Does your interest in the AFL wane when the WC is on?

[Hawthorn United]

This may come as some shock to you, but "the AFL" and "fans" are not one and the same.

Equally amazingly, I was aware that the occasional Aussie Rules game has been staged overseas.

But finding some lurid promo jpeg and dropping it into a post is such a compelling argument, isn't it? (Are you in senior school yet?)

The AFL is a hugely rich sporting league. SA govt and Chinese bigwigs get talking about trade opportunities; they decide it would be advantageous all round to stage some games in China.

And that "proves" that Aussie Rules fans really, really care what the rest of the world thinks of our great sport. OK.

That's some quality mental gymnastics.

Selling a Home & Away game overseas != Fans don't care about how overseas people view our game.

I'm also sure those that work in the AFL industry are also fans of the sport. Not one and the same, not mutually exclusive, more a subset.

I'm sure the Port supporters want the people of Shanghai to embrace their team and the sport.

But let's assume you are correct, and we can bring it back to just trying to expand into Qld and NSW. Same deal there. Rugby and League fans would also be rusted onto their respective codes, and the AFL are trying to win them over.

 

[NoobPie]

That's some quality mental gymnastics.

Selling a Home & Away game overseas != Fans don't care about how overseas people view our game.

I'm also sure those that work in the AFL industry are also fans of the sport. Not one and the same, not mutually exclusive, more a subset.

I'm sure the Port supporters want the people of Shanghai to embrace their team and the sport.

But let's assume you are correct, and we can bring it back to just trying to expand into Qld and NSW. Same deal there. Rugby and League fans would also be rusted onto their respective codes, and the AFL are trying to win them over.

What on earth are you on about?

 

[Mr--ShinBoner--#11]

What makes you so certain either of them wanted to be there?

Wow, one PR photo as evidence of your case.

Who are those two, BTW?

Would you like a more recent example?

Every single time some kind of international star is in town, someone obviously cares enough about the relevance of AFL to ram a Sherrin and/or a guernsey down their throat. No way those people are fans of the game though, right?

 

[Leeda]

Er no cos usually bedtime comes right nigh on the pontificating episode b4 the game.
Then when I get the result usually sun up its all over and can't do nuffink about it...
Like the WC as an event but not till the semi finals if truth be told.

 

[NoobPie]

Would you like a more recent example?
View attachment 518071
Every single time some kind of international star is in town, someone obviously cares enough about the relevance of AFL to ram a Sherrin and/or a guernsey down their throat. No way those people are fans of the game though, right?

Yeah you've sold me now

I went to the MCG on Sunday to see a promotion of the wrestling and then I had this Collingwood and Carlon game "shoved down my throat"!

Have a break dude

 

[Mr--ShinBoner--#11]

Yeah you've sold me now

I went to the MCG on Sunday to see a promotion of the wrestling and then I had this Collingwood and Carlon game "shoved down my throat"!

Have a break dude

Gladly. There's a pretty big game on in a few hours time to get geed up for .

 

[Coaster2012]

What makes you so certain either of them wanted to be there?

Wow, one PR photo as evidence of your case.

Who are those two, BTW?

You just lost all your credibility right there. Been watching soccer on and off for 40 years but don't know who that is? Now I know you're just taking the piss.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You just lost all your credibility right there. Been watching soccer on and off for 40 years but don't know who that is? Now I know you're just taking the piss.

I was taking the piss with my last question but the point it made is still entirely valid. Aussie Rules is an entirely immersive world just within Australia. For its passionate followers, of whom there are millions (it's not some obscure hobby pursuit), it lacks nothing. As domestic competitions go, worldwide it's one of the biggest (third-biggest per game crowd average of any comp in the world, I believe. A lot of overseas domestic competitions would kill for the sort of national penetration we have.)

A lot of Australians who follow Aussie Rules do so because they value originality, innovation, and our unique identity.

