Re: drafting
Don't get sucked in amcre. Of course Jack's a key forward.
Don't get sucked in amcre. Of course Jack's a key forward.
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Mega Thread Draft Talk Part 1
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Re: drafting
I agree.
I have really liked the look of Post back there. He has been getting a fist in on most contests and taking alot of grabs. He is also a decent field kick. I think he is ahead of Astbury for the 2nd KPD. Grimes is clearly going to be a gun third tall imo.
Batchelor has had an excellent first year. Houli has been very good off the HBF with run. Matt Dea has shown some promise. Newman is around as well as Connors.
I think we have enough HBF's at least without including Deledio.
Grimes replaces Moore as third tall. Rance is our number 1 FB. Post and Astbury can fight it out for the 2nd KPD spot.
If we add to our midfield with quality then our backline will look better straight away.
I agree.
I have really liked the look of Post back there. He has been getting a fist in on most contests and taking alot of grabs. He is also a decent field kick. I think he is ahead of Astbury for the 2nd KPD. Grimes is clearly going to be a gun third tall imo.
Batchelor has had an excellent first year. Houli has been very good off the HBF with run. Matt Dea has shown some promise. Newman is around as well as Connors.
I think we have enough HBF's at least without including Deledio.
Grimes replaces Moore as third tall. Rance is our number 1 FB. Post and Astbury can fight it out for the 2nd KPD spot.
If we add to our midfield with quality then our backline will look better straight away.
- Thread starter
- #403
Re: drafting
I'd be happy for Post to make CHB his own. That way we can try Astbury forward. He was recruited as a forward, and apparently is an elite kick. Call Astbury the FF and Jack the 3rd tall if you like, but whatever you want to label each, it would be nice if he could be that foil for JR, leading strong out of the goal square.
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Re: drafting
Disagree, Houli can be found wanting on taller forwards matchup wise and we don't have any anyone with Lids speed to brake the lines. We really need a classy solid half banker flanker to support Batchelors sure kicking and toughness in a GF in 6 years time or so.Remember Newman will be retired by then.
Batchelor and Grimes are definites but our backline is far from complete. Astbury and Post may make it but Post needs to build his body and both look more like utility than key positional posts atm, with Astbury more likely a swingman and Post back up ruck . Post and Astbury are very much in development mode atm in the project catgeory IMO.
If you look at midfielders on the phantom drafts, the only mids at our pick are very much iffy and speculative with drawbacks. We can't have drawbacks in a GF scenario particularly against the likes of GWS and GC!!!!
We very much need quality atm injected and we have 5 years to chase the require mids. Probably better chasing mids via 17 year olds or 2012 to be fair IMO
Disagree, Houli can be found wanting on taller forwards matchup wise and we don't have any anyone with Lids speed to brake the lines. We really need a classy solid half banker flanker to support Batchelors sure kicking and toughness in a GF in 6 years time or so.Remember Newman will be retired by then.
Batchelor and Grimes are definites but our backline is far from complete. Astbury and Post may make it but Post needs to build his body and both look more like utility than key positional posts atm, with Astbury more likely a swingman and Post back up ruck . Post and Astbury are very much in development mode atm in the project catgeory IMO.
If you look at midfielders on the phantom drafts, the only mids at our pick are very much iffy and speculative with drawbacks. We can't have drawbacks in a GF scenario particularly against the likes of GWS and GC!!!!
We very much need quality atm injected and we have 5 years to chase the require mids. Probably better chasing mids via 17 year olds or 2012 to be fair IMO
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tigs2010
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Re: drafting
Yep maybe draft another late just in case but don't trade a high pick for one. Only way we find out if they are any good is by playing them. Rance, Post, Grimes next year. I think Moore is done. Dea needs more game time. Batchelor already looks settled. Newman has time left and Connors and Houli can also play his spot in the future.
And Magic what are you talking about? Jack isnt a great FF? THats because he's 22. He is the BEST FF going around in 2010/11. Franklin would be best CHF. Cloke 2nd. Do you think Dawes is better? Obviously its not about height otherwise Jack would be the 3rd tall as Griff and Vicks are bigger. Fact is Jack is the key number 1 forward. The rest of the post i didnt understand.
Yep maybe draft another late just in case but don't trade a high pick for one. Only way we find out if they are any good is by playing them. Rance, Post, Grimes next year. I think Moore is done. Dea needs more game time. Batchelor already looks settled. Newman has time left and Connors and Houli can also play his spot in the future.
