Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[Pleasedontfail11]

Yes they did. Threw the kitchen sink at us and got the W. The GF was a more accurate reflection of the talent gulf between the teams. Also according to Browny a few of our players were ill leading up to the QF.

The Cats were good enough to compete. They are still a chance to beat you in 2026 even if the odds are slightly against them. They showed they were good enough in 2025 as well along with clubs like Melbourne and Collingwood who best you at the Gabba. My point is that if you are slightly off on the day there are a few clubs who can take advantage in an important final. Richmond had this issue in 2018. Geelong in 2008 and Essendon in 2001 for example.

 

[Mr Meow]

its not even about how good the players Geelong and the Pies are getting,. its about whether they can do the role the coach wants well. And thats the type of player both of our teams are getting.

Fair enough, but at the end of the day you do need to find new stars as champions retire or decline. N.Daicos and his "ready made" status when drafted was a suitable example to keep Collingwood up there. Much like Dangerfield, Cameron and then Smith were for Geelong at 5 year intervals.

Then you need the same to happen with a few pick 20-60s like with Stewart, Miers and Holmes. As well as obviously picking the eyes out of the rookie draft, while finding mature plug-and-play types like Mannagh/Menegola etc.

It's possible but a lot has to go right. The drafting and development with poor picks has to be quite exceptional.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'd be furious with my club if they had a list that was regularly contending for premierships, and chose to blow it up to go full rebuild because they wanted to forgo an immediately opportunity to possibly continue contending

This rings a bell, not super recent, can't put my finger on it though.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Fair enough, but at the end of the day you do need to find new stars as champions retire or decline. N.Daicos and his "ready made" status when drafted was a suitable example to keep Collingwood up there. Much like Dangerfield, Cameron and then Smith were for Geelong at 5 year intervals.

Then you need the same to happen with a few pick 20-60s like with Stewart, Miers and Holmes. As well as obviously picking the eyes out of the rookie draft, while finding mature plug-and-play types like Mannagh/Menegola etc.

It's possible but a lot has to go right. The drafting and development with poor picks has to be quite exceptional.

The issue is players like Frampton Buller Long etc will be permanent best 22.
There’s little room for form slumps in players like Lipinski Shultz Membrey McStay can’t be covered by deprh

 

[Fadge]

Other than Cox and Mitchell who?

I mean, just this off season you can add a further two premiership players in WHE and Mihocek (who, like Stevie J. and Chapman, went to another club for a longer contract than was being offered at their original clubs).

 

[Fadge]

The issue is players like Frampton Buller Long etc will be permanent best 22.
There’s little room for form slumps in players like Lipinski Shultz Membrey McStay can’t be covered by deprh

Sounds as though you're adamant none of the 18 or so players on Collingwood's list with less than 20 games of AFL experience, including the 2025 draftees, will make it at the level.

The Pies should just cut their list to 25 players - Adam H. has spoken!

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Sounds as though you're adamant none of the 18 or so players on Collingwood's list with less than 20 games of AFL experience, including the 2025 draftees, will make it at the level.

The Pies should just cut their list to 25 players - Adam H. has spoken!

I don’t see any with long term careers to be honest. Watched a lot of their VFL games and there wasn’t any stand outs.

 

[Fadge]

Fair enough, but at the end of the day you do need to find new stars as champions retire or decline. N.Daicos and his "ready made" status when drafted was a suitable example to keep Collingwood up there. Much like Dangerfield, Cameron and then Smith were for Geelong at 5 year intervals.

Then you need the same to happen with a few pick 20-60s like with Stewart, Miers and Holmes. As well as obviously picking the eyes out of the rookie draft, while finding mature plug-and-play types like Mannagh/Menegola etc.

It's possible but a lot has to go right. The drafting and development with poor picks has to be quite exceptional.

Indeed, can't argue with anything you have said here.

It's not easy to continue to regenerate a list without regular access to the most talented kids in the draft.

That's why we've got to respect the likes of Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood who have been able to do it so well for so long.

 

[Fadge]

I don’t see any with long term careers to be honest. Watched a lot of their VFL games and there wasn’t any stand outs.

Yep, sure you did...

Including the 2025 draftees.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Yep, sure you did...

Including the 2025 draftees.

No haven’t seen more than maybe a game from each.

 

[Robertio]

Including the 2025 draftees.

Your 2025 draftees are coming from a long way back, it's a lottery on anyone take 3rd round or later but there's always a chance one of them becomes a best 23 player, it's happened before.

 

[thistimeforsure]

Has anyone actually ever entered a rebuild while having the best player in the competition in their side? Has any team say hit the bottom 6 with the best player in the competition in their side also?

