Mega Thread Draft Talk Part 1

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

They wont offer that for him.....

Jack is a big name player.... Thats what GWS WANT. Foley is worth more to us then he is too GWS and his value due to injuries has dropped. It would be like trying to sell your car with four flat tyres and no brakes.

Im not saying thats the whole deal. I said package him and Deledio for first 2 picks plus pick 15 and 28. They would want Deledio and DO want Deledio. Lids manager has said so.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

"no reason"???? have I not explained myself 200 times already??????. GWS right now represents an opportunity that will not came again. There are 4 picks available over 2 years that would allow us to get quality young players.
GWS own those picks but cant use them.... but they can auction them off to the highest bidder. If we want these picks we will have offer something VERY good. Jack Riewoldt would surely get us 2 of those picks. Maybe even the first 2 picks. This would allow us to get 2 elite 17 year olds that could well be top 5 picks in a normal draft and on a side note Ablett was not even worth 2 top 5 picks.


IS THIS TOO HARD to understand????? FFS.

Newsflash!!!! What makes you think these minidraft picks are the be all and all !!!

For example, Whitfield looks smart but he is light and is not a certainty, Omera is 182cm and from the sound of things nothing exta ordinary!!!!

These guys are no certainties !!


Lids is not as valuable as JR, if you think he is you are kidding yourself!! Lids has a lot going for him but JR is a rare breed of forward. Simply trading JR soley for a couple of extra mids which can be drafted in later years is utter madness!!!!

The only reason you would trade JR to GWS would be on the backend of multiple trades to GWS to transfer our list to a younger profile which can develop and be built more effectively in the next 6 years. JR is the main target GWS would want not Lids. Sheedy is not a fool!!!!, When he did the trades to Freo he chased Lloyd a forward not a mid and his players always had the height advantage with rucks. mids etc.. Sheedy is a marketing man but he isn't an idiot in valuing players and recruiting players that are value.

You sound like the kind of person that would have picked bling over Franklin!!!

 

[santa claws]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

just a question or three.
how many elite players do we have.
how many very good players do we have
how many good or at least consistent afl standard players do we have.

the answer is very few of any of these.

with so few decent players i find it absolutely laughable that people want to go out and trade one of these actually decent players a young one at that. bloody hell people the idea is to actually build on these types of players, not decrease the number and with no guarantee of replacing him with anything better, what a joke that is the way to tread water or more likely go backwards.

the real issue behind all this is peoples lack of patience and willingness to go thru the logical youth process that will likely mean another yr or two of poor performances.

ffs people lets build on what decent players we have. lets attempt to get more quality with our 1st and second nd picks.
if we want some experience use some picks later in the nd. target players who are proven big bodied in the minor leagues. take a mature player in the psd.
rookie as many kids as we can in the hope of maybe finding a player and if we get real lucky maybe two.
lets go thru the processes we have begun. we still need to clean out we still need to embrace the early rounds of the draft and we do need to find a few of those hidden gems floating around in the minor leagues.
the truth of the matter is we are in no position to trade for early picks or for quality players. and the reasons are so obvious.

what is probably the major weakness in the list apart from quality its depth and people rather than attempt to build on what decent players we have want to go backwards.

seems to me people just dont grasp the fact that we can build the list with both early picks and mature players who cost little. they also refuse to grasp the time frame and what a lack of mature big bodies does to a team.

forget about trading away some of our best young players and ffs forget about trading away our early picks for players lets just bite the bullet use our nd picks wisely if possible.
target some decent mature players, and i cant say this loud enough WHO COME CHEAP PSD OR LATE ND, AND are up to a minimum standard in fact an upgrade on those mature ones we delist.
players who will protect take most of the physical brunt while our kids develop players who actually raise the overall standard. they dont neccesarily have to be long term players but they have to be players who serve a purpose and perform a role for now.

why use late draft picks or a psd pick on mature players from othe leagues well we can use pick 60 or pic 70 etc on a kid in a shallow draft.what are the odds of success not to say id be unhappy if we used late nd picks on kids.
lets also not forget the idea is to actually raise the over all standard of the list. this means we may delist a dud take your pick there is heaps to choose from, we may replace him with a average player who in turn needs replacing in two yrs time for hopefully an up to standard player. no one here wants to acknowledge this but imo this is what happens with late picks in the main. the trick with late picks is not neccesarily finding a long term very good player but finding an actual improvement on the player he replaces,he may only be a two or three yr player.an example would be nason or webberley both mature taken very late both nothing out of the box but both hhave better skills both do things okay and they replaced players like jon and raines who lack these things,now we have to look to replace webberley and nason with upgrades raising the bar again. this is list improvement its gradual and slow and obviously too slow for far to many impatient supporters.

