Review Dogs d Suns 90-79 - Rd 18, 2021

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Maverick Dog

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Oct 30, 2003
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Is our backline missing Gardner more than we think?
Honestly, I think he makes no difference. Not much separates young, Cordy and Gardener. The more he does not play the more you forget he is a similar level as the other 2. With Martin looking very doubtful for the rest of the season I would look at Young to come in as the second ruckman and to play on the resting ruckman i.e Jackson, Ratugolea etc. If Khamis has improved his tank i would prefer him to Cordy due to his closing speed and leap. Not sure if he can play 4 quarters so if he can’t it is not and option
 

BEaston

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Our midfield has been far from dominant in a few of those games.
I posted some metrics in another thread but as of round 14, based on scores per i50 conceded (ie ability for the defence to repel i50s) we were ranked 6th in the league. This metric does not really consider midfield dominance and tries to assess the defence on its own. I think our defence holds up pretty well.
 

Proffessor

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Honestly, I think he makes no difference. Not much separates young, Cordy and Gardener. The more he does not play the more you forget he is a similar level as the other 2. With Martin looking very doubtful for the rest of the season I would look at Young to come in as the second ruckman and to play on the resting ruckman i.e Jackson, Ratugolea etc. If Khamis has improved his tank i would prefer him to Cordy due to his closing speed and leap. Not sure if he can play 4 quarters so if he can’t it is not and option

A whole lot of daylight separates Cordy from the rest of the players in this discussion.

You (and a few others on this forum) are comparing a premiership player with almost 100 games experience who has been a cornerstone of our defence for the past 5 seasons, to a couple of fringe players still trying to establish themselves at AFL level despite multiple years in the system (Gardner is only 7 months younger than Zaine), and a rookie who has played one game and was going so well in that match that he spent the entire last quarter of it banished to the bench.

Zaine Cordy deserves a hell of a lot more credit and respect than he receives here.
 

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dogwatch

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I posted some metrics in another thread but as of round 14, based on scores per i50 conceded (ie ability for the defence to repel i50s) we were ranked 6th in the league. This metric does not really consider midfield dominance and tries to assess the defence on its own. I think our defence holds up pretty well.
It's pretty hard to delineate really.

Naturally that is a decent stat- I'd rather be 6th than 16th on that measure - but midfielders routinely fold back into the d50 to help out so it's a joint effort really.

There's also beena sense that it has changed lately. I don't know whether that's just an illusion. So I'd be interested to know if our numbers for the last four games are consistent with the previous 13 on that metric.
 

dogwatch

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A whole lot of daylight separates Cordy from the rest of the players in this discussion.

You (and a few others on this forum) are comparing a premiership player with almost 100 games experience who has been a cornerstone of our defence for the past 5 seasons, to a couple of fringe players still trying to establish themselves at AFL level despite multiple years in the system (Gardner is only 7 months younger than Zaine), and a rookie who has played one game and was going so well in that match that he spent the entire last quarter of it banished to the bench.

Zaine Cordy deserves a hell of a lot more credit and respect than he receives here.
Certainly there's respect for his role in 2016 and his longevity despite his limited talents. You always know you'll get commitment from Zaine.

However he hasn't always been regarded as an automatic inclusion across his career. I think his best years so far were 2017 and 2018. If anything he has regressed a bit since then, which was reflected in his non-selection for the first five games this year.

I think people are discussing his recent form and that's quite appropriate. Current form is what is important now.

He might still be the best option we have, especially while Gardner is out injured, but there's not that much separating the candidates.
 

BEaston

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It's pretty hard to delineate really.

Naturally that is a decent stat- I'd rather be 6th than 16th on that measure - but midfielders routinely fold back into the d50 to help out so it's a joint effort really.

There's also beena sense that it has changed lately. I don't know whether that's just an illusion. So I'd be interested to know if our numbers for the last four games are consistent with the previous 13 on that metric.
Yeah you're right but it's more to counter the argument that our points against looks good due to our midfield winning the ball and stopping it going back there in the first place.
 

VogonProsthetnic

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A whole lot of daylight separates Cordy from the rest of the players in this discussion.

You (and a few others on this forum) are comparing a premiership player with almost 100 games experience who has been a cornerstone of our defence for the past 5 seasons, to a couple of fringe players still trying to establish themselves at AFL level despite multiple years in the system (Gardner is only 7 months younger than Zaine), and a rookie who has played one game and was going so well in that match that he spent the entire last quarter of it banished to the bench.

