Review Dogs 115 def Suns 67

[Struggle]

No reports from the game?

Libba and VDM both got fined for wrestling twice

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Sometimes it brickbats and some times it bouquets.

This week its bouquets.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Yesterday's win does not explain how we could start the season off so flatly, particularly after an offseason with messages about the round 1 side being the "fittest, strongest and most ready". Clearly this side is capable of very strong performances which potentially match it with the best of the competition, but it happens only sporadically.

Bevo himself last week spoke about “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.” As supporters, we've now sat through the same Round 1 game 3 years running - no wonder we immediately went insane after the result.

We can only hope that Round 1 was an abberation for season 2024 but I don't think anyone could be convinced of that for some time yet.

Totally fine to be agnostic of course and after last season I don’t think many of us will be all that excited even if we’re sitting in the top four mid-season.

I think people place too much emphasis on round one. If anything the early rounds usually throw up odd results and are an unreliable indicator. How many times have GC started red hot only to flame out. The way some people were willing to call the season was absurd.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Libba and VDM both got fined for wrestling twice

Any Suns?

 

[maddog37]

Any Suns?

Holman got fined for having a head like a dropped pastie. At least he should have.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Sometimes it brickbats and some times it bouquets.

This week its bouquets.

That’s what they gotta do - make tackles hurt. That’s what Melbourne did to them.

That goal-save by Poulter - underrated.

 

[Dogs till i die]

Enjoyed my day at Mars, seemed to me the biggest crowd I've seen there, definitely the warmest day.

Goes without saying I enjoyed the "big boys" games, Bont, Libba and Treloar etc.

However I look closely at the bottom 6 more so these days as I see them as the key to our improvement this season.

Buku - this kid has got good hands, good one grab marking, kept it simple, no fumbles.
Baker - was standing on the wing so was close enough to watch his hard work and running, can kick a goal too.
Gallagher - improving his involvement, neat, good handling most times, I'd persevere, something there.
Williams - think his best position is at half back, had a bit of his old poise back, was reliable.
VDM - better than last week, still hasn't convinced me.
Bramble - was good, no nonsense, can break lines, good kick, not sure why he got desisted at the Hawks. Keeps his spot for the time being.

Other things that made me smile - Darcy will be a beauty, still love JJ taking off with the ball (2016 PF!!)., Jones almost as important as our midfielder,s very important to our structure, great intercept marking. Finally, Weightman, what a fantastic small forwards game, one big mark but stayed down generally and reaped the rewards.

One final thought, why are Naughton and JUH often within 10 metres of each other and too often flying for the same ball?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Sometimes it brickbats and some times it bouquets.

This week its bouquets.

Some of the those efforts will be getting a fair run in the post match review.

Vanders rundown tackle from 10m away and the tackle and second effort later in the clip is why he’s getting a game.

We saw a lot of that early in his career, but as with a lot of his teammates, it’s been absent for a while.

He doesn’t need to rack up 20 disposals a game. Bring a heap of pressure when we don’t have the footy and out side pace when we do and he’ll be a regular each week. Hopefully he goes on with it.

 

[perro_loco]

Um…..no?

He’s a good coach who frustrates and annoys the hell out of everyone because he often loses the plot, makes stupid team selections, is stubborn as all hell, falls apart against top sides like Melbourne repeatedly, and does not make the finals with a list most rate as good enough to be a contender.

Has anyone actually retracted their criticism of him just because we won yesterday?

I certainly haven’t and I don’t see anyone else doing it either.

he has a long way to go to win my trust and i think that of many supporters. i wish him all the best success and i hope i can say again: in bevo I trust. atm because of all you say, i don't.

 

[stefoid]

I think people place too much emphasis on round one. If anything the early rounds usually throw up odd results and are an unreliable indicator. How many times have GC started red hot only to flame out. The way some people were willing to call the season was absurd.

So we just pencil in an embarrassing groundhog day loss to melbourne again, round 1 next year? Its not the loss so much as to who and how. Whether it was round 1 or round 5, we needed to see visible evidence of progression against a team that thoroughly owns us. Same with Geelong in round 4. If we lose to them by bombing it long to their tall defenders and then getting killed lost in transition, letting them hit up forwards in space...Ill spew up.

 

[_Cerberus_]

So we just pencil in an embarrassing groundhog day loss to melbourne again, round 1 next year? Its not the loss so much as to who and how. Whether it was round 1 or round 5, we needed to see visible evidence of progression against a team that thoroughly owns us. Same with Geelong in round 4. If we lose to them by bombing it long to their tall defenders and then getting killed lost in transition, letting them hit up forwards in space...Ill spew up.