 

[turtle27]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Agree Claws, fortunately the club will not be thinking along the same lines as nut. Trading Jack is just ludicrous thinking.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

just a question or three.
how many elite players do we have.
how many very good players do we have
how many good or at least consistent afl standard players do we have.

the answer is very few of any of these.

with so few decent players i find it absolutely laughable that people want to go out and trade one of these actually decent players a young one at that. bloody hell people the idea is to actually build on these types of players, not decrease the number and with no guarantee of replacing him with anything better, what a joke that is the way to tread water or more likely go backwards.

the real issue behind all this is peoples lack of patience and willingness to go thru the logical youth process that will likely mean another yr or two of poor performances.

ffs people lets build on what decent players we have. lets attempt to get more quality with our 1st and second nd picks.
if we want some experience use some picks later in the nd. target players who are proven big bodied in the minor leagues. take a mature player in the psd.
rookie as many kids as we can in the hope of maybe finding a player and if we get real lucky maybe two.
lets go thru the processes we have begun. we still need to clean out we still need to embrace the early rounds of the draft and we do need to find a few of those hidden gems floating around in the minor leagues.
the truth of the matter is we are in no position to trade for early picks or for quality players. and the reasons are so obvious.

what is probably the major weakness in the list apart from quality its depth and people rather than attempt to build on what decent players we have want to go backwards.

seems to me people just dont grasp the fact that we can build the list with both early picks and mature players who cost little. they also refuse to grasp the time frame and what a lack of mature big bodies does to a team.

forget about trading away some of our best young players and ffs forget about trading away our early picks for players lets just bite the bullet use our nd picks wisely if possible.
target some decent mature players, and i cant say this loud enough WHO COME CHEAP PSD OR LATE ND, AND are up to a minimum standard in fact an upgrade on those mature ones we delist.
players who will protect take most of the physical brunt while our kids develop players who actually raise the overall standard. they dont neccesarily have to be long term players but they have to be players who serve a purpose and perform a role for now.

why use late draft picks or a psd pick on mature players from othe leagues well we can use pick 60 or pic 70 etc on a kid in a shallow draft.what are the odds of success not to say id be unhappy if we used late nd picks on kids.
lets also not forget the idea is to actually raise the over all standard of the list. this means we may delist a dud take your pick there is heaps to choose from, we may replace him with a average player who in turn needs replacing in two yrs time for hopefully an up to standard player. no one here wants to acknowledge this but imo this is what happens with late picks in the main. the trick with late picks is not neccesarily finding a long term very good player but finding an actual improvement on the player he replaces,he may only be a two or three yr player.an example would be nason or webberley both mature taken very late both nothing out of the box but both hhave better skills both do things okay and they replaced players like jon and raines who lack these things,now we have to look to replace webberley and nason with upgrades raising the bar again. this is list improvement its gradual and slow and obviously too slow for far to many impatient supporters.

Santa the lack of patience is we have been going from bottom to 8th for nearly 30 years so something can't be working surely there is a better way.

I agree we shouldn't be trading decent players but attaining more decent players. The problem is if we attain more decent players if it takes too long the decent players like Lids will retire before our premiership window occurs. Thus the argument to dip and get more quality and youth to increase the chance and pace of more quality on our list.


The other thing is , IMO, we do not lack just depth we also lack quality, and like Goddard demonstrated quality in GF scenarios goes a long way.

I just feel you cannot go half hearted if you go this tack by just trading off JR and you certainly cannot give our quality players away for nothing because, as you say the 17 year olds are even less certainties than draft picks!!

 

[delediofan3]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Stupid thinking, trading Riewoldt is just stupid. Coleman medalist, Best and Fairest and All Australian last year.

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

just a question or three.
how many elite players do we have.
how many very good players do we have
how many good or at least consistent afl standard players do we have.

the answer is very few of any of these.

with so few decent players i find it absolutely laughable that people want to go out and trade one of these actually decent players a young one at that. bloody hell people the idea is to actually build on these types of players, not decrease the number and with no guarantee of replacing him with anything better, what a joke that is the way to tread water or more likely go backwards.

