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Doggies_13 said:
See above post you are factually incorrect on Naughton.

Second most reliable under the roof out of the talls and most reliable outside of Marvel.

For totality
Naughton 80 shots 40 goals 29 behinds 11 no scores, conversion % 50%
JUH 88 shots 33 goals 34 behinds 21 no scores conversion % 37.5%
Lobb 40 shots 18 goals 16 behinds 6 no scores conversion % 45%

Statistically JUH is an inferior goal kicker to Naughton.

Previous years I would agree Naughton constantly butchers opportunities this year he has improved. One game is clouding everyone’s mind atm.
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OG has provided stats showing that his two misses yesterday were regarded at 70%+ Chance of conversion. Similarly he missed one at a 70%+ Chance v GWS. It’s not that he misses, it’s that he misses very easy ones that cost momentum.
 
The Inbetweener said:
OG has provided stats showing that his two misses yesterday were regarded at 70%+ Chance of conversion. Similarly he missed one at a 70%+ Chance v GWS. It’s not that he misses, it’s that he misses very easy ones that cost momentum.
Click to expand...

He has and did yesterday but same can be said about Bont on multiple occasions. It’s a club wide issue
 

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_Mike_ said:
100% agree on that one & that Arty should not have been playing IMO



Difficult to be smarter at the selection table when the same type of fringe/project players (Scott, Baker, McNiel etc) keep getting selected. The list does not have the depth IMO
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It’s all a matter of opinion I guess regarding the list quality.

I think our list is generally in pretty good shape. Perhaps a few too many similar type players of similar standards in a few spots but given the complexities of list management, nothing insurmountable.

For example I think had we selected anyone of those fringe players ahead of Arty Jones on the weekend, we would have been ok. Recognising Scott wasn’t available, of course, but even if we had started Baker on the field we would have been in better shape.

Just a little less focus on future development and a little more on the here and now at selection, might be all it takes to turn some of our close losses into wins, and the ladder position could look a whole lot different.
 
CarnTheScray said:
The Melbourne game. That’s the one that got me through the season. And then we dished up probably the worst finals choke out of any team this decade.
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In hindsight, Dees were pretty average second half of last year. So even that doesn’t have the same gloss as at the time. Was a very enjoyable win though.
 
Not having JJ's run out of the back half hurt, but can't keep him on the park. Just cannot keep a consistent team in the defensive half and it's showing
 
Munnez said:
Not having JJ's run out of the back half hurt, but can't keep him on the park. Just cannot keep a consistent team in the defensive half and it's showing
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Gallagher getting crook was the worst timing was sensational in the game up in Sydney however Cleary also has been most of the year yet can't get a look in
 
redmania said:
Bevo is starting to remind me of the employee who used to be great but is now just a plodder...hanging out for a package,.but not really that bothered.
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Same with the President, CEO, the lot. Clearly comfortable with mediocrity. Any 'pass mark is making finals' comment from the administration is pathetic.

Not sure what it will take to understand that limping into the finals again and getting pumped Week 1 is not a pass mark, it's a failure and I'd much rather us finish 9th, spare the embarrassment and expose the real issues at the club.
 
Dogs Rule said:
Same with the President, CEO, the lot. Clearly comfortable with mediocrity. Any 'pass mark is making finals' comment from the administration is pathetic.

Not sure what it will take to understand that limping into the finals again and getting pumped Week 1 is not a pass mark, it's a failure and I'd much rather us finish 9th, spare the embarrassment and expose the real issues at the club.
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I think we will finish 9th so we wont be limping into finals so no one will have we made the 8 to hang their hat on.
 

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Dog 36 said:
I think we will finish 9th so we wont be limping into finals so no one will have we made the 8 to hang their hat on.
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Still won't change anything.

At most it'll be "the players fault for not executing properly"

Part of that is true, but it's a collective issue and the message comes from above
 
Doggy said:
Still won't change anything.

At most it'll be "the players fault for not executing properly"

Part of that is true, but it's a collective issue and the message comes from above
Click to expand...

West Coast let things drift because they have tonnes of cash and a members waiting list. That's complacency that's being comfortable. We can't afford to do that, members will drop off, our crowds will fall, sponsors become harder to attract or keep and we'll become irrelevant. That might finally wake the administration up.
 
Dogs Rule said:
West Coast let things drift because they have tonnes of cash and a members waiting list. That's complacency that's being comfortable. We can't afford to do that, members will drop off, our crowds will fall, sponsors become harder to attract or keep and we'll become irrelevant. That might finally wake the administration up.
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That would be too late really.

They need to make Beveridge the support and the assistants the strategists (new assistants obviously)

Just that should yield some decent results. I keep saying it, but 6 games we have lost in winning positions, and 3 under a goal in the last month
 
Lindsay_Gilbee said:
I think it was warranted while he was forward, definitely been a good addition down back.
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You'd figure our list manager would have an idea as to where player's strengths are.
 
dogwatch said:
It's our lot.

Collingwood played most of their games at the MCG.

Others were at Adelaide Oval (x3)
Docklands (x3)
Gabba
Metricon
Optus Oval

All high quality stadiums and most if not all with good enclosure. Not a regional or territorial game amongst them.
And Dog forbid they should have to play at KP.

Not blaming the Pies. It's the way the AFL works as a business, but it sure as hell isn't equalisation.
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Yep, I know Ballarat is our own doing, but feels like we play in Tasmania and Canberra (equally scrappy conditions as Ballarat) more than anyone. And of course at Geelong, worst of all.