And Magic what are you talking about? Jack isnt a great FF? THats because he's 22. He is the BEST FF going around in 2010/11. Franklin would be best CHF. Cloke 2nd. Do you think Dawes is better? Obviously its not about height otherwise Jack would be the 3rd tall as Griff and Vicks are bigger. Fact is Jack is the key number 1 forward. The rest of the post i didnt understand.
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Re: drafting
Dawes is not better than Jack but he is a different player. JR is like an elite version of a Jack Darling. How old was Lockett before his first 100 goals. JR is elite but he is an elite Third tall forward , we clearly need a full forward. Frankly I woudn't mind having a crack for the tassie full forward if he lives up to the hype but I haven't seen him yet so he might be a dud.
Tiger fans really must stop accepting this mediocrity . We really should be shaping up to belt the likes of Collingwood not run with the likes of a mid range Freo or Bulldogs teams.
We are not here to be bridesmaids!!! We are here to build a champion team that will crush our opposition opponents like GC and GWS in a GF!!!!
Dawes is not better than Jack but he is a different player. JR is like an elite version of a Jack Darling. How old was Lockett before his first 100 goals. JR is elite but he is an elite Third tall forward , we clearly need a full forward. Frankly I woudn't mind having a crack for the tassie full forward if he lives up to the hype but I haven't seen him yet so he might be a dud.
Tiger fans really must stop accepting this mediocrity . We really should be shaping up to belt the likes of Collingwood not run with the likes of a mid range Freo or Bulldogs teams.
We are not here to be bridesmaids!!! We are here to build a champion team that will crush our opposition opponents like GC and GWS in a GF!!!!
- Thread starter
- #407
Re: drafting
Jack is an elite tall forward, whichever way you look at it, and I agree that we're probably at least one tall forward short still. I post this thought a lot, but I still see the possibility of Astbury being a key forward. He hasn't really had the chance as yet, instead having to plug holes in an injury/form ravaged defence, but with stocks finally looking up down back, here's the chance for him to return to the forward line and stake his claims on a permanent spot. In an ideal world (barring injury and form issues), you end up with Astbury, JR, Griff and Vickery as four tall forwards posing all sorts of headaches for opposition defences.
Not sure I agree with you, however I think it's all semantics TBH. There's good reason that in this modern game that terms like "full forward", "rover", "back pocket" are near obsolete and have been replaced with "key forward", "inside/outside mid" etc. The game is different, and roles and positions aren't so clearly defined as in previous era's.
Jack is an elite tall forward, whichever way you look at it, and I agree that we're probably at least one tall forward short still. I post this thought a lot, but I still see the possibility of Astbury being a key forward. He hasn't really had the chance as yet, instead having to plug holes in an injury/form ravaged defence, but with stocks finally looking up down back, here's the chance for him to return to the forward line and stake his claims on a permanent spot. In an ideal world (barring injury and form issues), you end up with Astbury, JR, Griff and Vickery as four tall forwards posing all sorts of headaches for opposition defences.
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Re: drafting
The reason I think we should consider the tassie FF, I haven't seen him (he may be a dud) he is reported to be same height as JR 193. with elite pace and elite attributes based on web commentary.
This guy could lead up leaving Jr in the square with JR leading doubling back to square, We know how good JR is one on one and his agility for size is sublime which allows hiim to play well on the ground for his height.
This guy other tassie guys likewise is not too tall which would allow Griff to play CHF and Vick pinch hit up forward at times. If we got someone like Butcher it would be harder to work with the other guys because the forward line would be too top heavy in terms of height and imobility. Having said this I have not seen the tassie guy and he may be blown out of proportions
The reason I think we should consider the tassie FF, I haven't seen him (he may be a dud) he is reported to be same height as JR 193. with elite pace and elite attributes based on web commentary.
This guy could lead up leaving Jr in the square with JR leading doubling back to square, We know how good JR is one on one and his agility for size is sublime which allows hiim to play well on the ground for his height.
This guy other tassie guys likewise is not too tall which would allow Griff to play CHF and Vick pinch hit up forward at times. If we got someone like Butcher it would be harder to work with the other guys because the forward line would be too top heavy in terms of height and imobility. Having said this I have not seen the tassie guy and he may be blown out of proportions
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Re: drafting
Are u trying to say JR isn't good enough to be FF because he hasn't kicked 100 goals? Seriously? How many players have kicked 100 goals in a year in today's game? Franklin is the only one. And since then hasn't come close.
