Autopsy Dogs discombombulated by Mt Buller - 115 to 65

[Dogs 13]

It's quite unfair to isolate him from atrocious team defence, but boy it was akin to a Daniel Cross/Grundy (i believe?) being run down situation.

Leigh Brown which was even more embarrassing. Time flies hey

 

[Contador]

Time for the optimistic take for the week:

The performance wasn't that bad, we just managed to stuff up the big moments (some through rank bad luck). We looked the better team for some lengthy periods.

I don't count the last quarter - the dees were just running more because they were happy and having fun while we were demoralised. The rest of the game was basically a 20 point margin. Can we make that up in the next match? Let's see:

• We missed several easy chances while they slotted theirs. People say we always miss our chances but I don't think that's true if you look at the stats, we'll regress to the mean next time - +3 goals in our favour next time.
• We conceded several goals directly due to unusual stupid errors/bad luck (Jones kick into the mark / 666 infringement / bounce of ball to BBrown / JJ dropped mark / treloar letting his opponent run off the mark / libba handball to the ground etc.) - +4 goals in our favour next time
• We lost Ljizz at a critical time which left us relying on newbies Bruce and Darcy - resulted in 2 or 3 quick goals and probably contributed to a couple of others - +3 goals in our favour next time.
• We're settling in a pretty new defence and forward line - +2 goals in our favour next time.

I've been conservative with that assessment but that alone leaves us with a 8-9 goal win next time we play the dees, or 3-4 goals if you count the last quarter. Pretty good!

 

[mal68au]

I've been conservative with that assessment but that alone leaves us with a 8-9 goal win next time we play the dees

Should we expect another extension announced for Bevo later today?

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Time for the optimistic take for the week:

The performance wasn't that bad, we just managed to stuff up the big moments (some through rank bad luck). We looked the better team for some lengthy periods.

I don't count the last quarter - the dees were just running more because they were happy and having fun while we were demoralised. The rest of the game was basically a 20 point margin. Can we make that up in the next match? Let's see:

• We missed several easy chances while they slotted theirs. People say we always miss our chances but I don't think that's true if you look at the stats, we'll regress to the mean next time - +3 goals in our favour next time.
• We conceded several goals directly due to unusual stupid errors/bad luck (Jones kick into the mark / 666 infringement / bounce of ball to BBrown / JJ dropped mark / treloar letting his opponent run off the mark / libba handball to the ground etc.) - +4 goals in our favour next time
• We lost Ljizz at a critical time which left us relying on newbies Bruce and Darcy - resulted in 2 or 3 quick goals and probably contributed to a couple of others - +3 goals in our favour next time.
• We're settling in a pretty new defence and forward line - +2 goals in our favour next time.

I've been conservative with that assessment but that alone leaves us with a 8-9 goal win next time we play the dees, or 3-4 goals if you count the last quarter. Pretty good!

Dogs get the moral victory

 

[X_box_X]

Centre Bounce Attendances.

WB 29 - T.English 27, T.Liberatore 21, M.Bontempelli 20, J.Macrae 18, B.Smith 16, A. Treloar 12, R.Lobb 1 & S.Darcy 1

If you discount the three ruckmen, we rotated only five players through the centre bounce.

We're still waiting on the Bombers, Hawks, Dockers and Saints CBA figures, but so far that is the fewest of any team in round one.

So much for us having a stacked midfield.

 

[Al dente]

Bevo said in the pressor that although were very tall, only 3 of the 4 monsters are on the ground at any one time.

this is in contradiction to his refusal to play a second ruck for the past 5 years due to having a defensive liability to stick somewhere when not in the ruck, and that another mid size utility is preferable. i know the quality of our talls has improved but this smacks of a confused coach.

 

[St 07]

Time for the optimistic take for the week:

The performance wasn't that bad, we just managed to stuff up the big moments (some through rank bad luck). We looked the better team for some lengthy periods.

Have to give Melb some + goals considering their missing players too. Great positive post but it's a bit of a stretch for mine. We looked unprepared.

 

[Sentinel]

Bevo said in the pressor that although were very tall, only 3 of the 4 monsters are on the ground at any one time.

this is in contradiction to his refusal to play a second ruck for the past 5 years due to having a defensive liability to stick somewhere when not in the ruck, and that another mid size utility is preferable. i know the quality of our talls has improved but this smacks of a confused coach.

The term "4 headed monster" is going to get old pretty quickly if Saturday night's output is repeated.

