Discipline at the Cats

[Turbocat]

Forwards get the rough end of it? You must've forgotten the chopping arms rule, the harsher interpretation of the in the back rule, the fact defenders technically can't rush through a behind when not under pressure, or the harsher interpretation of deliberate out of bounds.

Yeah he gets scragged, but so does every other major power forward in the comp, the problem is on here you'd think it was only Hawkins and that the umpires especially have it in for him. I certainly hardly notice it and don't think it affects the outcome of any of our games.

You're right about him sooking it up though, it doesn't help his cause. I wish he'd turn around to the midfielders once in a while and go through them for the poor delivery just popping it up constantly on his head, that'd be a sook way better directed.

seems like you agree with me...

 

[Turbocat]

Hes looking for bites.

Just exit the thread.

GO Catters

No worries Daz ... I'll dip my foot but Im aware of the undertow..

 

[BlightysCats]

seems like you agree with me...

Getting scragged doesn't immediately equate a free kick, Hawks problem is mainly that he loves to wrestle and can't jump.

 

[BlightysCats]

Hes looking for bites.

Just exit the thread.

GO Catters

Yep, if I have an opinion, or I'm involved in a debate I'm just looking for bites.

 

[Willo_]

Getting scragged doesn't immediately equate a free kick, Hawks problem is mainly that he loves to wrestle and can't jump.

I think it is more he favours wrestling over jumper (chooses not to run and jump at the ball)

 

[BlightysCats]

I think it is more he favours wrestling over jumper (chooses not to run and jump at the ball)

Would love to see him take the vertical leap test they do on draftees, he'd be pretty low on it I imagine. Just a bit overrated our Tom for mine - but that's got nothing to do with discipline.

 

[dazbroncos]

Yep, if I have an opinion, or I'm involved in a debate I'm just looking for bites.

And the day I see you have/share an opinion that encourages, supports, defends, or praises the GFC, its players and staff, my opinion of your MO will be shown cause to change. Till then........ a spade is a spade.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

I think it is more he favours wrestling over jumper (chooses not to run and jump at the ball)

Agree - and that wrestling is playing to his strength. His power and strength is that. A JPOD jumper he is not. not saying he couldn't do more if it but the high jumping Hawkins days are gone.
The issue is multi dimensional IMO.
Balls kicked high to him dont really allow much leading/jumping.
Multiple defenders blocking/scragging him dont allow him to jump.
The occasions he has jumped, he's either taken the mark, caused a spillage of been called for infringement for pushing off.

I dare say that if the delivery improved, and thats a GFC issue - potentially a BIG discipline issue - a lot of these issues would abate.

GO Catters

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I think it is more he favours wrestling over jumper (chooses not to run and jump at the ball)

Yes and no. On the once in a blue moon occasion that we move the ball quickly and he's 1v1 (that is, no one standing in the hole in front of him) then you watch the big galoot move.

When we move the ball fast he does lead. Slow and stagnant (coupled with it lobbed on his head) and he's auditioning for the WWE. Then there's the frees he should get but doesn't but that's a separate discussion.

 

[Cataholic]

Yep, if I have an opinion, or I'm involved in a debate I'm just looking for bites.

What rubs people isn't that you have an opinion - hell, everyone is entitled to that - nor the fact you participate vigorously in various debates, but the way you respond to people.

You have a strong knowledge of the game, and have much to contribute, but belittling people whilst doing so will not encourage a sensible discussion, or respectful replies.

You are very strong in your opinion of Scott and fair enough if that's your belief, but just be mindful of not bullying people with it.

Anyhow, just my 2c, and I hope you accept it with the same goodwill as it is offered. You have a lot to offer.

 

[catempire]

Yes and no. On the once in a blue moon occasion that we move the ball quickly and he's 1v1 (that is, no one standing in the hole in front of him) then you watch the big galoot move.

When we move the ball fast he does lead. Slow and stagnant (coupled with it lobbed on his head) and he's auditioning for the WWE. Then there's the frees he should get but doesn't but that's a separate discussion.

Also no point leading when our dominant play is a long kick from congestion on top of Hawkins' head.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Also no point leading when our dominant play is a long kick from congestion on top of Hawkins' head.

Yep. The 'Hawkins don't lead' diagnosis is merely a symptom of a wider problem.

 

[BlightysCats]

What rubs people isn't that you have an opinion - hell, everyone is entitled to that - nor the fact you participate vigorously in various debates, but the way you respond to people.

You have a strong knowledge of the game, and have much to contribute, but belittling people whilst doing so will not encourage a sensible discussion, or respectful replies.

You are very strong in your opinion of Scott and fair enough if that's your belief, but just be mindful of not bullying people with it.

Anyhow, just my 2c, and I hope you accept it with the same goodwill as it is offered. You have a lot to offer.

Fair enough, most of the time I don't mean to insult posters unnecessarily it's just frustration coming through in the moment. I post with passion and it does spill over especially when posters come to ridiculous conclusions based on stuff I've said, or simply say I've said something I haven't. What isn't widely recognised on here is the subtle way some posters actually like to get a reaction out of me then play the victim...

 

[nananana catman]

It's worth pointing out though, that first year when Leading Teams were brought in? That was a full 10 years ago now.

Whatever is being implemented now, I believe it's strength is waned.

It's not so much about having Leading Teams supporting us, although they were very effective to begin with, but there isn't that really high level accountability that made us so good.

 

[ATSAM]

Whatever is being implemented now, I believe it's strength is waned.

It's not so much about having Leading Teams supporting us, although they were very effective to begin with, but there isn't that really high level accountability that made us so good.

Or perhaps the players who can provide that leadership and accountability.

