Autopsy Did we get a fair trade with Beams? (post# 341 Dayne lost his Dad)

[Saintly Viewed]

Aish be around 400k so that is 800k less.

Dogs Traded the Captain/Best Player(At the Time) and Pick 6 for Boyd. We Traded a Few 2nd Rounders for him

Pretty right.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm with TG on Sier to a degree. If final list lodgements were made immediately following the season he'd find himself demoted to the rookie list, IMO. A lot can change between now and then, but that's my current expectation come years end. It's not so much because of his low production I just can't identify a single area in his game that he improved pre-injury and at his age improvement is a must!

That being said I do believe the decision to recruit him was sound because the player I would have taken we got with our next pick in Phillips.

What Sier really needs is for us to lift our game significantly in the area of development. Currently we're bottom four in that regard for mine. In the right environment he'll blossom so I can support the decision to bring him 100% if we plan to right the wrongs in our development program.

On the Beams trade nothing has changed for me to consider it anything other than a fair deal because I'd personally give all of JDG, Crisp and Greenwood to have the snake in the grass back...

 

[Mateyman]

They might be duds in the end, but could've used those two picks and traded up into the late first round or targeted another player. We handed all that over to get what we had in Kyle Martin... A very good VFL player, and an average AFL player.

Yes it's important to give no-name draft picks a lot of time to develop but not someone who's already shown potential at AFL level and is in their third year

 

[Mateyman]

So far we're are losing that trade. When you hand over all of that for a player, you expect an immediate impact. Will end up our 'Tom Boyd' deal.

"All that"=2 second rounders. So worth about pick 20 combined. I wonder whether West Coast were happy in the end with Josh Kennedy, or whether they just gave up because he wasn't dominating in his first year at the club after giving up something good for him

 

[whiskeytown]

"All that"=2 second rounders. So worth about pick 20 combined. I wonder whether West Coast were happy in the end with Josh Kennedy, or whether they just gave up because he wasn't dominating in his first year at the club after giving up something good for him

Not sure of the logic in comparing the development of a young KPF in Josh Kennedy with Aish... KPF are slower to develop than midfielders usually. Aish was also a player who was playing SAFL football as a teen and dominating and had 30+ games of AFL under his belt before coming to the club... he should be ready made in terms of effort and ball winning ability and not on the verge of potentially being dropped for a spell in the VFL for the second time this season.

Also don't agree with your dismissing of two second round picks as amounting to little. Players like Greenwood, Varcoe and Howe have come to the club for 2nd round picks in the mid to late 20s.... those picks are an opportunity to trade for an experienced player or even in hindsight use them as part of the Treloar trade. The benefit of hindsight hey...

 

[Apex36]

I don't rate Sier.

You didn't rate Sinclair until about 2 weeks ago either.

 

[ThePhantom777]

On the Beams trade nothing has changed for me to consider it anything other than a fair deal because I'd personally give all of JDG, Crisp and Greenwood to have the snake in the grass back...

Imagine Beams, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy....

 

[PIES 4 LIFE]

Imagine Beams, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy....

It should read Imagine Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy and an injured Beams on the sidelines. Which is no different to what we got, except we are developing De Goey, Greenwood is looking good and Crisp has shown what he could do, albeit not this year.

What makes you think that Beams wouldn't still be injured if playing for us given our injury curse of the last few years.

 

[THATSGOLD]

You didn't rate Sinclair until about 2 weeks ago either.

It's not that I don't rate Sier because we've hardly seen him but it's a worry he can't get his hands on the ball for a midfielder.

 

[Markfs]

Imagine Beams, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy....

Beams, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy, Didak, Buckley, Ronnie Wearmouth, the Richardson bros.....

 

[Apex36]

It's not that I don't rate Sier because we've hardly seen him but it's a worry he can't get his hands on the ball for a midfielder.

Was picking up around 15 touches before injuring himself and looked to be slowly building.
I honestly have no expectations of him this year given the circumstances he was drafted under. Bottom age, almost no TAC experience, way behind the 8 ball in fitness. There's no possible way anyone could make an informed call on this kid until at least mid way through next year. Given our recruiters saw enough in him to make such a bold call in taking him so early last year, I'm willing to give him that extra time to find his feet before deciding if he's any good.

 

[The Dawes]

Was picking up around 15 touches before injuring himself and looked to be slowly building.
I honestly have no expectations of him this year given the circumstances he was drafted under. Bottom age, almost no TAC experience, way behind the 8 ball in fitness. There's no possible way anyone could make an informed call on this kid until at least mid way through next year. Given our recruiters saw enough in him to make such a bold call in taking him so early last year, I'm willing to give him that extra time to find his feet before deciding if he's any good.

agreed, from where he has come from this year was always going to be a steep learning curve and purely developmental - patience grasshoppers!

If he's still struggling this time next year, then we might have some concerns.

 

[DaVe86]

In relation to the question about whether we got a fair trade for Beams, the answer is No. Beams was worth a lot more than we got.