Why don't we trade our team for the All-Australian one to make sure we win a premiership?
Are u trying to say JR isn't good enough to be FF because he hasn't kicked 100 goals? Seriously? How many players have kicked 100 goals in a year in today's game? Franklin is the only one. And since then hasn't come close.
Why don't we trade our team for the All-Australian one to make sure we win a premiership?
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Re: drafting
What I am saying is our current forward line is not good enough to kick 120 points is a GF scenario. Now I know we might not have to like a Sydney but the politics and the rules of the game have changed, Also we will be up against the likes of a GC or GWS defense which will be similar to a Geelong style defense. The analogy is Lockett kicks bags against anyone, Frawley has shown JR is not an impossible match-up. We need to create a forward iine that becomes as impossible to matchup one as possible as well as our midfield backline etc... Our job is to smash the opposition, we are Tigers, no mercy!!!!! Collingwood are juveniles compared to what we should be dishing up to oppositions in 5 years time!!
So we are here to put our attack to the test (hypothetically) in 5 years versus Geelong a few years back.
Question would JR kick 5 goals on Scarlett. I would have thought not. Would he kick 3 ??? Maybe not. We know he would kick 4 though as a third tall IMO. And where are our other goals coming from, Martin yes, Vickery chipping in yes, Griff maybe if he plays , Lids possibly and where are our others???? You see what I mean . We need to build our forward line around JR and JR is intrinsically a elite third deep tall forward who can also lead up.
Jack is a star, he will be in our side going forward. We have to use him as best possible. The point is like Richo, Neitz, G Ablett senior , just because you don't have a good FF is no reason to play players that are better in other positions at FF when you are trying to win a premiership. Sure some forwards do the Sav Roccas and kick goals against weak defenses like Butcher on the weekend, but remember , we are not Carlton, we are trying to win a premiership and go all the way which means our forward line cannot be compromised against the likes of GWS and GC and cannot be impotent against the best defenses.
What does RFC not have??? We do not have an elite leading forward, and we do not have elite small forward and half forward flankers except for Martin/lids. We are still trying to find a CHF as well So we need to work on this to get the goal output we need against a GF style defenses. The tassie FF might be the leading forward we need to increase our scoring output against GF defenses who can complement JR and the rest of our forward line going forward!!! Then again he might not. All i am saying is I have those style of players on the radar as I believe it is what RFC needs to heighten the brilliance and impact of JR and other forwards.
Remember, for premiership teams it is about team output , not the individual!!
What I am saying is our current forward line is not good enough to kick 120 points is a GF scenario. Now I know we might not have to like a Sydney but the politics and the rules of the game have changed, Also we will be up against the likes of a GC or GWS defense which will be similar to a Geelong style defense. The analogy is Lockett kicks bags against anyone, Frawley has shown JR is not an impossible match-up. We need to create a forward iine that becomes as impossible to matchup one as possible as well as our midfield backline etc... Our job is to smash the opposition, we are Tigers, no mercy!!!!! Collingwood are juveniles compared to what we should be dishing up to oppositions in 5 years time!!
So we are here to put our attack to the test (hypothetically) in 5 years versus Geelong a few years back.
Question would JR kick 5 goals on Scarlett. I would have thought not. Would he kick 3 ??? Maybe not. We know he would kick 4 though as a third tall IMO. And where are our other goals coming from, Martin yes, Vickery chipping in yes, Griff maybe if he plays , Lids possibly and where are our others???? You see what I mean . We need to build our forward line around JR and JR is intrinsically a elite third deep tall forward who can also lead up.
Jack is a star, he will be in our side going forward. We have to use him as best possible. The point is like Richo, Neitz, G Ablett senior , just because you don't have a good FF is no reason to play players that are better in other positions at FF when you are trying to win a premiership. Sure some forwards do the Sav Roccas and kick goals against weak defenses like Butcher on the weekend, but remember , we are not Carlton, we are trying to win a premiership and go all the way which means our forward line cannot be compromised against the likes of GWS and GC and cannot be impotent against the best defenses.