So given that, if you love Aussie Rules, who cares who else likes it?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Would you like a more recent example?
View attachment 518071
Every single time some kind of international star is in town, someone obviously cares enough about the relevance of AFL to ram a Sherrin and/or a guernsey down their throat. No way those people are fans of the game though, right?

You seem very naive about the way PR works, but anyway...

Now who are those two?

I'll just remind you, the point of mine you're responding to is "In 40 years of following Aussie Rules I’ve honestly never met a single fan who gives a flying stuff what the rest of the world thinks of our great game, in fact quite the opposite, we’re justifiably proud of its uniqueness."

How exactly does your random jpeg disprove my experience?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That's some quality mental gymnastics.

Selling a Home & Away game overseas != Fans don't care about how overseas people view our game.

I'm also sure those that work in the AFL industry are also fans of the sport. Not one and the same, not mutually exclusive, more a subset.

I'm sure the Port supporters want the people of Shanghai to embrace their team and the sport.

But let's assume you are correct, and we can bring it back to just trying to expand into Qld and NSW. Same deal there. Rugby and League fans would also be rusted onto their respective codes, and the AFL are trying to win them over.

You're quite correct re NSW and QLD.

But that's a meaningless example, given they're already part of Australia.

Be honest. How many times have you sat down with your footy-loving mates and chewed the fat, and one of them has piped up with "You know, we're all mates, we all love Aussie Rules passionately. But doesn't it piss you off mightily how it's not hugely popular all over the world? Don't you just wish that everyone everywhere would realise how superior this game of ours is? Doesn't it just burn you up inside how the world doesn't recognise the true genius of our game?"

Said nobody, ever.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Personally I would not boast re 4 codes. Cross country bum sniffing is terrible....Union game is a shambles...and" football" aka Soccer can still become our most important code. AFL is in the doldrums toòo many teams means a diluted comp and a tinker fiddle manipulate the game that does it no favors. WC has 1 referee in the middle and works fine and yet we are going to 4...give us a break.

You’re not really responding to my point. I don’t much like any of the other codes either.

But the point is, each of the four football codes in Oz has millions of passionate supporters*. No other country on the planet enjoys that diversity of football.


*OK, in the case of Rugby, thousands of passionate supporters, but they’re very rich and powerful.

 

[John Bonney]

No quite the opposite.

 

[Rabman]

All these participants soccer boast about yet there moaning why a 39 year old wasn't being played, still relying on the same bloke to put the ball in the back of net as we did 12 years ago.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Didn't some amateur team once beat one of the worlds best in a "friendly" ? It goes to show how much "luck" plays a part in soccer rather than skill.

When a 1-0 score can make you win and you have one umpire and bs rules and bs actors pretending the slightest touch is a car accident. Well. The best strikers nearly always tend to be the best actors too, no surprise.

every foul tackle in soccer basically involves a trip. even clean tackles are trips, just that the defender makes initial contact with the ball. guys who have never played the sport seem to not realise this.

 

[mcgarnacle]

No it can't. Argentina have done terrible and have the 2nd best player in the world (imo), Portugal besides the euro championship a few years ago, have been terrible for a decade or more with the best player in the world. England have been shocking for 2 decades with some of the best players on the planet in their team. Liverpool in the epl had the best striker in the world currently on form and finished 4th. Basketball definitely can, Lebron took a team that without him wouldn't even make finals to a championship series, but soccer? no way.

In fact, there are so many arguments against this that it's invalid.

LOL! Just because English players played in the most heavily promoted and accessible league doesn't mean they had some of the best players on the planet.

 

[NoobPie]

Gladly. There's a pretty big game on in a few hours time to get geed up for .

Changed my mind, do you have any other photos of desperate football fans "ramming" a sherrin or guernsey down some "international star's throat*"? You seem to be a collector of them (and there's nothing wrong with that at all)

Here's one I dug up...