But, with the development of De Goey and Crisp, along with Greenwood, we came out of it really good...if not ahead.


In terms of the question of Brayden Sier, it's obviously way too early to make judgement.

He only played a handful of TAC Cup games, and was pretty much recruited out of the school system where he was a tad overweight and a long way off AFL level. He was bottom aged, so realistically he was taken a year ahead of time as we obviously identified some traits in him we could work with. Apparently the Doggies were also keen and may have taken him if we passed.

He came in and ran a 2km time that was incredibly off the mark.

So realistically, this year was about getting his fitness up and developing him in an elite environment.

It will be interesting to see his next pre-season and whether he is now up to speed with other players. You would hope his 2km times are now competitive and that he can begin to match it with others.

I've actually seen some really positive signs at VFL level, but they are only glimpses which are few and far between.

Next year we will judge him far harsher. For now, it's just about his development in an elite system. He really came from such a low base that this year was never going to provide us with much.

 

[TheSierBear]

This was literally the last time we saw Beams in a Collingwood jumper.



We won the trade.

 

[Apex36]

This was literally the last time we saw Beams in a Collingwood jumper.

View attachment 265421

We won the trade.

I think I mentioned that earlier in this thread. It's ironic that the knee issues that Beams is dealing with at the moment could likely be stemming from the injury he sustained playing against his current team!
***k them up, then recruit them on big money. That's the Lions way! Never change, Brisbane...

 

[TradeDraft]

In relation to the question about whether we got a fair trade for Beams, the answer is No. Beams was worth a lot more than we got.

But, with the development of De Goey and Crisp, along with Greenwood, we came out of it really good...if not ahead..

So at the Value at the Time of the Trade. We got Way Unders. What would been a Fair trade for you DaVe86?

Agree how De Goey and Crisp has come on has at least Even Up the Trade.

Plus we got Treloar a Year Later to be that Young Superstar Mid

 

[Bay Pie]

This was literally the last time we saw Beams in a Collingwood jumper.

View attachment 265421

We won the trade.

Beams has played 18 games in 2 years. I'd say we're in front at this point. 31 valuable games into JDG with another 6/7 to add to that. Crisp came top 5 in the Copeland last year, not as good this year but plenty of games. Greenwood has missed a chunk of games.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Beams wanted out.
He went out.
All, things considered,we've done as well as we could have hoped. Give the circumstances.
Overall,this one, we did OK.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Aish be around 400k so that is 800k less.

Dogs Traded the Captain/Best Player(At the Time) and Pick 6 for Boyd. We Traded a Few 2nd Rounders for him

$400K ???

The average AFL salary is $250K (salary cap of around $11 million divided by 44 players - our Cat B players Cox and Wyatt are outside the salary cap)

Some players would be getting paid more than that average of $250K (Cloke, Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom, Swan, Reid, etc, etc)

Some players would be getting paid less than that average of $250K (Wills, Philips, Maynard, Golds, Smith, etc, etc)

Would have have thought Aish would be getting paid somewhere around average?

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'm with TG on Sier to a degree. If final list lodgements were made immediately following the season he'd find himself demoted to the rookie list, IMO.

Has there been a precedent of a first year player being demoted to the rookie list?

 

[TradeDraft]

$400K ???

The average AFL salary is $250K (salary cap of around $11 million divided by 44 players - our Cat B players Cox and Wyatt are outside the salary cap)

Some players would be getting paid more than that average of $250K (Cloke, Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom, Swan, Reid, etc, etc)

Some players would be getting paid less than that average of $250K (Wills, Philips, Maynard, Golds, Smith, etc, etc)

Would have have thought Aish would be getting paid somewhere around average?

With Carlton and North also Interested in Aish. I think we had to pay Tad Overs and I remember reading somewhere the Number was around 400

 

[Horaceg]

Beams wanted out.
He went out.
All, things considered,we've done as well as we could have hoped. Give the circumstances.
Overall,this one, we did OK.

All that and the question remains would we have had the reserves to bring in Treloar if we had retained Beams? Time will hopefully prove Treloar will be better IMHO.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

All that and the question remains would we have had the reserves to bring in Treloar if we had retained Beams? Time will hopefully prove Treloar will be better IMHO.

This

 

[Kappa]

$400K ???

The average AFL salary is $250K (salary cap of around $11 million divided by 44 players - our Cat B players Cox and Wyatt are outside the salary cap)

Some players would be getting paid more than that average of $250K (Cloke, Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom, Swan, Reid, etc, etc)

Some players would be getting paid less than that average of $250K (Wills, Philips, Maynard, Golds, Smith, etc, etc)

Would have have thought Aish would be getting paid somewhere around average?

You gotta pay overs to get a player multiple clubs were chasing..

Aish will be on very good money no doubt

 

[Kirby]

Has there been a precedent of a first year player being demoted to the rookie list?

I'm pretty sure we did it with Daniel Farmer following the 2011 season.

Maybe Tobias Thoolen too? Not sure if that was after his first or second year.