 

[MrChristo]

Bevo said in the pressor that although were very tall, only 3 of the 4 monsters are on the ground at any one time.

this is in contradiction to his refusal to play a second ruck for the past 5 years due to having a defensive liability to stick somewhere when not in the ruck, and that another mid size utility is preferable. i know the quality of our talls has improved but this smacks of a confused coach.

My biggest concern is that if we make the decision to go big up forward then that has to be the avenue to goal.

What I mean is that we need to then predominantly rely on marking and set shot goal kicking.

There is no point whatsoever (imho) of then implementing some kind of forward pressure/press when you've committed to be tall and therefore a bit slow.

A team that sets up this way can simply not ever be scored against the way we were at times...easy balls over the back, fast break style out-numbered.
If we are relying on our forwards to stay forward, then the backline MUST sit back in a much deeper zone as the expectation must be that if we don't clunk a mark or score then the rebound will come.

I agree, it's a confusing game plan.

 

[Dogs Rule]

My biggest concern is that if we make the decision to go big up forward then that has to be the avenue to goal.

What I mean is that we need to then predominantly rely on marking and set shot goal kicking.

There is no point whatsoever (imho) of then implementing some kind of forward pressure/press when you've committed to be tall and therefore a bit slow.

A team that sets up this way can simply not ever be scored against the way we were at times...easy balls over the back, fast break style out-numbered.
If we are relying on our forwards to stay forward, then the backline MUST sit back in a much deeper zone as the expectation must be that if we don't clunk a mark or score then the rebound will come.

I agree, it's a confusing game plan.

I feel like this sums us up post 2016 GF.

Seven years now.

 

[Shacf501]

Have a look at that. Daniel might be the only person in the history of sports that require the disposing of an object by foot to have his foot skill get worse but accuracy by foot get better across two seasons.

His Clangers also dropped from 3.1 per game in 2021 to 2 per game in 2022.

Would love to hear the explanation from other supporters regarding this. Super confusing.

have to be careful when looking at kicking efficiency. For instance, I can kick it backwards to a target with no pressure and hit him on the chest or even to a player on the boundary line with no one on them... once again, if I hit the target its 100% efficiency. Though, this isn't really helping the team in anyway is it because it is not offensive enough.

However, to take a risk and go through the middle where defensive pressure lies waiting is risky so in my opinion a 75% efficiency in this circumstance is better than the other option as it breaks defences and gives forwards better opportunities if it comes off.. Hope this makes sense?

 

[Shacf501]

Time for the optimistic take for the week:

The performance wasn't that bad, we just managed to stuff up the big moments (some through rank bad luck). We looked the better team for some lengthy periods.

I don't count the last quarter - the dees were just running more because they were happy and having fun while we were demoralised. The rest of the game was basically a 20 point margin. Can we make that up in the next match? Let's see:

• We missed several easy chances while they slotted theirs. People say we always miss our chances but I don't think that's true if you look at the stats, we'll regress to the mean next time - +3 goals in our favour next time.
• We conceded several goals directly due to unusual stupid errors/bad luck (Jones kick into the mark / 666 infringement / bounce of ball to BBrown / JJ dropped mark / treloar letting his opponent run off the mark / libba handball to the ground etc.) - +4 goals in our favour next time
• We lost Ljizz at a critical time which left us relying on newbies Bruce and Darcy - resulted in 2 or 3 quick goals and probably contributed to a couple of others - +3 goals in our favour next time.
• We're settling in a pretty new defence and forward line - +2 goals in our favour next time.

I've been conservative with that assessment but that alone leaves us with a 8-9 goal win next time we play the dees, or 3-4 goals if you count the last quarter. Pretty good!

you would make a good salesman my friend

 

[Woof]

Lobb off for ankle surgery explains his bewildering lack of time relieving English in the ruck. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but wish they’d made the call a week earlier.

 

[Contador]

Have to give Melb some + goals considering their missing players too. Great positive post but it's a bit of a stretch for mine. We looked unprepared.

Nah this is being overplayed I reckon. By the time Jones goes down (when scores are basically even), we've nearly matched them for players out:

Key medium forward (fritsch) = key medium forward (weightman)

Key defender (may) = key defender (jones)

Key half back (salem) = key defender (gardner)

Then they miss a middling mid. Sure theirs are probably a bit better but not that dramatically - Gardner could have solidified our defence quite a bit for example. +1 goal to them next time.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

have to be careful when looking at kicking efficiency. For instance, I can kick it backwards to a target with no pressure and hit him on the chest or even to someone on the boundary like with no one on them... once again, if I hit the target its 100% efficiency. Though, this isn't really helping the team in anyway is it because it is not offensive enough.