Given that we take ourselves out of marvel twice a year (where we play best) we should be kicking up a stink about being thrown to the shitty grounds every year. Our kicking is bad enough under a roof, these conditions don’t help!

But as you say, just the way it is with the afl.
 
Personally, I couldn't care less about A or B players goal overall goal accuracy.

The issue for me with goal kicking, is that it feels like we routinely miss from 20m - 30m out when the game is on the line. I couldn't care less if goal kicking accuracy is padded up by nailing heaps of shots in 50 point wins, or when we are having a good patch.

When the game is close, or we need to wrestle back momentum on the scoreboard. Or maybe getting that one extra goal could have kept the momentum with us in the Grand Final and seen us with a 20 point lead at 3Q time etc. It's getting the goals with a high league percentile average of getting, when they matter most. Bont has been one of the worst at it, and resulting misses have seen the momentum swing to the other team, and they get a few in a row. Have seen Naughton do it a few times, as have other players, when we needed someone to stand up for us.

We are not nailing the ones we should be nailing, when we need them the most, that is the issue. Overall accuracy means little otherwise.
Someone with a career accuracy of 70%, but goes only 30% when the game is on the line vs someone with a career accuracy of 40%, but goes at 60% in high pressure situations / game on the line. Give me the latter with the ball for those games each time. At least I know they can handle the pressure.

Wish we still had Dicksons, Smiths and Picken types on the team. They knew how to handle pressure and stood up when we needed them the most, not when we needed them the least.
 
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hutchy31 said:
Well, I watch most games and while I agree there is a league-wide epidemic of poor goal kicking, Naughton is one of the worst at missing simple set shots when they need to be kicked.

Apart from maybe McKay, or Daniher on a bad day, I wouldn't think many KPFs would miss both of the two easier ones Naughton did yesterday - a simple set shot from maybe 25m straight in front where he only needed to allow a few metres for the wind, then probably an even easier snap from 20-25m out on the right side for him. Lobb's misses were poor too, but they weren't as easy as Naughton's.

He's had some better days this year and kicked a few I wouldn't expect him to, so maybe there is some general trend of improvement. But his misses yesterday just sucked the life out of me watching it, so god knows what it does to his teammates. It's so deflating when he goes up for a great mark, then just butchers the kick. That combined with our poor gameplan and efforts in stopping opposition transition from forward 50 makes it worse, and it can then result in a scoring shot to the opposition less than a minute later - rather than having the additional five points and back to centre - where we are normally pretty good at winning the ball.

JUH might be more of a worry, in that he looked to have a much better technique than Naughton yet has been found wanting this year. I have a feeling that his shots are typically harder than Naughton's, but I don't have data to back it up and at his conversion rate it's probably not an excuse. He is a couple of years younger and therefore maybe I/we will give him more of the benefit of the doubt, but I agree it has been a concern this year.

The main problem is that aside from a few players like Dickson, this has been a problem for years and it doesn't seem like much is done to rectify it (or what has been done hasn't worked).
Click to expand...
I think Naughton is about league average with conversion. And every now and then will miss an easy one that supporters fixate on.

The reason for this is because he was drafted as a back. So supporters will always expect him to be worse than he actually is to the point where his misses are remembered far more than his goals.

Jamarra is the opposite. He was touted the the most natural and best forward of his draft. So supporters ignore or make excuses for his misses and celebrate his goals.

It's genuinely a case of confirmation bias happening in front of our eyes.

I can't count how many times supporters have written stuff like, Marra has shots from further out or that he's tired when he has his shots. Ignoring that Naughton often nails those same 40ish meter shots and puts on more defensive pressure than any other forward in the league. Also it ignores the simple shots Marra has missed or put out on the full the last shot of the North and GWS games stick in my mind as misses Naughton would've been caned for.

We obviously need more investment in our key forwards now that we have three genuine blue chip prospects. But supporters are ******* reactionary sometimes.
 
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immortalmike said:
I think Naughton is about league average with conversion. And every now and then will miss an easy one that supporters fixate on.

The reason for this is because he was drafted as a back. So supporters will always expect him to be worse than he actually is to the point where his misses are remembered far more than his goals.

Jamarra is the opposite. He was touted the the most natural and best forward of his draft. So supporters ignore or make excuses for his misses and celebrate his goals.

It's genuinely a case of confirmation bias happening in front of our eyes.

I can't count how many times supporters have written stuff like Marra has shots from further out or that he's tired when he has his shots. Ignoring that Naughton often nails those same 40ish meter shots and puts more defensive pressure than any other forward in the league. Also it ignores the simple shots Marra has missed or put out on the full the last shot of the North and GWS games stick in my mind as misses Naughton would've been caned for.

We obviously need more investment in our key forwards now that we have three genuine blue chip prospects. But supporters are ******* reactionary sometimes.
Click to expand...

Imagine if we had a forward coach who had actually played and been a success as a forward? Somebody who could teach our forwards how to be a forward, how to convert, because they had been a champion forward themselves.

Got to live in hope...
 
Coaches Votes

Hawthorn v Western Bulldogs​

10 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
8 Karl Amon (HAW)
3 Ed Richards (WB)
3 Blake Hardwick (HAW)
2 James Worpel (HAW)
2 Dylan Moore (HAW)
1 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
1 Will Day (HAW)
 
Dogs Rule said:
Imagine if we had a forward coach who had actually played and been a success as a forward? Somebody who could teach our forwards how to be a forward, how to convert, because they had been a champion forward themselves.

Got to live in hope...
Click to expand...

does the name Josh Bruce ring a bell :)
 
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