I've already made Stewart my SC captain for R4, as I know we will just kick it to him all day long xD

Our fixture suddenly looking tougher than expected. We play both Sydney teams twice, who look set to be top 4 material at this stage. As well as the Demons, who are our bogey side along with Geelong. Looking like we could realistically double up vs three of the top 4. Fremantle will make us work for it. 5 of our 6 double ups are currently inside the top 6.

 

[Dazb86]

Treloars tackling was noticeably up this weekend

 

[grassman75]

Everyone want bevo sacked this week?

Nah, just the same argumentative fwits on the FB forum.

 

[grassman75]

I've already made Stewart my SC captain for R4, as I know we will just kick it to him all day long xD

Our fixture suddenly looking tougher thane expected. We play both Sydney teams twice, who look set to be top 4 material at this stage. As well as the Demons, who are our bogey side along with Geelong. Looking like we could realistically double up vs three of the top 4. Fremantle will make us work for it. 5 of our 6 double ups are currently inside the top 6.

That’s why I don’t buy into the “easy draw” mentality.

Just cos a team was s**t last year, doesn’t guarantee they will be s**t this year

 

[grassman75]

Seems a little better than advertised and just looks and plays like a genuine AFL standard player.

Certainly not another McComb like one the armchair experts mentioned on here

 

[grassman75]

Totally fine to be agnostic of course and after last season I don’t think many of us will be all that excited even if we’re sitting in the top four mid-season.

I think people place too much emphasis on round one. If anything the early rounds usually throw up odd results and are an unreliable indicator. How many times have GC started red hot only to flame out. The way some people were willing to call the season was absurd.

Carlton fans wanted Voss booted last year after about 8 rounds and the went on to a prelim.

 

[Golden_6]

Certainly not another McComb like one the armchair experts mentioned on here

Anyone who knew anything about him knew he wasn’t another McComb. He already has some pretty solid AFL form under his belt but I don’t think anyone expected that he would walk into our best 22 and play like he belongs in it.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

On replay:

• Dimma outcoached in the first quarter, easily. Allowed Rowell and Libba to neutralised each other and Treloar's man (Flanders/Miller) was too worried about Bont that it allowed Treloar to have a big influence in the first. Dimma simarly outcoached by not figuring out what he wanted to do with his loose player at the stoppages. That loose was caught in no-mans land - not a genuine loose defender but not also impacting the stoppages. Once Bont/Treloar got free they were able to move it beyond our half-forward/their half-back where their loose was, and into our deep forward, where Weightman could get to work, without having to work through a loose. Here's an example (not only do they stuff up their positioning in the stoppage itself, but our loose player is positioned perfectly, while their loose player should either be closer to the contest or a genuine kick behind play. This happened a few times in the first half)
• Nobody knew which direction a free was being paid a few times in the game when it went to the Suns
• The difference between Witts and Moyle is arguably the biggest difference for a player injury in the league. Witts as a leader, organiser, captain, far better ruck than Moyle is surely worth at least a couple of goals
• Walter playing his first game had no idea how to read the play against Khamis. Khamis was excellent, and has been an AFL listed player for some time, but last year he was a forward and has not played a heap of league games either. It was embarrassing for Walters how much he let Khamis influence the game.
• I can see how Vandermeer applied pressure but also got separation late in quarters helping our ball movement. I get the role he's playing, but I'm really not so sure of the value of a player doing the 1%ers makes valuable a player who barely does the 99%ers. He still missed a (relatively difficult) shot at goal, he still only got 2 contested possessions and went at 8/12 effective disposals despite that, only 3 of his 12 touches were score involvements despite having such 12 touches.
• Despite some struggles with ball movement and Dimma working out his players' structure and positioning in the 2nd quarter, our pressure was outstanding. Despite the territory battle in that quarter being won by the Suns, it never really felt that they got great value out of winning the territory as they rarely chained together free possession in space.

 

[lachy]

On replay:

• Dimma outcoached in the first quarter, easily. Allowed Rowell and Libba to neutralised each other and Treloar's man (Flanders/Miller) was too worried about Bont that it allowed Treloar to have a big influence in the first. Dimma simarly outcoached by not figuring out what he wanted to do with his loose player at the stoppages. That loose was caught in no-mans land - not a genuine loose defender but not also impacting the stoppages. Once Bont/Treloar got free they were able to move it beyond our half-forward/their half-back where their loose was, and into our deep forward, where Weightman could get to work, without having to work through a loose. Here's an example (not only do they stuff up their positioning in the stoppage itself, but our loose player is positioned perfectly, while their loose player should either be closer to the contest or a genuine kick behind play. This happened a few times in the first half) View attachment 1939794
• Nobody knew which direction a free was being paid a few times in the game when it went to the Suns
• The difference between Witts and Moyle is arguably the biggest difference for a player injury in the league. Witts as a leader, organiser, captain, far better ruck than Moyle is surely worth at least a couple of goals
• Walter playing his first game had no idea how to read the play against Khamis. Khamis was excellent, and has been an AFL listed player for some time, but last year he was a forward and has not played a heap of league games either. It was embarrassing for Walters how much he let Khamis influence the game.
• I can see how Vandermeer applied pressure but also got separation late in quarters helping our ball movement. I get the role he's playing, but I'm really not so sure of the value of a player doing the 1%ers makes valuable a player who barely does the 99%ers. He still missed a (relatively difficult) shot at goal, he still only got 2 contested possessions and went at 8/12 effective disposals despite that, only 3 of his 12 touches were score involvements despite having such 12 touches.
• Despite some struggles with ball movement and Dimma working out his players' structure and positioning in the 2nd quarter, our pressure was outstanding. Despite the territory battle in that quarter being won by the Suns, it never really felt that they got great value out of winning the territory as they rarely chained together free possession in space.