Nothing is Guaranteed but the idea is trying to turn 1 into 2 elite players and bolster the midfield with 2 potential top 5 picks... I dont see how this is so "laughable".

the real issue behind all this is peoples lack of patience and willingness to go thru the logical youth process that will likely mean another yr or two of poor performances.

The "real issue" ???? lack of patience. I am suggesting to take 1 step backwards to take two steps forward....

ffs people lets build on what decent players we have. lets attempt to get more quality with our 1st and second nd picks.
if we want some experience use some picks later in the nd. target players who are proven big bodied in the minor leagues. take a mature player in the psd.
rookie as many kids as we can in the hope of maybe finding a player and if we get real lucky maybe two.

In the hope.... sums up our last 32 years.

lets go thru the processes we have begun. we still need to clean out we still need to embrace the early rounds of the draft and we do need to find a few of those hidden gems floating around in the minor leagues.
the truth of the matter is we are in no position to trade for early picks or for quality players. and the reasons are so obvious.

This I agree with.... except that you haven't factored in the huge carot the under 17 draft is.

what is probably the major weakness in the list apart from quality its depth and people rather than attempt to build on what decent players we have want to go backwards.

This is why I am advocating get 2 elite 17 year olds that would be early picks in the "super" draft next season where we would be able to get a few more good draftees...

seems to me people just dont grasp the fact that we can build the list with both early picks and mature players who cost little. they also refuse to grasp the time frame and what a lack of mature big bodies does to a team.
forget about trading away some of our best young players and ffs forget about trading away our early picks for players lets just bite the bullet use our nd picks wisely if possible.

I hope we do too.... all the talk is though we are chasing every ruckman in the land.

target some decent mature players, and i cant say this loud enough WHO COME CHEAP PSD OR LATE ND, AND are up to a minimum standard in fact an upgrade on those mature ones we delist.
players who will protect take most of the physical brunt while our kids develop players who actually raise the overall standard. they dont neccesarily have to be long term players but they have to be players who serve a purpose and perform a role for now.

Do you really think this club is going to do that.... look how they have used Tuck this season!!!

why use late draft picks or a psd pick on mature players from othe leagues well we can use pick 60 or pic 70 etc on a kid in a shallow draft.what are the odds of success not to say id be unhappy if we used late nd picks on kids.
lets also not forget the idea is to actually raise the over all standard of the list. this means we may delist a dud take your pick there is heaps to choose from, we may replace him with a average player who in turn needs replacing in two yrs time for hopefully an up to standard player. no one here wants to acknowledge this but imo this is what happens with late picks in the main. the trick with late picks is not neccesarily finding a long term very good player but finding an actual improvement on the player he replaces,he may only be a two or three yr player.an example would be nason or webberley both mature taken very late both nothing out of the box but both hhave better skills both do things okay and they replaced players like jon and raines who lack these things,now we have to look to replace webberley and nason with upgrades raising the bar again. this is list improvement its gradual and slow and obviously too slow for far to many impatient supporters.

I'm patient but I know that is we want to compete against GWS and the GC in the coming years we will need to compete in the midfield....

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Agree Claws, fortunately the club will not be thinking along the same lines as nut. Trading Jack is just ludicrous thinking.

Thank god the club will go after run of the mill players like Houli and Grigg....

I want to win a flag... to do that we need to have a midfield that will be able to bet the best in the competition.

 

[Damo80]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

This is why I am advocating get 2 elite 17 year olds

My main issue with your argument is that you're assuming we would get 2 picks for JR. We may, but there's so much hype around O'Meara, I wouldn't be surprised if some quality is thrown up by a number of sides. JR would be hard to top, meaning we get O'Meara, but may not get 2 picks.

To a lesser extent, offering JR full stop is ludicrous, but I see your point of view.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Stupid thinking, trading Riewoldt is just stupid. Coleman medalist, Best and Fairest and All Australian last year.

My view

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Just thought I should add that I didn't start this Deledio thing for no reason. There are 2 rumours going around. First one is a Victorian club has offered up a superstar in their team for pick 1 (which i presume is mini-draft as GWS won't give up Patton), 5 and GWS 2nd rounder. A week later its mentioned we have offered Deledio for O'Meara, and pick 5.

That's 2 seperate rumours that fit together. Not to mention GWS are after Deledio confirmed by management. Where there's smoke? I've thrown the Foley one in as someone suggested if we get rid of Deledio we may as well do Foley as well and start from 2006 with Riewoldt. We would effectively trade down from 5 to 15 but gain a 2nd pick. By sounds of it, after the first 3 it evens out. So quality of 5 and 15 may be similar.