However, to take a risk and go through the middle where defensive pressure lies waiting is risky so in my opinion a 75% efficiency in this circumstance is better than the other option as it breaks defences and gives forwards better opportunities if it comes off.. Hope this makes sense?

Certainly makes sense.

I think we can comfortably agree that most of Daniel’s kicks are the latter. With his game sense and intelligence, he more often than not bites off the disposal that most can’t, which is the dangerous kick to open things up.

My post was a sly dig at those suggesting his disposal has dropped off in recent seasons. His improved accuracy over season 21 to 22, coupled with his preference to go the dangerous route suggest otherwise.

 

[dogwatch]

Have to give Melb some + goals considering their missing players too. Great positive post but it's a bit of a stretch for mine. We looked unprepared.

Not only that but Melbourne had lots of uncharacteristic clangers too. They’ll be a better side by at least several goals next time we meet them.

 

[dogwatch]

S

Lobb off for ankle surgery explains his bewildering lack of time relieving English in the ruck. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but wish they’d made the call a week earlier.

So our two big signings in the offseason are out injured already and Gardner is also out for an extended period. This means far from being straightened up in defence we are probably worse off than the parlous condition that we ended 2022 in. A lot is resting on Bruce being an unlikely success in his new role.

And in attack we are back to Naughton and Marra as our only targets and still getting appalling service from the i50 entries. Yes there’s also Darcy but he’s a gangly foal at the moment. He’ll probably do well against the likes of North Hawthorn and St Kilda but we can’t expect him to dominate against the genuine finals contenders. He was all at sea against Melbourne.

To make matters worse Weightman, our 30 goal “small” forward is now out for a period that seems to double with every passing week.

Meanwhile our once vaunted midfield has probably regressed again.

That off-season optimism sure vaporised quickly.

 

[Mofra]

Then there is the problem of the pile of elephant s**t left behind in the other corner. That of the passivity of the playing group when it all gets a bit hard...

This is the point where we need to sideline our 'good' players and throw a hard arse into the mix.
With all due respect to Bont, we need a Matthew Boyd type in the mix. Someone flawed, but hard as a cats head. A Liam Picken - dare I say it, a Rhylee West or Rhylee Garcia? They're a bit raw and not quite ready but they both have that little dose of 'bastard' that to be frank I'm not sure our 'A grade' mids have.

 

[Golden_6]

S

So our two big signings in the offseason are out injured already and Gardner is also out for an extended period. This means far from being straightened up in defence we are probably worse off than the parlous condition that we ended 2022 in. A lot is resting on Bruce being an unlikely success in his new role.

And in attack we are back to Naughton and Marra as our only targets and still getting appalling service from the i50 entries. Yes there’s also Darcy but he’s a gangly foal at the moment. He’ll probably do well against the likes of North Hawthorn and St Kilda but we can’t expect him to dominate against the genuine finals contenders. He was all at sea against Melbourne.

To make matters worse Weightman, our 30 goal “small” forward is now out for a period that seems to double with every passing week.

Meanwhile our once vaunted midfield has probably regressed again.

That off-season optimism sure vaporised quickly.

I think this is a bit over the top. Jones might still play this week and Gardner is listed as 1-2 weeks away.

We have to remember we were playing games early last season with Cordy & O'Brien as significant pieces of our structure.

 

[Mofra]

Not only that but Melbourne had lots of uncharacteristic clangers too. They’ll be a better side by at least several goals next time we meet them.

I think we have far more improvement left in our game than they do in theirs. Tomlinson looked like peak Scarlett out there given Lobb was battling injury (he's out this week) and our forward entries had all the accuracy of a Tarot Card reader's prediction.

 

[dogwatch]

I think this is a bit over the top. Jones might still play this week and Gardner is listed as 1-2 weeks away.

We have to remember we were playing games early last season with Cordy & O'Brien as significant pieces of our structure.

Good news if Jones is cleared to play and Gardner back in a week. Is that from the club?

I’ve been going by sketchy reports and a fair bit of doom and gloom when Jones was subbed out. What happened to our injury reports from our club medico? (There you have it Dogs fans …)? Is he still doing them? Can someone update our injury thread? I’m on the road ATM.

Not interested in comparisons with a year ago though. More interested in comparisons with our end of year situation in 2022, where we were clearly incapable of progressing against top 8 sides.