Lets say if Collingwood do need to enter said rebuild are they not better off just trading Nick Daicos to Tasmania? Theyd be better off waiting til 2027 and trading Daicos for pick 5,7,11 and 2028 pick 5 and 7 in the end to begin said rebuild at that point as opposed to doing it now and grabbing mediocre picks in compromised drafts

Kinda happened at Freo end of 2016 with Nat Fyfe

Would’ve been better in hindsight to let him go to Tiges or Saints

Having a gun in a crap team just kind of elevates your finishing position to your detriment really , actually adding to the time it takes to rejig everything

You need your next wave to be taking the important roles even if it looks ugly for a while I think

 

[doppleganger]

The issue is players like Frampton Buller Long etc will be permanent best 22.
There’s little room for form slumps in players like Lipinski Shultz Membrey McStay can’t be covered by deprh

You do realise that even most top 10 draftees will not have careers as good as Schultz, McStay, Membrey and Lipinski who will probably make it to 200 games of AFL footy.

Frampton and Long both look good things to get to 100, which is again better than majority of picks outside the top20.

That so many fans are happy to accept their club turns into development clubs in the hope that they can come good in 5 years, and spend years bragging about how "talented" their u22s are continues to baffle.

 

[Fadge]

Your 2025 draftees are coming from a long way back, it's a lottery on anyone take 3rd round or later but there's always a chance one of them becomes a best 23 player, it's happened before.

The draft is a lottery, full stop.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Kinda happened at Freo end of 2016 with Nat Fyfe

Would’ve been better in hindsight to let him go to Tiges or Saints

Having a gun in a crap team just kind of elevates your finishing position to your detriment really , actually adding to the time it takes to rejig everything

You need your next wave to be taking the important roles even if it looks ugly for a while I think

How absolutely wild was 2016 for Freo. The 22 you had in Round 22 was

FB: Sheridan, Dawson, Spurr
HB: Ibbotson, Silvagni, Pearce
C: Langdon, Hill, Tucker
HF: Weller, Pavlich, De Boer
FF: Ballantyne, Yarran, Walters
R: Sandilands, Neale, Mundy
I/C: Sutcliffe, Apeness, Blakely, Weller

How the **** did that team finish bottom 3?

I mean a majorty of the season you had a midfield of

C: Langdon, Neale, Pearce
R: Sandilands, Mundy, Hill

With Walters, De Boer, Mzungu, Blakely, Weller running through it.....

The coaching was the issue

 

[Mynamesinuse]

You do realise that even most top 10 draftees will not have careers as good as Schultz, McStay, Membrey and Lipinski who will probably make it to 200 games of AFL footy.

Frampton and Long both look good things to get to 100, which is again better than majority of picks outside the top20.

That so many fans are happy to accept their club turns into development clubs in the hope that they can come good in 5 years, and spend years bragging about how "talented" their u22s are continues to baffle.

No one cares where they were drafted.
If they’re not up to it it’s irrelevant

 

[ShereKhan]

I love, love, love this narrative.

Bont doesn't poll as many votes because he's in a star studded team that has finished 9th, 6th, 9th over the last 3 years.

Daicos polls heaps of votes because he's the only elite midfielder in a team that has finished 1st, 9th and 4th over the last 3 years.

Nope… star studded ‘midfield’. You know … midfielders get 90% of Brownlow votes, so if your team has multiple vote getting midfielders the votes get shared around… it’s not rocket science.

Dogs defence is dog sh*te. Many believe the narrative they have a flag capable list as they ignore their horrible defence . Until such time as they improve their defence they’ll be nowhere near it.

 

[ShereKhan]

Surprised you extended it to top2.

Can't get much more hotly contested than the last 10 minutes of a close GF.

Thankfully Daicos beat Neale and Dunkley (a dud according to your moronic attempt to discredit Neale) to the 1st possession at the centre bounce, got it to Pendles, then immediately followed up and got the goal assist to DeGoey.

Yeah… and in the 2020PF Richmond kicked 2 x goals for the quarter .. both by Lambert. Looks like he’s on a pedestal with Naicos then, yeah?

Fancy having to pinpoint a single action from his 7 x finals as some sort of ‘gotcha’ that he’s the GOAT… bahaha.

 

[doppleganger]

Fancy having to pinpoint a single action from his 7 x finals as some sort of ‘gotcha’ that he’s the GOAT… bahaha.

Nobody has said he is the GOAT...yet

First four seasons done, he is tracking ahead of all contemporaries and already acknowledged as having league best seasons by coaches and players.

But a sad richmond supporter wastes their time trying to be critical of a 20yr old not being as a physical beast yet....bahaha

 

[Worm4]

Nobody has said he is the GOAT...yet

Fadge has.

 

[doppleganger]

Fadge has.

He is saying he is heading that way...after 4 seasons no modern day player matches him.

Need to go back to guys like Reynolds and Bunton etc for a player to have a better first four seasons.

But it doesn't stop morons from comparing him to players who have already completed full careers
or sad Tiger tragics trying to highlight he only avg the 5th most contested possessions in his 3rd season and only had a player ratings avg of 15.4 in his second season.

 

[ShereKhan]

Geelong's youth actually was quite poor 6 or 7 years ago.

And they had an opportunity to go to the draft with THREE first round draft picks and "rebuild".

They instead traded THREE first round picks for a mature player, and on top of that also traded for Higgins (a 30+ player) and added I.Smith as a FA to become even OLDER.