Crouch will be better than Foley and will fit our age group nicely. He's quick has fantastic skills and can win his own ball and is bigger than Foley. For those saying Foley is 24 he's actually 26 in a month.

Deledio also available for FA next year and has wanted out before (2009) due to lack of success. Since then we have been 15th, most likely 14th and probably fairly similar next year. What's going to keep him here next year?

I also know we were exploring O'Meara as a possibility.

They would want Lids, Jack, Dusty or Cotch.

 

[Dr Awkward]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Trading JR is one of the stupidist ideas I've ever heard.

He is a gun young KPF who absolutely loves the club and is popular with teammates. What kind of message does that send? What does the club stand for, you can't just trade these players, it's not all a game of chess it's also about emotions and culture.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

In the hope.... sums up our last 32 years.

It also sums up this whole "trade Jack for two 17yo's who will hopefully be good players"

 

[turtle27]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Thank god the club will go after run of the mill players like Houli and Grigg....

I want to win a flag... to do that we need to have a midfield that will be able to bet the best in the competition.

But not kick it to anyone. As I said, ludicrous.

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Does anyone know the rules for mini-draft?

Could we say make a deal with GWS where by we get O'Meara for say Foley, Nahas & compo then trade him back for pick 2, 3 & 4 in mini-draft. We don't lose one of our big 4. We gain 3 good players. But GWS gains O'Meara, Foley and a compo.

 

[Bojangles17]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

seeing as the best we are looking is No 12 selection then using it on trengove is the BEST move. A quick review of recent drafts would suggest that pix beyond top 6 or so really start to waver. if we can secure a player that looks to be every bit a 200 gamer then go for it.

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

seeing as the best we are looking is No 12 selection then using it on trengove is the BEST move. A quick review of recent drafts would suggest that pix beyond top 6 or so really start to waver. if we can secure a player that looks to be every bit a 200 gamer then go for it.

Adelaide will finish above us. They will even be above us by Sunday night.
Plus we never beat them at AAMI so they will end up a game and a half in front of us. So pick 10. We should end up with either (Grigg, Tyson, Hoskin-Elliot, Buntine or Kavanagh) all mids.

 

[Bojangles17]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

is this a strong draft though tigs, how do No 10 mids shape up in recent drafts, I'm no expert but sheesh, the quality really looks to drop off after first 5 or 6

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

is this a strong draft though tigs, how do No 10 mids shape up in recent drafts, I'm no expert but sheesh, the quality really looks to drop off after first 5 or 6

They are the 5 i like outside of knowing GWS will take Patton, Coniglio, Wingard and Longer. Hopefully they also take Elton as a KPF which means one of those 5 will slip. I really doubt we go Trengove. We have Rance, Astbury to come back and Grimes as well. Not saying that's good enough yet but i think taking another key back late in main draft and rookie one and see how they go and not use a first rounder.

 

[Jimmy6019]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Trading JR is one of the stupidist ideas I've ever heard.

He is a gun young KPF who absolutely loves the club and is popular with teammates. What kind of message does that send? What does the club stand for, you can't just trade these players, it's not all a game of chess it's also about emotions and culture.

Heard that Deledio and Foley also love the club and are very popular ... although many on here don't have a problem trading them??? Guess they don't have the same level of mancrush factor as JR.

And don't get me started on culture!!!

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Does anyone know the rules for mini-draft?

Could we say make a deal with GWS where by we get O'Meara for say Foley, Nahas & compo then trade him back for pick 2, 3 & 4 in mini-draft. We don't lose one of our big 4. We gain 3 good players. But GWS gains O'Meara, Foley and a compo.

Can't trade O'Meara since he will be a 17yo, and not available to play next year. Not a tradeable commodity so to speak.

 

[Delids]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

We will draft a skinny half back
But we will be told that they are a sensation

 

[tigs2010]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

Can't trade O'Meara since he will be a 17yo, and not available to play next year. Not a tradeable commodity so to speak.

GWS could always ask the AFL if its ok. Sure the deal would be approved then. Just look at the Brennan deal last year. Was dodgy as anything.

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

But not kick it to anyone. As I said, ludicrous.

Vickory....Griffith.... and we have plenty of time to find another key forward.

 

[nut]

Re: What will we do with our 1st round draft pick?

GWS could always ask the AFL if its ok. Sure the deal would be approved then. Just look at the Brennan deal last year. Was dodgy as anything.

How was it dodgy??? It was smart. They created a draft pick out of thin air...