What does RFC not have??? We do not have an elite leading forward, and we do not have elite small forward and half forward flankers except for Martin/lids. We are still trying to find a CHF as well So we need to work on this to get the goal output we need against a GF style defenses. The tassie FF might be the leading forward we need to increase our scoring output against GF defenses who can complement JR and the rest of our forward line going forward!!! Then again he might not. All i am saying is I have those style of players on the radar as I believe it is what RFC needs to heighten the brilliance and impact of JR and other forwards.
Remember, for premiership teams it is about team output , not the individual!!
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Re: drafting
How many grand final teams kick 120 pts? Most Grand finals struggle to kick more than 12 goals each side.
Good midfields and backlines win grand finals.
Vickery/Riewoldt in 3-5 years combined with another tall Griff/Astbury and then some quality smalls plus resting mids like Martin will be good enough if the midfield wins.
Got to develop a strong backline and midfield and that will take us where we need to go.
What you are talking about is delivering the perfect side. No team has the perfect side not even Geelong (average forward line), Hawks of 08 (average backline), West Coast of a few years ago barely had a forward line.
How many grand final teams kick 120 pts? Most Grand finals struggle to kick more than 12 goals each side.
Good midfields and backlines win grand finals.
Vickery/Riewoldt in 3-5 years combined with another tall Griff/Astbury and then some quality smalls plus resting mids like Martin will be good enough if the midfield wins.
Got to develop a strong backline and midfield and that will take us where we need to go.
What you are talking about is delivering the perfect side. No team has the perfect side not even Geelong (average forward line), Hawks of 08 (average backline), West Coast of a few years ago barely had a forward line.
tigs2010
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Re: drafting
We can score 120 and have quite a few times. Having said that we may not need to. All that is needed is to outscore the other team. Riewoldt/Vickery/hopefully Griff is a very potent tall forward combo. Throw Morton in there a resting mid like Dusty/Cotch/Lids and a genuine crumber with real x-factor (I hope we take Tipungwuti in the draft) If we build our midfield up with more quality/depth (hence i said trade for O'Meara and draft a couple this year too) and all of a sudden the ball is constantly in our forward line. A backline of Rance, Grimes, Post/Astbury and Dea, Houli/Newman, Batchelor should limit sides when they develop a bit more as well.
Whats to say Geelong wouldnt put Scarlett on JR anyway even if we played a different FF and Jack in a pocket? Jack is our best tall forward and he will be given best defender every time.
We can score 120 and have quite a few times. Having said that we may not need to. All that is needed is to outscore the other team. Riewoldt/Vickery/hopefully Griff is a very potent tall forward combo. Throw Morton in there a resting mid like Dusty/Cotch/Lids and a genuine crumber with real x-factor (I hope we take Tipungwuti in the draft) If we build our midfield up with more quality/depth (hence i said trade for O'Meara and draft a couple this year too) and all of a sudden the ball is constantly in our forward line. A backline of Rance, Grimes, Post/Astbury and Dea, Houli/Newman, Batchelor should limit sides when they develop a bit more as well.
Whats to say Geelong wouldnt put Scarlett on JR anyway even if we played a different FF and Jack in a pocket? Jack is our best tall forward and he will be given best defender every time.
tigs2010
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Re: drafting
Even Collingwood have a heap of scrubs that are just filling roles outside their stars. Difference is with those stars around them they look like champions.
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Re: drafting
The point is, if the draftees let you develop your forward iine you develop your forward line. if the draftees let you develop your backline you develop your backline etc.
On the Hawks , 2008 was a fluke and poor coaching on behalf of Geelong. If the Hawks win in 2012 that will be a proper premiership build!!
Sydney and WC premierships again was poor coaching on behalf of Geelong.
On Geelongs forward line, at their peak against Port you are underplaying them IMO. Chapman, Johnson etc,, are elite, while those others were very solid at worst!!
The point is, if the draftees let you develop your forward iine you develop your forward line. if the draftees let you develop your backline you develop your backline etc.
On the Hawks , 2008 was a fluke and poor coaching on behalf of Geelong. If the Hawks win in 2012 that will be a proper premiership build!!
Sydney and WC premierships again was poor coaching on behalf of Geelong.
On Geelongs forward line, at their peak against Port you are underplaying them IMO. Chapman, Johnson etc,, are elite, while those others were very solid at worst!!
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Re: drafting
Scarlett stays in the centre backline for a reason as part of their backline structure which is not as fluid as some may suggest.
You talk about hope but he have to make things happen and create opportunties.