But since then, they won a flag and are still top 4 whilst retiring clubs legends like Selwood and Hawkins.

You don't need to be shit and accumulate early draft picks to rebuild your list. And the majority of clubs that do decided to go that route - Carlton, North, Essendon, Freo, GC - have nothing to show for it except a decade of being shit.

People make the mistake of seeing what Geelong have done and don’t seem to acknowledge they are the absolute exception, not the rule.

They also got the best player in the competition end of 2015 when they looked like falling away. Then end of 2020 again got the best player (close to) in the comp. Then end of 2024 got one of the best young mids in the comp capable of getting 30 x Brownlow votes.

Cameron and Smith remain at their peak, and Danger is captain and still
very influential (BOG in a PF).

So the Pies have gotten Perryman, Schulz, Hill, Houston, McStay etc.. … it’s absolute chalk and cheese to the Cats recruits.

The Pies have been contending due to a large core of quality players who’ve been able to retain excellent form well into their 30’s… it won’t go on forever.

You only have to select a ‘best-23’ Pies team using players under 30yo at start of 2026 season to realise how dire their future is based on their current list. If they get a couple of Ben King or Butters types as free agents it will help to remain competitive….. but who knows?

 

[ShereKhan]

He is saying he is heading that way...after 4 seasons no modern day player matches him.

Need to go back to guys like Reynolds and Bunton etc for a player to have a better first four seasons.

But it doesn't stop morons from comparing him to players who have already completed full careers
or sad Tiger tragics trying to highlight he only avg the 5th most contested possessions in his 3rd season and only had a player ratings avg of 15.4 in his second season.

Pie fans need to face a pretty straight forward reality. Naicos will never be a genuine GOAT contender, because he doesn’t have the attributes which will forever be regarded as key components of being GOAT.

1. Kicking goals - or if a mid a goal per game or thereabouts.
2. Winning contests in the air and/or on the ground.

Skilton was clearly a freak… never mentioned in GOAT discussions. The same as Robert Harvey, Diesel, Reynolds, Neale, Pendles, Ian Stewart and so on ….

Even KB who played 403 games, kicked 778 goals, won 5 flags, won 5 x B&F’s with 3 in flag years, was an amazing finals player, won a Norm Smith, kicked 21 goals in a final series etc…. is never mentioned in GOAT discussions.

Naicos will never have a record to match KB’s… he’ll kick 250 goals if he’s lucky … KB kicked 778!. He won’t play in 5 flags. He won’t have a finals record to match KB’s and so on …

Prolific mids who get a lot of the ball but don’t kick that many goals just aren’t in GOAT discussions … never have been and that’s not going to change. The closest is GAJ, but he kicked 1+ goals per game.

If you throw a ball into a dozen superstar players, either on the ground or in the air and see who brings it back, you could do it 1,000 times and Naicos is never bringing it back. He’s just not big or powerful enough to get possession of the ball…. doesn’t mean he’s not a star player … it just means he’ll never be in GOAT discussions.

 

[Mynamesinuse]

Pie fans need to face a pretty straight forward reality. Naicos will never be a genuine GOAT contender, because he doesn’t have the attributes which will forever be regarded as key components of being GOAT.

1. Kicking goals - or if a mid a goal per game or thereabouts.
2. Winning contests in the air and/or on the ground.

Skilton was clearly a freak… never mentioned in GOAT discussions. The same as Robert Harvey, Diesel, Reynolds, Neale, Pendles, Ian Stewart and so on ….

Even KB who played 403 games, kicked 778 goals, won 5 flags, won 5 x B&F’s with 3 in flag years, was an amazing finals player, won a Norm Smith, kicked 21 goals in a final series etc…. is never mentioned in GOAT discussions.

Naicos will never have a record to match KB’s… he’ll kick 250 goals if he’s lucky … KB kicked 778!. He won’t play in 5 flags. He won’t have a finals record to match KB’s and so on …

Prolific mids who get a lot of the ball but don’t kick that many goals just aren’t in GOAT discussions … never have been and that’s not going to change. The closest is GAJ, but he kicked 1+ goals per game.

If you throw a ball into a dozen superstar players, either on the ground or in the air and see who brings it back, you could do it 1,000 times and Naicos is never bringing it back. He’s just not big or powerful enough to get possession of the ball…. doesn’t mean he’s not a star player … it just means he’ll never be in GOAT discussions.

Agree with all of that. That’s why I’d take NWM going forward over Daicos. His aerial work is far superior

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Nope… star studded ‘midfield’. You know … midfielders get 90% of Brownlow votes, so if your team has multiple vote getting midfielders the votes get shared around… it’s not rocket science.

Dogs defence is dog sh*te. Many believe the narrative they have a flag capable list as they ignore their horrible defence . Until such time as they improve their defence they’ll be nowhere near it.

The votes go to the three best players on the ground

One of those is usually Daics, comfortably more often than anyone in history, that's why he's tracking towards GOAT status

It's not rocket science