Analysis Does Derek Get a Pass Mark?

[AmellyPies]

It would be foolhardy to write off Dekka given that he has built a premiership list before.
He is top4 in recruiting.
I will cut TG some slack as it is no need to sit on your laurels and award Hine a job for life.( e.g Adrian Dodoro at Essendon)

My only gripe is the 2012 draft:
Pic 18- Grundy(fell in our lap)
Pic 19- Kennedy(spud of the highest order)
Pic 20- Broomhead(still speculative though skillfull)
Pic 38 - Ramsey(like Kennedy a midget)
Perhaps Hine and Rendell over cooked the stew that year?

I can't criticise much else.
Drafting is such a hit and miss science.

Get off the grass.

 

[mike123]

It would be foolhardy to write off Dekka given that he has built a premiership list before.
He is top4 in recruiting.
I will cut TG some slack as it is no need to sit on your laurels and award Hine a job for life.( e.g Adrian Dodoro at Essendon)

My only gripe is the 2012 draft:
Pic 18- Grundy(fell in our lap)
Pic 19- Kennedy(spud of the highest order)
Pic 20- Broomhead(still speculative though skillfull)
Pic 38 - Ramsey(like Kennedy a midget)
Perhaps Hine and Rendell over cooked the stew that year?

I can't criticise much else.
Drafting is such a hit and miss science.

There's nothing wrong with short people.

 

[Knightmare]

Derek just through his trade week activities earned a pass mark. Getting Treloar, Howe and Aish in the one offseason is pretty great.

As for the draft, hindsight will tell us whether we've drafted well.

The Tom Phillips selection I felt was a strong selection and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he did a Langdon from a late selection and became a regular this year, probably on a wing or forward flank. Sier with time and work has the attributes but he is some way off for the time being based on his currently poor numbers, but the same could have been said of Patrick Cripps in his first year in the AFL system, so with Sier a similar, albeit less extremely late bloomer maybe he also experiences that similar late development, or so we can only hope. Crocker is an ok forward and maybe could be a component to the front half if Fasolo, Broomhead and others don't work out. But other than Phillips my enthusiasm isn't so high with this group. Though like last year I'd love to be wrong and have our guys perform well beyond my projections.

 

[Knightmare]

Regarding indigenous players there weren't any I was super keen on with any of our selections this year. The highly rated ones were taken before our first selection came up in Milera, Ah Chee, Rioli and Gresham.

After that group I didn't have another indigenous footballer rated inside my top 50 and presumably neither did Derek. Yestin Eades I had inside my top 60 if I'm to extend out to my top 60. And his pace and ability to take on the game is on a best in draft level. But with the inconsistency of his skills, with our skills as a club already lower than is ideal I'm not going to hate on the club for not selecting him though I would personally take him over Rupert Wills and slightly ahead of Crocker. But as per my Knightsight v Hinesight v Hindsight thread I had others ahead of Eades with those final selections.

The club made a good move for Varcoe last year and a lot of our other previous indigenous players just haven't worked out primarily due to poor talent identification in those individual cases. So I'm not going to make any statements along the lines of the club are intentionally excluding the indigenous population as a broader group as a part of our recruiting strategy. As with any team we could certainly have more indigenous talents, but at the end of the day you fill you list with the best footballers and bring in the hungriest guys, and our list as presently constructed is a result of this.

One slight consideration going into trade week was said to be Curtly Hampton but at the end of the day we had the opportunity to add better footballers in Treloar, Howe and Aish and Hampton I'm assuming preferred moving to Adelaide anyway. So the ratio is more just the way it is, rather than what the club intend it to be.

 

[MISFITS]

Hmmm - not sure if you're fishing or noted
4) Ramsey: 183cm
Isn't short and his speed lets him get to many contests, is brave and throws himself at it -- if things go to plan, he'll be great off the last line as a rebounding shut-down defender. Personally, think he was the best choice
It is a subjective argument.
No recruiter gets them all right!]
I don't deputed some of your points.
I too live to be proven wrong.
Ramsey has been in the system for quite a while now.
He currently sits behind.
Maynard. Marsh. Toovey & Oxley in the defender role.
Who would I prefer.
On talent Stewart.
At the time we needed tall forward options over small defenders.

 

[Somebody]

Closing ? Statements like 'cultural disadvantaged' are hardly part of an closing argument .
Undoubtedly some will find that not being able to respond to you is also not fair. And the circus could start again. Or you can choose to stop as the mod asked us to.

Sounds like you are trying to restart the "circus" - even as you claim to not want to.