I havent seen this hopeful draftee you speak of but I believe he is down the order for a reason and his height at face value will be a detriment. He might be special, who knows, all I am saying is I am not getting excited atm regarding premiership aspirations short term!!
The backline you speak of also has limitations. The when you speak of for some is more like if.
Point is you appear to think if we build up to a top 8 level that will win a premiership with luck. Just like the bulldogs have shown now on the downer, it aint going to happen frankly!!
Quality doesn't come with the drop of a hat!!
Scarlett stays in the centre backline for a reason as part of their backline structure which is not as fluid as some may suggest.
You talk about hope but he have to make things happen and create opportunties.
I havent seen this hopeful draftee you speak of but I believe he is down the order for a reason and his height at face value will be a detriment. He might be special, who knows, all I am saying is I am not getting excited atm regarding premiership aspirations short term!!
The backline you speak of also has limitations. The when you speak of for some is more like if.
Point is you appear to think if we build up to a top 8 level that will win a premiership with luck. Just like the bulldogs have shown now on the downer, it aint going to happen frankly!!
Quality doesn't come with the drop of a hat!!
- Jun 21, 2010
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Re: drafting
Jeezus you talk some rubbish Mr Magic.
Jeezus you talk some rubbish Mr Magic.
Re: drafting
Magic your logic about needing a leading forward is on the money I think. Our forwards don't lead enough and aren't overly dangerous on the lead. That being said I suspect Griffiths has the attributes to be the leading FF, giving JR licence to do whatever he wants and Vickery can play CHF.
Big Ty is playing extremely good footy at the moment. Very creative player and will only improve ah his body grows stronger and his tank gets bigger and Griffiths is a speed machine. Should be unstoppable on the lead and can also put on quality defensive pressure. Barring injury I think our tall forwards are set given time to develop.
Time to add quality and depth to the running brigade and draft a tall back for development.
Magic your logic about needing a leading forward is on the money I think. Our forwards don't lead enough and aren't overly dangerous on the lead. That being said I suspect Griffiths has the attributes to be the leading FF, giving JR licence to do whatever he wants and Vickery can play CHF.
Big Ty is playing extremely good footy at the moment. Very creative player and will only improve ah his body grows stronger and his tank gets bigger and Griffiths is a speed machine. Should be unstoppable on the lead and can also put on quality defensive pressure. Barring injury I think our tall forwards are set given time to develop.
Time to add quality and depth to the running brigade and draft a tall back for development.
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Re: drafting
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. You have to remember Collingwood are player in a weak competition dip with 2 new sides diluting talent, Geelong at the end of their era and Hawks with injuries to their backline. Collingwood also have the edge on crowd, age and fitness issues which creates an anomoly not to mention new game plan via forward press. RFC will not be able to do something similar against the likes of GC and GWS in years to come
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. You have to remember Collingwood are player in a weak competition dip with 2 new sides diluting talent, Geelong at the end of their era and Hawks with injuries to their backline. Collingwood also have the edge on crowd, age and fitness issues which creates an anomoly not to mention new game plan via forward press. RFC will not be able to do something similar against the likes of GC and GWS in years to come
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Re: drafting
The draftee im speaking of is a crumbing forward. Special talent. Im talking a 4th rounder not a 1st. Griffiths is tipped to be our CHF. If not we can use Astbury. Of course its hope. We also HOPE that Martin and Cotchin etc continue to develop. Do u watch Geelong play? Taylor/Lonergan often play CHB/FB and Scarlett plays loose. However, if JR isn't FF not that its really a set position if u watch them play, Scarlett is still allowed to match up on him. We will likely have 3 talls they have 3 talls down back and they will match up accordingly regardless of whether Riewoldt starts with his feet in the goal square or more towards the pocket.
Im not hoping to build a top 8 side. Im even happy for us to trade for the mini-draft which may mean going backwards for 1 year. O'Meara or even Crouch if he is somewhere near the level of O'Meara would be very handy additions. Crouch sounds like a bigger, more skilled mid than Foley. Draft a couple more mids this year. The point myself and amcre are making is that we can't have a Brownlow medallist in every position. It doesn't happen that way.
Scarlett stays in the centre backline for a reason as part of their backline structure which is not as fluid as some may suggest.
You talk about hope but he have to make things happen and create opportunties.
