Design Ideas for new Perth Stadium

[ozzult]

Anyone saying our new stadium needs to be more than 60k is a twit. There is NOTHING worse than a half full stadium, unless you like atmosphere-less environments, than thats fine.

Melbourne is more than double the population of Perth, is the apparent mecca of football, and have a look at how often a 55k seat stadium in that city gets sold out.

60k in Perth is the absolute maximum... anything higher, and you're just building a dormant igloo.


...and for what its worth, no roof. Also, as far as the design goes, it doesn't matter what they come up with, because no matter what, the majority of nuffys in Perth will say it looks crap, and isn't worth the money.

 

[West123]

^ Except for the fact that the current size is capping Eagles membership.

 

[Luigi742]

Anyone saying our new stadium needs to be more than 60k is a twit. There is NOTHING worse than a half full stadium, unless you like atmosphere-less environments, than thats fine.

Melbourne is more than double the population of Perth, is the apparent mecca of football, and have a look at how often a 55k seat stadium in that city gets sold out.

60k in Perth is the absolute maximum... anything higher, and you're just building a dormant igloo.


...and for what its worth, no roof. Also, as far as the design goes, it doesn't matter what they come up with, because no matter what, the majority of nuffys in Perth will say it looks crap, and isn't worth the money.

There are 9 teams in Melbourne. There is two in Perth. Your logic is flawed.

The eagles are losing a lot of potential money, I believe that with an 80,000 seat stadium, the eagles would lead the league in memberships (heck i'd probably sign up for one)

 

[West123]

The other thing Victoria counts is smaller membership packages such as 3 or 5 games which are available due to the high amounts of general admission seating. While all the excess seating wouldn't be taken up with full memberships I'm sure Perth is full of people who'd be happy to snap up a smaller package deal.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Anyone saying our new stadium needs to be more than 60k is a twit. There is NOTHING worse than a half full stadium, unless you like atmosphere-less environments, than thats fine.

Melbourne is more than double the population of Perth, is the apparent mecca of football, and have a look at how often a 55k seat stadium in that city gets sold out.

60k in Perth is the absolute maximum... anything higher, and you're just building a dormant igloo.


...and for what its worth, no roof. Also, as far as the design goes, it doesn't matter what they come up with, because no matter what, the majority of nuffys in Perth will say it looks crap, and isn't worth the money.

You can tell you're a Perth boy...

If this stadium were to go up today, you'd not have a "half full" stadium every week. The Eagles could get 55,000 tickets to even a Gold Coast/GWS match. The demand is extremely high.

In fifteen years, this demand is only going to skyrocket. The population is increasing rapidly. And AFL football will always be a favoured form of entertainment.

The other thing Victoria counts is smaller membership packages such as 3 or 5 games which are available due to the high amounts of general admission seating. While all the excess seating wouldn't be taken up with full memberships I'm sure Perth is full of people who'd be happy to snap up a smaller package deal.

Exactly this.

At Subiaco, it's basically impossible to get decent tickets for two.There are only a handful of single seats on the wing. If you're a non-member going with a mate, you'll have to sit in the cheersquad section *cringe* or with the away fans. Is this going to entice people to go to the footy? The ability to go to the footy with four or five mates is very alluring. For the majority, the footy is a social experience. That experience is available in Melbourne. Yet utterly unattainable in Perth. And remember, this is from the perspective of a Freo fan. If West Coast have more members, which they do, that's not going to be any easier, is it?

So let's use a hypothetical situation:

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the population of Perth increased by 42,800 between June 2010 and June 2011. Let's say this growth continues consistently. So what's the population growth in Perth in fifteen years time? 642,000. That's over half a million people being added to a city (currently) of 1.75 million.

Let's look at the ABS again.

"In the year to June 2011, Perth SD had the state's largest population growth, increasing by 42,800 people (or 2.5%) to reach 1.74 million. This SD accounted for just over three-quarters (77%) of WA's growth between June 2010 and June 2011 and represented just under three-quarters (74%) of the state's population at June 2011. Perth SD also had the fastest growth rate of all the capital cities in Australia."

Let's generalise and say that the Fremantle Dockers Football Club and the West Coast Eagles football club benefit from this. In 2011, Freo averaged 30,108 at their home games; WCE 35,925. Increase these figured by 2.5 over fifteen years.