*repeatedly using "shoving/ramming" things "down throats" to describe marketing does not imply repressed fellatic impulses

 

[mcgarnacle]

Except that a heap of countries who are actually good at it (Italy) are out and a heap of countries who are really bad at it (Saudi Arabia) are in. People talk about the AFL draw being compromised but the World Cup seems to be far more artificially contrived by the various groups to ensure that is some parity in coverage across the world rather than ensuring the best nations in the world actually compete.

The obvious thing to me is the top 24 countries compete as ranked by FIFA compete in a knockout - that would of course limit the competing countries to Europe and South America. The whole selling point goes down the toilet. So you get this artificial "world" cup.

the countries that aren't in russia have competed in the world cup. they didn't make the finals.

do you propose the more than 200 countries play each other once in a 4 year cycle? FFS! even rankings are compromised because nations play different nations to achieve the ranking.

while international qualification phases in soccer and leagues in american sports with a greater number of teams that can be accommodated in a league-style format have implemented confederation/conference/grouping-based progression for decades where opponents primarily competing against each other play twice home & away, the AFL is still stuck in the archaic world of shoe-horning 14 then 16 then 18 teams into 22 rounds -> playing some teams once, and others twice on the whim of the administrator, but comparing them all the same for qualification and seeding for finals.

teams have every opportunity to progress to the 'World' Cup finals, and the best way to logistically accommodate this is to have the more than 200 nations that compete attempt to progress through their region 1st. There are even televised draws to facilitate this, not back room arbitrary calls to try and maximise crowds.

Italy competed in this world cup. they did not win their first round qualifying group so advanced to the second round on a second placed 'wild card' of sorts against another second placed group finisher in sweden. They faced off in a two-leg home and away tie with Sweden progressing to the finals. So how do justify a team that didn't win their group after playing 10 matches home and away against their 5 other group opponents, and didn't win the home & away playoff should progress when 13 other nations in their region could achieve this? Italy had fate in their hands in 12 matches to progress and weren't good enough.

just stick to an 18- team league that the AFL can't even administer correctly.

 

[Hawthorn United]

the countries that aren't in russia have competed in the world cup. they didn't make the finals.

do you propose the more than 200 countries play each other once in a 4 year cycle? FFS! even rankings are compromised because nations play different nations to achieve the ranking.

while international qualification phases in soccer and leagues in american sports with a greater number of teams that can be accommodated in a league-style format have implemented confederation/conference/grouping-based progression for decades where opponents primarily competing against each other play twice home & away, the AFL is still stuck in the archaic world of shoe-horning 14 then 16 then 18 teams into 22 rounds -> playing some teams once, and others twice on the whim of the administrator, but comparing them all the same for qualification and seeding for finals.

teams have every opportunity to progress to the 'World' Cup finals, and the best way to logistically accommodate this is to have the more than 200 nations that compete attempt to progress through their region 1st. There are even televised draws to facilitate this, not back room arbitrary calls to try and maximise crowds.

Italy competed in this world cup. they did not win their first round qualifying group so advanced to the second round on a second placed 'wild card' of sorts against another second placed group finisher in sweden. They faced off in a two-leg home and away tie with Sweden progressing to the finals. So how do justify a team that didn't win their group after playing 10 matches home and away against their 5 other group opponents, and didn't win the home & away playoff should progress when 13 other nations in their region could achieve this? Italy had fate in their hands in 12 matches to progress and weren't good enough.

just stick to an 18- team league that the AFL can't even administer correctly.

Also it's the best countries from each part of the world after they hold their local qualifiers. Not exactly only the best teams. Kind of like how conferences work in the US.

What we're watching now, is Phase 1 of the play-offs/finals. The Home & Away/Regular Season has already been played.

So the best n from region x.

• Africa: 5
• Asia: 4.5
• Europe: 13
• North, Central America and Caribbean: 3.5
• Oceania: 0.5
• South America: 4.5
• Host: 1

I guess it's no cricket World Cup.

 

[Hawthorn United]

You're quite correct re NSW and QLD.

But that's a meaningless example, given they're already part of Australia.

