Do we need the bonus point??

[iceman]

With South Africa beating New Zealand convincingly, do we now need the bonus point in order to play in the finals??

 

[Deestroy]

Originally posted by iceman
With South Africa beating New Zealand convincingly, do we now need the bonus point in order to play in the finals??

Yes Australia have to beat South Africa and also get a bonus point in order to get into the finals.

If we beat them without getting the bonus point, we will finish on the same number of points as New Zealand. NZ will go though because they have beaten us more than we have beaten them...

 

[eagleskickass]

Yeah
It makes the n.r.r pale into insignificance, only applies if the two teams are equal in head to head.
This is the opposite to what i thought, and pretty much renders n.r.r meaningless!

 

[Deestroy]

Originally posted by eagleskickass
Yeah
It makes the n.r.r pale into insignificance, only applies if the two teams are equal in head to head.
This is the opposite to what i thought, and pretty much renders n.r.r meaningless!

Personally I think the bonus point system is crap, the N.R.R system was much better.

 

[Lethal]

yep,we need the bonus point to qualify
stupid rule if you ask me

 

[topdon]

Originally posted by Lethal
yep,we need the bonus point to qualify
stupid rule if you ask me

Amazing how y'all say its a stupid rule when your precious Australian Cricket Team is in danger of missing the finals!!

The ACB would be 'duvustated' if de Soeth Efricans and mighty Bleek Ceeps made the finals!

Choice eh bro?

 

[Santos L Helper]

Funny how the bonus point system is now crap, but when we got one to go ahead of South Africa it was fantastic.

 

[The Hippie]

There's no problem with the bonus point, Santos, it's the change to the system of tie-breaking that annoys me. Run-rates, as it had been done for years was fair.

 

[red+black]

to any idiots that are trying to defend the rules of the current triangular series, get your head read. obviously we are not happy because Australia look like they will suffer under this ridiculous system even though we will end up with the BEST net run rate.

no matter who is to be disadvantaged, it is a grossly unfair system that borders on match-fixing. towards the end of the match yesterday, it was in NZ's best interests to NOT score above 216.

Similarly if SA had have failed to get the bonus point, then it would have been in their best interest to concede a bonus point on Sunday.

Unfortunately, the ICC have decreed that this points system and the idiotic rules that go with it are to be the norm for all triangular series. Suggestions have been made on rec.sport.cricket that a team that concedes a bonus point should be penalised by losing a point.

Obviously the logical thing to do is separate teams in this order:
- most points
- highest net run rate

Quite simple really.

 

[red+black]

i should add that i harbour no grudge with the kiwis. it's like blaming a murderer because he gets a 6 year sentence. it's the system that sucks.

if the stupid system means we miss out on the finals, and that means our selectors have to show some balls by picking a decent one day team (eg. drop Mark Waugh), then it will have been worth it.

 

[Groucho]

It'll most likely all be irrelevant as the Proteas will probably beat us anyway. The pressure of HAVING to gain a bonus point will be our undoing.

 

[red+black]

Source: AAP - http://au.sports.yahoo.com/sports/20020202/aapcricket/1012600104-3624575021.html

Fleming conceded afterwards that he had told his batsmen not to score more than 216 runs once he believed victory was beyond them.

"We had to look at pure survival in the competition," he said.

"The way the bonus point structure is, probably our best opportunity was to give away the bonus point to give us our best chance of making the final."

He said the tactic was not designed as payback after Australia used go-slow tactics in the 1999 World Cup against the West indies to endanger the Black Caps chances of progressing in the tournament.

"It was nothing to do with the opposition, it was about survival," Fleming said.

Fleming also called for an overhaul of the system because it led to scenarios such as Friday night, where it was not in a team's best interests to perform well.

"It's an empty feeling, I'm extremely disappointed (we had to resort to it)," Fleming said.

 

[Lethal]

Originally posted by topdon


Amazing how y'all say its a stupid rule when your precious Australian Cricket Team is in danger of missing the finals!!

The ACB would be 'duvustated' if de Soeth Efricans and mighty Bleek Ceeps made the finals!

Choice eh bro?

im not saying its stupid because they will most likely miss out on the finals,i believe missing out on the finals will probably be the best thing to happen to the australian one day side in the lead up to the world cup

 

[Joe Mama]

I think that the Bonus Points system has worked well in the domestic one-day series, but as for the internationals, well if it wasn't for Michael Bevan, tomorrow's game wouldn't have mattered because we would have deservedly been bundled out of the tournament (which, I blame squarely at the ACB for not getting rid of some dead wood, you know who theyt are?).

To be honest with you, we don't deserve to be in the finals, and the finals will be the biggest mis-match since the christians went head to head with the lions (the kiwis are the Protea's prison bitches)

P.S
Why in the hell would you want to name a sporting team after a flower, althoughn the Protea is a pretty flower, but it's fairly uninspiring isn't it ?