2.5% of Freo's average is 752.7. Grow this fifteen times, add on the 2011 average attendance, and your result? 41,398.5. As for the Eagles. Their 2.5% is 898.1. Do the maths again, and 49,396.5.

So, utilising these figures, there's an obvious conclusion: Patersons Stadium is far too small. Not only this, but 60,000 is short sighted. Double these numbers, and you're looking at 90-100,000 fans possibly attending games. Although getting 100,000 to a football match against GWS seems insane, who knows? Even if this growth slowed, and, we were left with 70,000 averages... well.. there's 10,000 potential fans unable to go to the football.

Again, these are the numbers of mere attendances. You need to remember that the demand is much higher. More people would go if they could. But both clubs have capped attendances. Memberships at Fremantle exclude a large portion of non-membership holding fans. This means only a portion of supporters can get in. But, other externalities stop potential buyers from attending: Things such as the unavailability of two, three, or four seats together, or things like that. As for West Coast, they face a predicament even worse. Their membership numbers do not display the potential membership base. Their members are halted by the capacity of Patersons Stadium.

So, sure. Build a 60,000 seat stadium. But in 30 years time, it'll be too small.



[Someone might want to double check these figures, as maths isn't my thing. But I'm pretty certain these numbers are correct. They don't look unfathomable]

 

[Admiral Byng]

In 25-30 years 60,000 will be too small, but I think it will be adequate till then. Stadiums get a major rebuild/revamp every 15-20 years or so anyway. I think the 60,000 with the option of upgrading to 70-75,000 later on will be more than good enough. Don't forget that the bigger you build it the more the upkeep and running costs will be, so some compromise is needed there.

 

[wedgetail]

Anyone saying our new stadium needs to be more than 60k is a twit. There is NOTHING worse than a half full stadium, unless you like atmosphere-less environments, than thats fine.

Melbourne is more than double the population of Perth, is the apparent mecca of football, and have a look at how often a 55k seat stadium in that city gets sold out.

I fail to see your angle here. you do realise that WC have 55k members right now?

And 10k are 'in the wings' which means hardcore enough to spend 100 bucks a year indefinately on the off chance that sometime in about a decade enough members will have died off to allow them an option on 2 shitty seats at the back of the three tier?

...and god knows how many who dont bother because waiting 10 years is just rediculous. (lots and lots - dont under estimate this category)

60k is not only too small... it will mean essentially no change from where we are at with subi. It will sell out immediately and the next 5k will think ok, now the queue is shorter... maybe i will jump on the wait list which will grow and churn and bubble away exactly like it does now.

But I guess that is why WC recommended / requested 60k at the taskforce stakeholder meetings. WC know damn well this is what will happen and its what they want. At no point should supply exceed demand by building a stadium big enough to allow spare / GA seats. Then people might think its ok to not renew thier memberships one year.... can you imagine?

 

[Rob]

Let's generalise and say that the Fremantle Dockers Football Club and the West Coast Eagles football club benefit from this. In 2011, Freo averaged 30,108 at their home games; WCE 35,925. Increase these figured by 2.5 over fifteen years.

That's the average crowds both home and away. Our average home crowd was 34,394, WCE 37,436. 2010 it was 36,572 and 34,931 respectively. Obviously a lot of sellouts in those figures as well so they significantly underrate the demand for tickets at the moment.

 

[HPKS]

You can tell you're a Perth boy...

If this stadium were to go up today, you'd not have a "half full" stadium every week. The Eagles could get 55,000 tickets to even a Gold Coast/GWS match. The demand is extremely high.

In fifteen years, this demand is only going to skyrocket. The population is increasing rapidly. And AFL football will always be a favoured form of entertainment.


Exactly this.

At Subiaco, it's basically impossible to get decent tickets for two.There are only a handful of single seats on the wing. If you're a non-member going with a mate, you'll have to sit in the cheersquad section *cringe* or with the away fans. Is this going to entice people to go to the footy? The ability to go to the footy with four or five mates is very alluring. For the majority, the footy is a social experience. That experience is available in Melbourne. Yet utterly unattainable in Perth. And remember, this is from the perspective of a Freo fan. If West Coast have more members, which they do, that's not going to be any easier, is it?