Is it Dimma being out coached, or is it Dimma teaching players the system that he has been so successful with that does not focus at all on one v one matchups?

 

[stefoid]

Anyone who knew anything about him knew he wasn’t another McComb. He already has some pretty solid AFL form under his belt but I don’t think anyone expected that he would walk into our best 22 and play like he belongs in it.

Why was he delisted by Hawthorn?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Why was he delisted by Hawthorn?

Hawthorn's half-backs play a mark-kick style. They broke some uncontested mark record in the first quarter against Essendon, as an example. Bramble played as much out of position on the wing just to get him out of that system rather than a more natural running half-back position.

 

[stefoid]

On replay:

• Dimma outcoached in the first quarter, easily. Allowed Rowell and Libba to neutralised each other and Treloar's man (Flanders/Miller) was too worried about Bont that it allowed Treloar to have a big influence in the first. Dimma simarly outcoached by not figuring out what he wanted to do with his loose player at the stoppages. That loose was caught in no-mans land - not a genuine loose defender but not also impacting the stoppages. Once Bont/Treloar got free they were able to move it beyond our half-forward/their half-back where their loose was, and into our deep forward, where Weightman could get to work, without having to work through a loose. Here's an example (not only do they stuff up their positioning in the stoppage itself, but our loose player is positioned perfectly, while their loose player should either be closer to the contest or a genuine kick behind play. This happened a few times in the first half) View attachment 1939794
• Nobody knew which direction a free was being paid a few times in the game when it went to the Suns
• The difference between Witts and Moyle is arguably the biggest difference for a player injury in the league. Witts as a leader, organiser, captain, far better ruck than Moyle is surely worth at least a couple of goals
• Walter playing his first game had no idea how to read the play against Khamis. Khamis was excellent, and has been an AFL listed player for some time, but last year he was a forward and has not played a heap of league games either. It was embarrassing for Walters how much he let Khamis influence the game.
• I can see how Vandermeer applied pressure but also got separation late in quarters helping our ball movement. I get the role he's playing, but I'm really not so sure of the value of a player doing the 1%ers makes valuable a player who barely does the 99%ers. He still missed a (relatively difficult) shot at goal, he still only got 2 contested possessions and went at 8/12 effective disposals despite that, only 3 of his 12 touches were score involvements despite having such 12 touches.
• Despite some struggles with ball movement and Dimma working out his players' structure and positioning in the 2nd quarter, our pressure was outstanding. Despite the territory battle in that quarter being won by the Suns, it never really felt that they got great value out of winning the territory as they rarely chained together free possession in space.

Great image - I know you cant cover everything, but is it an issue that a lateral kick to the left of your radio dial would allow the suns to lead their opponents onto it? Is that what their spare is there for? an outlet for a clearance and then a right foot kick in that direction?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Is it Dimma being out coached, or is it Dimma teaching players the system that he has been so successful with that does not focus at all on one v one matchups?

This.

Dimmas likely not looking to make regular in game changes quarter to quarter, week to week.

He’ll stay the course in teaching the playing group how he wants them to play.

If they lose early games because of it, so be it.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

This.

Dimmas likely not looking to make regular in game changes quarter to quarter, week to week.

He’ll stay the course in teaching the playing group how he wants them to play.

If they lose early games because of it, so be it.

He made large stoppage changes after quarter time to arrest the Dogs' dominance in the first quarter though?

Surely you don't want to teach players a system that isn't working?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

He made large stoppage changes after quarter time to arrest the Dogs' dominance in the first quarter though?

Surely you don't want to teach players a system that isn't working?

You’re over thinking it.

GC were slow and sloppy at the stoppages early on and were off with contested footy. We weren’t.

They were better from qtr time. 5min in to the 2nd quarter, they had 12 contested disposals to our 5.

This wasn’t Dimma making any changes, he’s just got the players to execute better from that point.