 

[mike123]

I don't deputed some of your points.
I too live to be proven wrong.
Ramsey has been in the system for quite a while now.
He currently sits behind.
Maynard. Marsh. Toovey & Oxley in the defender role.
Who would I prefer.
On talent Stewart.
At the time we needed tall forward options over small defenders.

He was getting games ahead of Marsh and Maynard and was only out of the side due to injury, next year we'll have a better idea of the pecking order IMO.

 

[AmellyPies]

Stewart isn't a key forward. He's your Jesse White, he plays like him too. Everyone rates because he was tall...

I'd love to bet that he won't be on GWS's list in the next 2 years.

 

[MISFITS]

I

He was getting games ahead of Marsh and Maynard and was only out of the side due to injury, next year we'll have a better idea of the pecking order IMO.

I like your optimism.
Pack on 6 kilos and get jnjury free Ramsey.
For me the signs are not great but he was a late pic anyway.

 

[popin]

He was getting games ahead of Marsh and Maynard and was only out of the side due to injury, next year we'll have a better idea of the pecking order IMO.

I

I like your optimism.
Pack on 6 kilos and get jnjury free Ramsey.
For me the signs are not great but he was a late pic anyway.

What signs???
Collingwood's Darcy Moore, Jordan De Goey, Jackson Ramsay sign ...
m.theage.com.au › afl › afl-news › collin...
Mobile-friendly - May 14, 2015 - Collingwood has extended the contracts of three of the club's promising young players, with Darcy Moore, Jordan De Goey and Jackson Ramsay agreeing tonew ...

 

[35Daicos]

Regarding indigenous players there weren't any I was super keen on with any of our selections this year. The highly rated ones were taken before our first selection came up in Milera, Ah Chee, Rioli and Gresham.

After that group I didn't have another indigenous footballer rated inside my top 50 and presumably neither did Derek. Yestin Eades I had inside my top 60 if I'm to extend out to my top 60. And his pace and ability to take on the game is on a best in draft level. But with the inconsistency of his skills, with our skills as a club already lower than is ideal I'm not going to hate on the club for not selecting him though I would personally take him over Rupert Wills and slightly ahead of Crocker. But as per my Knightsight v Hinesight v Hindsight thread I had others ahead of Eades with those final selections.

Knightmare, as far as I know Kieran Lovell and Aidyn Johnson are indigenous. I haven't checked your ratings lately, but given that they were rather well regarded I'd have thought you'd have had them in your top 50.

Lovell was obviously gone by the time our first pick came along, Johnson was still available.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, as far as I know Kieran Lovell and Aidyn Johnson are indigenous. I haven't checked your ratings lately, but given that they were rather well regarded I'd have thought you'd have had them in your top 50.

Lovell was obviously gone by the time our first pick came along, Johnson was still available.

Lovell isn't indigenous that I'm aware. You may be thinking about Jade Gresham who is indigenous and is another high production sub 180cm mid.

A.Johnson is indigenous but wasn't inside my top 50. Has pace but was mostly hurt and production was limited when he has been healthy. Has his fans though. I looked at him overall as more a rookie selection and Collingwood while rumoured to have liked him would have had him behind Sier and Phillips who were from all reports draft priorities and among our more highly rated players in this draft.

 

[35Daicos]

Lovell isn't indigenous that I'm aware. You may be thinking about Jade Gresham who is indigenous and is another high production sub 180cm mid.

This list has been updated to include the newly drafted players and Lovell is named:-

http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=790

They do make a mistake or two (e.g. Murray Newman is no longer on an AFL list, Hampton has moved to Adelaide, Lewis Jetta to West Coast), but it should be correct in Lovell's case. I read at the time he was drafted that he was related to Andy Lovell (who is indigenous) so I thought it likely that he was too.

 

[Knightmare]

This list has been updated to include the newly drafted players and Lovell is named:-

http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=790

They do make a mistake or two (e.g. Murray Newman is no longer on an AFL list, Hampton has moved to Adelaide, Lewis Jetta to West Coast), but it should be correct in Lovell's case. I read at the time he was drafted that he was related to Andy Lovell (who is indigenous) so I thought it likely that he was too.

Wasn't aware with Lovell. Interesting.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Very subjective given their careers have been very similar thus far. The only thing Hannebery has over Beams in terms of career accolades is a second AA selection, which Beams would certainly have received this year if he hadn't missed the last two months of the season injured.

You also forgot that Hannebury has a defensive side to his game and also doesn't go missing in finals. They are both pretty significant attributes imo.