We will need both Jones and Gardner fit and in form to have made any improvement.

I didn’t mention Duryea either. These days he doesn’t seem the player he was in 2021. Who is there to fill that hole? Crozier? Cleary? Can’t expect Gallagher to step up immediately.

 

[dogwatch]

I think we have far more improvement left in our game than they do in theirs. Tomlinson looked like peak Scarlett out there given Lobb was battling injury (he's out this week) and our forward entries had all the accuracy of a Tarot Card reader's prediction.

My recollection is that our forward entries were like this most of last year. My Tarot cards tell me it’s unlikely to be changing any time soon.

Do you have any reason to think it will?

I’d be looking at using Daniel for those crucial i50 kicks. At least then if it goes over their heads it’ll be no worse than kicks from our other midfielders. Caleb has the smarts and composure (usually) to put the ball in the right spots.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

This is the point where we need to sideline our 'good' players and throw a hard arse into the mix.
With all due respect to Bont, we need a Matthew Boyd type in the mix. Someone flawed, but hard as a cats head. A Liam Picken - dare I say it, a Rhylee West or Rhylee Garcia? They're a bit raw and not quite ready but they both have that little dose of 'bastard' that to be frank I'm not sure our 'A grade' mids have.

I think you've identified the problem but not the solution. That is going to be somewhat problematic and take a paradigm shift in thinking from Beveridge.

Our midfield has clearly been good enough to deal with the mid and lower tier sides of the the competition for years. It's just that more often than not it's been found out against the elite end of the competition. They just have no answer for the dynamism of the likes of Gawn, Petracca and Oliver and if the first round was anything to go by then dynamic midfields that bat deep are the new, new black. Contrary to popular opinion, our midfield is as deep and has the resilience of a spit on a footpath in summer.

If an undersized West and Garcia are the next tier of midfielders that we might look to add a similar refresh to our dower midfield unit then we have got things dreadfully wrong. Although I understand that you are coming from a "bastard" point of view. In my view both are at very long odds to make it as regular mids, let alone do anything about teams going on a 17 possession 5 goal arse tear against us. As Melbourne in particular is want to do!

This is why I spent a good part of the post season banging on about how much Dunkleys departure was going to expose our midfield. Sure, he was as one paced as the rest of the starting mids and was part of the problem, but he along with Libba could be relied upon to go over the top of the trench first.

This side could do with a Matt Boyd/Dan Cross type, but aside from Libba there just isn't one apparent on the list.

Centre Bounce Attendances.

WB 29 - T.English 27, T.Liberatore 21, M.Bontempelli 20, J.Macrae 18, B.Smith 16, A. Treloar 12, R.Lobb 1 & S.Darcy 1

If you discount the three ruckmen, we rotated only five players through the centre bounce.

We're still waiting on the Bombers, Hawks, Dockers and Saints CBA figures, but so far that is the fewest of any team in round one.

So much for us having a stacked midfield.

It would seem that the coaches just don't have faith in the utility types to be relied upon to spend minutes rotating through the middle to give the team a point of difference.

Why we don't shake things up rotate the likes of Richards and Dale with their pace and foot skills through the middle of the ground just staggers me.

I can imagine Simon Goodwin quoting the Duke of Wellington to his players after the game saying "They came on in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way."

....and they all had a good laugh.

 

[St 07]

Almost forgot: love you Johnson, but he and Mooney immediately scrounging to protect Pickett on the broadcast with "that's just a one week because Smith's okay yada yada" was extremely disappointing.

Respect the MRP to make the right decision. Maybe he's trying too hard to be impartial. To be impartial, you can just not comment.

Really, really disappointing. Boys club syndrome running wild.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Funny how we lose our bundle after any biff. Caleb turfing Gawn into the ground, the dust up v. Freo and tonight after that dirty dog Pickett cleaned up Baz.

Thats actually incredible...

The truly frightening thing about tonights disastrous result is the stark difference apparent between how the most impressive teams thus far have been compared to us. The obvious difference is how those teams run carry and transition the ball with numbers in support. Compared to the haphazard and slow way we now do. I made mention of this after the Collingwood game and have a sinking feeling that we have misread where the game may be heading by doubling down and going tall.

I'm not sure you can say the game is moving in a different direction. There is still room within the AFL for different styles and tactics to work. However, we have a game plan that is either not suited to the personnel we have or they are incapable of executing that game plan (i suspect it is the former).