Be honest. How many times have you sat down with your footy-loving mates and chewed the fat, and one of them has piped up with "You know, we're all mates, we all love Aussie Rules passionately. But doesn't it piss you off mightily how it's not hugely popular all over the world? Don't you just wish that everyone everywhere would realise how superior this game of ours is? Doesn't it just burn you up inside how the world doesn't recognise the true genius of our game?"

Said nobody, ever.

I admit I don't have that conversation, but it doesn't mean those in positions of power within the AFL haven't, or conversations to that affect.

Why else expand into areas that aren't demanding AFL like Western Sydney and Queensland, let alone in Shanghai.

They purposely chose to put a team in the northern states over a team in Tasmania who were lobbying for a team. They prioritised gaining new fans, over giving the current ones what they deserve.

 

[Roddy]

So the theatre-going bandwagon has left the station for another four years?

 

[Coaster2012]

LOL! Just because English players played in the most heavily promoted and accessible league doesn't mean they had some of the best players on the planet.

Kane is favorite to win the golden boot at the world cup and one of the best strikers on the planet. FACT. Their entire attacking depth is some of the deepest with Stirling, Vardy, and Rashford. Most squads only have 1 player of that caliber.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Kane is favorite to win the golden boot at the world cup and one of the best strikers on the planet. FACT. Their entire attacking depth is some of the deepest with Stirling, Vardy, and Rashford. Most squads only have 1 player of that caliber.

more the case of familiarity and seeing these players play week-in & week-out. if we saw the bundesliga as much as the premier league, we'd be saying the same about german players, but they slide under the radar because they're not in the premier. thing is, they have results to back it up!

Kane should be leading the golden boot given their opposition to date. this good fortune could extend to rd 16 if they happen to meet japan. the amount of goals he slots through now means shit if he and crew can't continue it deep into the tournament which England with 'some of the best players on the planet' have struggled to accomplish in the past.

 

[Jack Bradley]

Nah Soccer is boring as batshit

 

[Coaster2012]

more the case of familiarity and seeing these players play week-in & week-out. if we saw the bundesliga as much as the premier league, we'd be saying the same about german players, but they slide under the radar because they're not in the premier. thing is, they have results to back it up!

Kane should be leading the golden boot given their opposition to date. this good fortune could extend to rd 16 if they happen to meet japan. the amount of goals he slots through now means shit if he and crew can't continue it deep into the tournament which England with 'some of the best players on the planet' have struggled to accomplish in the past.

Exactly, the argument is that top players in soccer doesn't automatically mean silverware, which is what another supporter is reporting. Perhaps it could be true that we aren't exposed to Bundesliga as much so players like Stirling get more star status for less talent, but I have no doubt Kane is truly world class and would shine in whatever squad/league he was put in. Which would validate my original argument since the poster said 1 world class striker would make an average team win.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I admit I don't have that conversation, but it doesn't mean those in positions of power within the AFL haven't, or conversations to that affect.

Why else expand into areas that aren't demanding AFL like Western Sydney and Queensland, let alone in Shanghai.

They purposely chose to put a team in the northern states over a team in Tasmania who were lobbying for a team. They prioritised gaining new fans, over giving the current ones what they deserve.

As I already said, the expansion into NSW/QLD is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The Australian Football League wants to be the biggest football league in Australia. It already is, by a long shot, but not in every state, so of course they’re going to try to stitch up the remaining territories.

But that’s Australia.

I’m sure most of us are happy if people overseas like our game, but I see no evidence that the average Aussie Rules fan cares two hoots if they don’t.

As to the official level - I really don’t think a hybrid Aust-Irish junket in the off-season, a couple of talent-scouting trips to South Africa by Brett Kirk, a couple of games in China, and a couple in New Zealand (BIG mistake- Kiwis define themselves by rugby union even more than we define ourselves by Aussie Rules) is any evidence of a concerted push by the AFL to make inroads into foreign markets. Little more than a giggle bet.