 

[Apex36]

You also forgot that Hannebury has a defensive side to his game and also doesn't go missing in finals. They are both pretty significant attributes imo.

Beams was a second year player in 2010, injured in 2011, and played very well during the 2012 finals series from memory. I don't buy into the myth that he goes missing in finals, but I'll concede he's not someone who thrives on the big stage like Sidebottom.

Both Hannebury and Beams have flaws in their games, but both are elite mids and are in the same conversation in terms of their playing careers. I'm not convinced that either is significantly better than the other.

 

[Kappa]

Beams was a second year player in 2010, injured in 2011, and played very well during the 2012 finals series from memory. I don't buy into the myth that he goes missing in finals, but I'll concede he's not someone who thrives on the big stage like Sidebottom.

Both Hannebury and Beams have flaws in their games, but both are elite mids and are in the same conversation in terms of their playing careers. I'm not convinced that either is significantly better than the other.

Hannebery * is definitely a better pure midfielder than Beams. Beams often turns the ball over and his defensive side is very poor.

However Beams is very dangerous pushing up forward and slotting a goal from 50 which makes it close, Hannebery the better player though.

 

[sirlothie]

Hannebery * is definitely a better pure midfielder than Beams. Beams often turns the ball over and his defensive side is very poor.

However Beams is very dangerous pushing up forward and slotting a goal from 50 which makes it close, Hannebery the better player though.

I would have thought Beams gets more of the ball too... he is a prolific ball winner.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Beams was a second year player in 2010, injured in 2011, and played very well during the 2012 finals series from memory. I don't buy into the myth that he goes missing in finals, but I'll concede he's not someone who thrives on the big stage like Sidebottom.

Both Hannebury and Beams have flaws in their games, but both are elite mids and are in the same conversation in terms of their playing careers. I'm not convinced that either is significantly better than the other.

You see by justifying Beams' indifferent finals form you are still neglecting the other half of the point. That is Hannebury's excellent record in big matches - by all rights he should be a norm-smith medalist imo.

It is a huge point of difference between the two players (perhaps not as big now that Beams is playing for a club that does not play in big games).

 

[mike123]

I

I like your optimism.
Pack on 6 kilos and get jnjury free Ramsey.
For me the signs are not great but he was a late pic anyway.

TBH I'd have Maynard and Marsh ahead of Ramsey, I was just pointing out that he was getting games ahead of them. I've found the club rates players differently then big footy posters so I think we'll see where fits in the pecking order more clearly next year

 

[Schraderbrau]

I would have thought Beams gets more of the ball too... he is a prolific ball winner.

Last seasons Hannebery averaged 30 and Beams 28. Hannebury is a better kick and leads Beams in pretty much every significant statistic as far as I can see. Additionally he is a year younger, is a dual all-Australian (better than Beams) and has a reputation for playing well when it matters.

Also judging from what I've seen from both of them playing, Hannebury is a player much more motivated by team success rather than individual. Certainly at Collingwood there were questions over his defensive abilities. Hannebury has also chosen a hefty pay cut to stay at Sydney and earn more team success. He would be fielding just as, if not more, attractive offers to return to Melbourne.

 

[Schraderbrau]

TBH I'd have Maynard and Marsh ahead of Ramsey, I was just pointing out that he was getting games ahead of them. I've found the club rates players differently then big footy posters so I think we'll see where fits in the pecking order more clearly next year

+1, although they are all different enough positionally that I think they can play together. I would prefer us to get rid of Toovey and Goldsack than see Ramsay, Maynard or Marsh playing in the seconds.

 

[Kappa]

I would have thought Beams gets more of the ball too... he is a prolific ball winner.

Hannebery was the 4th highest possession getter in the AFL averaging 30 in 2015.

 

[mike123]

Last seasons Hannebery averaged 30 and Beams 28. Hannebury is a better kick and leads Beams in pretty much every significant statistic as far as I can see. Additionally he is a year younger, is a dual all-Australian (better than Beams) and has a reputation for playing well when it matters.

Also judging from what I've seen from both of them playing, Hannebury is a player much more motivated by team success rather than individual. Certainly at Collingwood there were questions over his defensive abilities. Hannebury has also chosen a hefty pay cut to stay at Sydney and earn more team success. He would be fielding just as, if not more, attractive offers to return to Melbourne.

Not sure about that, Swans supporters often complain about his poor kicking.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Hannebery would've been very handy on the 2011 GF day. Had Dekka taken him.