried and still somewhat speculative kid for the best player of the previous 2-3 yrs.
Sure a pick no. 1 has a good opportunity to be a good good footballer.
But the chance that he'd be as good as Judd was unlikely still.
Of course, if we had have got pick 1 we would have a player who may indeed have a similar career as Judd (though perhaps without the premiership accolades).