 

[stoisle]

Originally posted by red+black
Source: AAP - http://au.sports.yahoo.com/sports/20020202/aapcricket/1012600104-3624575021.html

Fleming conceded afterwards that he had told his batsmen not to score more than 216 runs once he believed victory was beyond them.

"We had to look at pure survival in the competition," he said.

"The way the bonus point structure is, probably our best opportunity was to give away the bonus point to give us our best chance of making the final."

He said the tactic was not designed as payback after Australia used go-slow tactics in the 1999 World Cup against the West indies to endanger the Black Caps chances of progressing in the tournament.

"It was nothing to do with the opposition, it was about survival," Fleming said.

Fleming also called for an overhaul of the system because it led to scenarios such as Friday night, where it was not in a team's best interests to perform well.

"It's an empty feeling, I'm extremely disappointed (we had to resort to it)," Fleming said.

Isn't that match fixing?

 

[Grave Danger]

I used to umpire in a junior cricket comp where the batsmen had to retire on 30, but could come back in when all the other kids had got out, if there were any overs left. The cluey bowlers soon worked out that it was not in their interest to take wickets towards the end of the innings, or the 'good kids' would be able to bat again

 

[RogerC]

It does seem a bit crazy the way it's working out, but who would have thought that each team would have a 3-1 record over each other? And who would have thought all three teams would pick up bonus points? If Australia beat South Africa on Sunday, then picking between the three teams is going to create one sore loser no matter how you look at it.

Two bonus points gives SA the right to play in the final, as it would for Australia should they manage it. I don't see a problem with that. It's also seen a couple of games kept interesting for longer that they might have.

If you're going to blame anything, blame the head-to-head comparisons for equal teams. Net run rate has its problems (some games give a side a clear advantage, as Aus vs SA in Sydney showed - bad toss to win as it turned out), but so does the head-to-head comparison.

But as some have said, this is all a bit irrelevant. Australia have underperformed, and that's the main reason we're in this situation. To turn around and blame the system (one the teams were quite aware of when this series started) seems a bit petty and whingy.

Anyway, it could lead to an incredible Australian performance on Sunday.

 

[red+black]

Originally posted by RogerC
Australia have underperformed, and that's the main reason we're in this situation. To turn around and blame the system (one the teams were quite aware of when this series started) seems a bit petty and whingy.

Asylum seekers headed for Australia knew what the system was before they started. Hasn't stopped them whingeing has it?

So what's your point?

I would say that 99% of people did not fully know the rules for this series until recently when it became an issue. These rules have never been implemented before for international cricket, and I trust will never be implemented again. As I have said before, I bear no grudge against New Zealand, they are a great team with huge potential. But even Stephen Fleming admitted to employing the rules (ie. taking advantage of an oversight of the idiot who designed the rules) to manufacture/contrive a result.

 

[London Dave]

Not match fixing, its exactly what Oz did in the WC99 to try to get the Windies qualified for the super sixes at the expense of NZ. Short memories.

If Australia dont make the finals, its not because of the system, its because they played crap cricket, especially in the first game when they threw away a win.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by London Dave
Not match fixing, its exactly what Oz did in the WC99 to try to get the Windies qualified for the super sixes at the expense of NZ. Short memories.

If Australia dont make the finals, its not because of the system, its because they played crap cricket, especially in the first game when they threw away a win.

It is not match fixing, nor cheating, nor doing anything not within the rules and acting in your own interest.

Still, if we hear any more lip from kiwis after this about underarm deliveries, watch out!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bonus point system is fair & actually adds some more interest to one-sided games like last night. Also, if NZ play in the finals instead of the Aussies (due to matches against rather than NRR) it also probably fair, as it means the top team (SAf) get to play their team of preference (NZ - who they have a better record against).

If the Australians thrash the Proteas & gain a bonus point they will deserve to make the finals. Otherwise the Kiwis are worthy opponents, as the Aussies were cocky early (with the rotation policy), have refused to play their best team (ie. no Boof) & have played some ordinary cricket.

The selectors badly need to make some changes with the view to the 2003 world cup. interesting that the form all-rounder in the ING Cup at the moment is SA's Mike Smith (but he is obviously no chance of being selected as he lives in the wrong state).

 

[The Hippie]

Originally posted by red+black


I bear no grudge against New Zealand,

Isn't a grudge a place Tony Greig poarks his coar??

 

[stoisle]

Originally posted by London Dave
Not match fixing, its exactly what Oz did in the WC99 to try to get the Windies qualified for the super sixes at the expense of NZ. Short memories.

If Australia dont make the finals, its not because of the system, its because they played crap cricket, especially in the first game when they threw away a win.

Big difference is that we Won and they lost.

But I think you have just pointed out a possitive for the bonus point. If the Bonus point was around during the World Cup then instead of going slow, we would have got the total as quickly as possible to gain a bonus point.

 

[Goldenblue]

It's simple....Australia wont make the finals, they dont deserve to be there. They decided to stick to the old boys school when there were others that deserved to be in the side.

The Aussies have no one but to blame themselves for their poor performances this season...

Bonus system or not, it's their own fault.....

Simple