So let's use a hypothetical situation:

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, the population of Perth increased by 42,800 between June 2010 and June 2011. Let's say this growth continues consistently. So what's the population growth in Perth in fifteen years time? 642,000. That's over half a million people being added to a city (currently) of 1.75 million.

Let's look at the ABS again.

"In the year to June 2011, Perth SD had the state's largest population growth, increasing by 42,800 people (or 2.5%) to reach 1.74 million. This SD accounted for just over three-quarters (77%) of WA's growth between June 2010 and June 2011 and represented just under three-quarters (74%) of the state's population at June 2011. Perth SD also had the fastest growth rate of all the capital cities in Australia."

Let's generalise and say that the Fremantle Dockers Football Club and the West Coast Eagles football club benefit from this. In 2011, Freo averaged 30,108 at their home games; WCE 35,925. Increase these figured by 2.5 over fifteen years.

2.5% of Freo's average is 752.7. Grow this fifteen times, add on the 2011 average attendance, and your result? 41,398.5. As for the Eagles. Their 2.5% is 898.1. Do the maths again, and 49,396.5.

So, utilising these figures, there's an obvious conclusion: Patersons Stadium is far too small. Not only this, but 60,000 is short sighted. Double these numbers, and you're looking at 90-100,000 fans possibly attending games. Although getting 100,000 to a football match against GWS seems insane, who knows? Even if this growth slowed, and, we were left with 70,000 averages... well.. there's 10,000 potential fans unable to go to the football.

Again, these are the numbers of mere attendances. You need to remember that the demand is much higher. More people would go if they could. But both clubs have capped attendances. Memberships at Fremantle exclude a large portion of non-membership holding fans. This means only a portion of supporters can get in. But, other externalities stop potential buyers from attending: Things such as the unavailability of two, three, or four seats together, or things like that. As for West Coast, they face a predicament even worse. Their membership numbers do not display the potential membership base. Their members are halted by the capacity of Patersons Stadium.

So, sure. Build a 60,000 seat stadium. But in 30 years time, it'll be too small.



[Someone might want to double check these figures, as maths isn't my thing. But I'm pretty certain these numbers are correct. They don't look unfathomable]

I have lived in perth since 2006 and never seen a game as ive found getting a seat to a game for a few people so damn hard. I lived in melbourne for a number of years a miss going to a regular game. It has to be asked how many potential footy fans will be lost to league when a side starts up over hear. I think we might find a few just because of access to ticketing. Just build the damn thing please. Got here in 06 adn they were talking about it back then, what a joke.

 

[Luigi742]

I have lived in perth since 2006 and never seen a game as ive found getting a seat to a game for a few people so damn hard. I lived in melbourne for a number of years a miss going to a regular game. It has to be asked how many potential footy fans will be lost to league when a side starts up over hear. I think we might find a few just because of access to ticketing. Just build the damn thing please. Got here in 06 adn they were talking about it back then, what a joke.

Well I can tell you that footy is already losing fans to union. See plenty of people at force games in eagles/dockers gear

 

[HPKS]

Well I can tell you that footy is already losing fans to union. See plenty of people at force games in eagles/dockers gear

Dosnt surprise me a bit. Its why we need a good sized quality stadium ASAP. With the possibility of a 3rd side or run the risk of loosing a good number of supporters to rival codes. It does need to be above 60000 for the projected growth rate of WA.

 

[Kwality]

Well I can tell you that footy is already losing fans to union. See plenty of people at force games in eagles/dockers gear

Cobblers Luigi, nonsense, krap ... cut it, dice it, so much nonsense !!!

I saw Sheeds at a NRL final in Melbourne ... hello, like me, Sheeds is a sports fan, not some code ideologue, just loves sport.

Where are you coming from Lu igi, fair dinkum ...

 

[Rob]

Well I can tell you that footy is already losing fans to union. See plenty of people at force games in eagles/dockers gear

Chances are they've been dual code supporters from the start given Force crowds have dropped every year since their inception.

 

[Righteo]

I have lived in perth since 2006 and never seen a game as ive found getting a seat to a game for a few people so damn hard. I lived in melbourne for a number of years a miss going to a regular game. It has to be asked how many potential footy fans will be lost to league when a side starts up over hear. I think we might find a few just because of access to ticketing. Just build the damn thing please. Got here in 06 adn they were talking about it back then, what a joke.