Zaine Cordy deserves a hell of a lot more credit and respect than he receives here.
Regardless of what happened in 2016, you can’t ignore the fact that Cordy lacks the physical capabilities to ever be a second KPD.

His contested marking is poor (plenty of evidence of this) and he is too slow to keep up with a moderately quick forward. He is not like Fletcher Roberts either whose lack of pace was mitigated by great disposal and smart positioning.

Young and Gardiner for all their faults are 4-5cm taller and are both quick over the first ten metres.

I really don’t see why Cordy is even canvassed as an option to play on guys like Cameron, Hipwood or McDonald.
 

Proffessor

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Regardless of what happened in 2016, you can’t ignore the fact that Cordy lacks the physical capabilities to ever be a second KPD.

His contested marking is poor (plenty of evidence of this) and he is too slow to keep up with a moderately quick forward. He is not like Fletcher Roberts either whose lack of pace was mitigated by great disposal and smart positioning.

Young and Gardiner for all their faults are 4-5cm taller and are both quick over the first ten metres.

I really don’t see why Cordy is even canvassed as an option to play on guys like Cameron, Hipwood or McDonald.
I disagree completely. He isn't perfect but his contested marking is far superior to anything displayed by Gardner thus far.

There is more to football than physical stature, and even pace. Cordy currently has both Young and Gardner well and truly covered in terms of both composure and football IQ, and as a result he provides more offensive rebound than either of them.

He fits into our pressing structures well, even if he is often a victim of them in terms of appearances when things go wrong. All presses will fail occasionally, and when they do there will be some poor bunny defender caught out as the ball goes over the back. Unfortunately for Zaine there are many supporters who only notice these occasions and don't give him and his mates in the back half any credit for the fact that the ball spends more time in our forward half largely due their hard work.

In last year's final against the Saints, we had both Gardner and Keath in the side, but the defence and team struggled when Cordy got injured.

I realise that Zaine's standing with the match committee isn't as strong as I think it should be but our Defence is much stronger when he is a part of it.
 

Proffessor

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Certainly there's respect for his role in 2016 and his longevity despite his limited talents. You always know you'll get commitment from Zaine.

However he hasn't always been regarded as an automatic inclusion across his career. I think his best years so far were 2017 and 2018. If anything he has regressed a bit since then, which was reflected in his non-selection for the first five games this year.

I think people are discussing his recent form and that's quite appropriate. Current form is what is important now.

He might still be the best option we have, especially while Gardner is out injured, but there's not that much separating the candidates.
The defence in general and Cordy in particular have regularly been criticised unfairly when we have lost this year, because the main failings have usually been further up the field.

Perception is a highly subjective thing. Garcia had as many clangers as kicks last week, but was still widely lauded for his play on this forum.
 

Fossie 32

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The defence in general and Cordy in particular have regularly been criticised unfairly when we have lost this year, because the main failings have usually been further up the field.

Perception is a highly subjective thing. Garcia had as many clangers as kicks last week, but was still widely lauded for his play on this forum.
Garcia's game was way better than his previous best so good reason for us to be pleased about that at least
 

Proffessor

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Garcia's game was way better than his previous best so good reason for us to be pleased about that at least
No problem with people being happy with young players showing improvement. Also keen to see more respect/support for players who have earned it over an extended period of time.
 

The Slitherin' Snake

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footscray1973

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Fair play to Nick Holman. Was fabulous on the weekend, but after reading this article, a new level of respect.

Interesting photo in the article, featuring three BF historical whipping boys together, but what gets me is how Holman's arm is visible through Cordy's bicep! Is Cordy a ghost, or does Holman have some sort of super-power? Also, looking at Holman's left thigh, he seems to be in the process of shape-shifting. Wasn't there a Nick Holman cover-name in the Marvel universe?!

1626933593401.png
 

Dogs_R_Us

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Interesting photo in the article, featuring three BF historical whipping boys together, but what gets me is how Holman's arm is visible through Cordy's bicep! Is Cordy a ghost, or does Holman have some sort of super-power? Also, looking at Holman's left thigh, he seems to be in the process of shape-shifting. Wasn't there a Nick Holman cover-name in the Marvel universe?!

View attachment 1183765
Cordy's bicep is bandaged, you can see the padding on the upper side. (Ok maybe you were joking :$)
 

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