 

[Frappe]

Whatever is being implemented now, I believe it's strength is waned.

It's not so much about having Leading Teams supporting us, although they were very effective to begin with, but there isn't that really high level accountability that made us so good.

Agree. However, the group who first experienced Leading Teams were part of the last generation who could be told home truths. I hear it's a different story these days.

 

[Cataholic]

Fair enough, most of the time I don't mean to insult posters unnecessarily it's just frustration coming through in the moment. I post with passion and it does spill over especially when posters come to ridiculous conclusions based on stuff I've said, or simply say I've said something I haven't. What isn't widely recognised on here is the subtle way some posters actually like to get a reaction out of me then play the victim...

Well, I guess change has to start somewhere, so if you and I kick it off there's hope that it will spread throughout the board and make this place a more enjoyable, and far less antagonistic, place to exchange thoughts,opinions and ideas.

What do you say?

 

[nananana catman]

Or perhaps the players who can provide that leadership and accountability.

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. The thing with the Leading Teams mentality it is essentially about establishing core values and then 'seeing something and doing something about it' when they aren't followed. It's about caring about the things that hold a team/organisation back and willing to have hard conversations with those that need it. If we haven't got a core willing to do that then people start to get away with little things that set you back that 5%. 5% in an even comp like this means a lot. Perhaps last year it was the different between Prelim and Grand Final.

Is there someone brave enough to tell Tom Hawkins he's a bit lazy at times and to stop playing for free kicks?
Is there someone willing to tell Steve Motlop he'd be close to our best player if he tried hard enough, and as a result he's letting the team down?

Without knowing the intricacies of the group there the sorts of things that made a huge difference last time. I remember Mooney, Scarlett and Ablett were the ones in the gun. But it creates a whole culture of hard work and accountability for performance. We did have some brilliant leaders who drove this though, probably notably Harley, Ling, Chapman etc. And it was in an era that we were more talented. But not by heaps.

 

[you pick one]

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. The thing with the Leading Teams mentality it is essentially about establishing core values and then 'seeing something and doing something about it' when they aren't followed. It's about caring about the things that hold a team/organisation back and willing to have hard conversations with those that need it. If we haven't got a core willing to do that then people start to get away with little things that set you back that 5%. 5% in an even comp like this means a lot. Perhaps last year it was the different between Prelim and Grand Final.

Is there someone brave enough to tell Tom Hawkins he's a bit lazy at times and to stop playing for free kicks?
Is there someone willing to tell Steve Motlop he'd be close to our best player if he tried hard enough, and as a result he's letting the team down?

Without knowing the intricacies of the group there the sorts of things that made a huge difference last time. I remember Mooney, Scarlett and Ablett were the ones in the gun. But it creates a whole culture of hard work and accountability for performance. We did have some brilliant leaders who drove this though, probably notably Harley, Ling, Chapman etc. And it was in an era that we were more talented. But not by heaps.

Good post,and to back up the bolded look at the Saints in 2009/10 all that stood between them IMO and at lest one flag was a few players chasing Pussy excuse the pun parting on.Think Milne and Montagna,were there others most likely.

 

[Turbocat]

Getting scragged doesn't immediately equate a free kick, Hawks problem is mainly that he loves to wrestle and can't jump.

Id say a forward that is getting held , especially when the ball is not within 5 metres is a FA (that is often missed) rarely is a backman given the same patience load..hence why I say forwards get the wrong end of it. To be fair I don think its a Geelong discipline subject so to continue on it only probably draws debate away from subject.

 

[dazbroncos]

Sadie, the cleaning lady..... was humming this when it went here.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/chris-scotts-coaching-part-ii.1142401/

Go Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

Well, I guess change has to start somewhere, so if you and I kick it off there's hope that it will spread throughout the board and make this place a more enjoyable, and far less antagonistic, place to exchange thoughts,opinions and ideas.

What do you say?

I have a writing style, abrasive as it is to some I doubt I can change it. Maybe I lack discipline.

 

[Shai]

Fair enough, most of the time I don't mean to insult posters unnecessarily it's just frustration coming through in the moment. I post with passion and it does spill over especially when posters come to ridiculous conclusions based on stuff I've said, or simply say I've said something I haven't. What isn't widely recognised on here is the subtle way some posters actually like to get a reaction out of me then play the victim...

I am actually empathetic with this. Try very hard not to judge ppl but sometimes the bs gets thru and provokes.

 

[Shai]

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. The thing with the Leading Teams mentality it is essentially about establishing core values and then 'seeing something and doing something about it' when they aren't followed. It's about caring about the things that hold a team/organisation back and willing to have hard conversations with those that need it. If we haven't got a core willing to do that then people start to get away with little things that set you back that 5%. 5% in an even comp like this means a lot. Perhaps last year it was the different between Prelim and Grand Final.

Is there someone brave enough to tell Tom Hawkins he's a bit lazy at times and to stop playing for free kicks?
Is there someone willing to tell Steve Motlop he'd be close to our best player if he tried hard enough, and as a result he's letting the team down?

Without knowing the intricacies of the group there the sorts of things that made a huge difference last time. I remember Mooney, Scarlett and Ablett were the ones in the gun. But it creates a whole culture of hard work and accountability for performance. We did have some brilliant leaders who drove this though, probably notably Harley, Ling, Chapman etc. And it was in an era that we were more talented. But not by heaps.

Just my opinion of course, yet to see Hawk deliberately play for a free kick.

 

[Cataholic]

I have a writing style, abrasive as it is to some I doubt I can change it. Maybe I lack discipline.

Only need to eliminate any term or wording that belittles the person you are talking to.

That removes any attack on the person, whether imaginary or real, and maintains the substance, whether abrasive or not.

I reckon you can do it.