You're not trying very hard then.

 

[HPKS]

You're not trying very hard then.

Tried off n on regularly for 2 adults n 3 children, just could never get us all together. Cause I don't follow either Perth side I had no interest in a thrashing so some games I wouldn't have no interest.

 

[ST8888]

Anyone saying our new stadium needs to be more than 60k is a twit. There is NOTHING worse than a half full stadium, unless you like atmosphere-less environments, than thats fine.

Melbourne is more than double the population of Perth, is the apparent mecca of football, and have a look at how often a 55k seat stadium in that city gets sold out.

60k in Perth is the absolute maximum... anything higher, and you're just building a dormant igloo.

This.

I've always been horrified by the look of deserted stadiums.

Yuck

 

[Luigi742]

Why build a new stadium if you plan to have the same ticketing nightmares that you have at subi. Build a 75-80,000 seater, trust me, you'll be getting at least 65,000 a game for eagles games, and a derby and other big games like finals and like that will easily sell out.

 

[eskabah]

I read somewhere that Paris is bidding for the 2024 Olympics, are using Stade de France, by them it will be a 26 year old stadium. If you build this one 80,000 seater it gives the option of being a possible Olympics venue if Perth eveer wants to bid.

 

[cos789]

You're not trying very hard then.

Compared to a lot of games in Melbourne it is.

It's important not to just look at capacity now and into the future but also offerring a selection of budget seating for large families that doesn't presently exist.

 

[jethro11]

I read somewhere that Paris is bidding for the 2024 Olympics, are using Stade de France, by them it will be a 26 year old stadium. If you build this one 80,000 seater it gives the option of being a possible Olympics venue if Perth eveer wants to bid.

Having recently been there, it's a horrible looking stadium. God forbid they they use it for the Olympics.

An Olympics in Perth would be come at a massive cost because unlike Sydney and Melbourne they don't have the world class stadia there already. You can't base a whole Olympics in one stadium.

Still, it's a good point though.

 

[DardySingh360]

Olympics would be great for Perth, the amount of infrastructure that would need to be built would do wonders and bring perth up to the rest of the country, no shortage of money, no reason why it couldn't have them in 2028 or something.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Not sure about Olympics.

Before he quit the ABC Glenn Mitchell used to say repeatedly that any Olympics stadium needs to have a warm-up track "within walking distance" of the main stadium. I don't think we'll ever do that.

 

[Rob]

Not sure about Olympics.

Before he quit the ABC Glenn Mitchell used to say repeatedly that any Olympics stadium needs to have a warm-up track "within walking distance" of the main stadium. I don't think we'll ever do that.

I doubt that would be a blocker, and even if it is there would be about a hundred other things that would get in the way first.

If we want major events, we'd be better off bidding for something like the World Athletics Championships, although i'm not sure the logistics of holding it in the European winter.

 

[eskabah]

Not sure about Olympics.

Before he quit the ABC Glenn Mitchell used to say repeatedly that any Olympics stadium needs to have a warm-up track "within walking distance" of the main stadium. I don't think we'll ever do that.

There is plenty of room on that peninsula for a warm up track, you could build something like the new Lakeside Stadium in Albert park, which would then double as a home for athletics in Perth. But we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.

But if Perth did want to bid for the games, even if it is in 10-15 years time, having an 80,000 (the IOC minium) seater stadium already built would certainly help.

 

[JRoo]

You're not trying very hard then.

It is almost impossible to get a seat to some games at Subiaco if you are playing the Eagles. North Melbourne had to stop selling NMFC memberships to WA NMFC supporters that provided them with a seat at the Eagles game due to reaching the number of allocated away club seats the club had been given.

Currently if any NMFC supporter wants to go to the Rd 6 game at Subi and wasn't lucky enough to get one of the WA NMFC memberships then they have to try their luck at buying tickets when they go public on the 23rd. I and 3 friends have booked to come across to Perth from Melbourne for the rd 6 game, but if we can't get tickets then we have paid for flights/hotel/car hire for nothing. I don't know any other stadium that this occurs at in Australia!