I havent seen this hopeful draftee you speak of but I believe he is down the order for a reason and his height at face value will be a detriment. He might be special, who knows, all I am saying is I am not getting excited atm regarding premiership aspirations short term!!
The backline you speak of also has limitations. The when you speak of for some is more like if.
Point is you appear to think if we build up to a top 8 level that will win a premiership with luck. Just like the bulldogs have shown now on the downer, it aint going to happen frankly!!
Quality doesn't come with the drop of a hat!!
The draftee im speaking of is a crumbing forward. Special talent. Im talking a 4th rounder not a 1st. Griffiths is tipped to be our CHF. If not we can use Astbury. Of course its hope. We also HOPE that Martin and Cotchin etc continue to develop. Do u watch Geelong play? Taylor/Lonergan often play CHB/FB and Scarlett plays loose. However, if JR isn't FF not that its really a set position if u watch them play, Scarlett is still allowed to match up on him. We will likely have 3 talls they have 3 talls down back and they will match up accordingly regardless of whether Riewoldt starts with his feet in the goal square or more towards the pocket.
Im not hoping to build a top 8 side. Im even happy for us to trade for the mini-draft which may mean going backwards for 1 year. O'Meara or even Crouch if he is somewhere near the level of O'Meara would be very handy additions. Crouch sounds like a bigger, more skilled mid than Foley. Draft a couple more mids this year. The point myself and amcre are making is that we can't have a Brownlow medallist in every position. It doesn't happen that way.
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Re: drafting
I like Ty I just think, he will have to play a ruck/forward role. He might like to believe it in a permanent forward role, but, based on his physical attributes it is unrealistic against top line opposition in a GF/finals situation IMO. Griff is the real wildcard!! His shoulders are a problem and given his height he probably would have to play up the ground suiting his long kicking. I say this because I like JR deep and JR with Griff would be too big IMO together. The Tassie guy creates more flexibility IMO and if he leads out he will give JR space.
If the Tassie guy leads up as a decoy sometimes JR can double back into the square creating havoc while Griff and or Vickery have the opportunity to float deep forward from up the ground to create a contest as well in a quick inside 50 situation. At the same time the Tassie guy and definitely JR, due to height agility combo could support the small forwards so the forward line would have extreme marking power without detracting ground level skills complemented by our mids moving up the ground!!
Anyway the tassie guy might not be good enough but that is the way I am seeing our forward line develop being most effective going forward right or wrong!!
I like Ty I just think, he will have to play a ruck/forward role. He might like to believe it in a permanent forward role, but, based on his physical attributes it is unrealistic against top line opposition in a GF/finals situation IMO. Griff is the real wildcard!! His shoulders are a problem and given his height he probably would have to play up the ground suiting his long kicking. I say this because I like JR deep and JR with Griff would be too big IMO together. The Tassie guy creates more flexibility IMO and if he leads out he will give JR space.
If the Tassie guy leads up as a decoy sometimes JR can double back into the square creating havoc while Griff and or Vickery have the opportunity to float deep forward from up the ground to create a contest as well in a quick inside 50 situation. At the same time the Tassie guy and definitely JR, due to height agility combo could support the small forwards so the forward line would have extreme marking power without detracting ground level skills complemented by our mids moving up the ground!!
Anyway the tassie guy might not be good enough but that is the way I am seeing our forward line develop being most effective going forward right or wrong!!
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Re: drafting
It is true we can't have a Brownlow medalist in every position. JR will not win a Charlie btw IMO. We can't be carrying too many M Athorns into GF's either.
How many all australians past and future was in the Geelong 2007 side considering they should have won in 2005/2006 and 2008. In the current Hawthorn team how much quality is there. I think you will find Hawthorn has very high quality apart from some young stars that will be aa going forward!!
What I am talking about is very good players. We can't have average to very poor players in a GF finals team and expect to win.
But it is not about the individual as well, it is about how the players gel as a team. I think the tassie guy could be a great fit but, as I have said, he may not be good enough. I will have a look at his highlights package on the web prior to the web and see what he can bring!!
It is true we can't have a Brownlow medalist in every position. JR will not win a Charlie btw IMO. We can't be carrying too many M Athorns into GF's either.
How many all australians past and future was in the Geelong 2007 side considering they should have won in 2005/2006 and 2008. In the current Hawthorn team how much quality is there. I think you will find Hawthorn has very high quality apart from some young stars that will be aa going forward!!
What I am talking about is very good players. We can't have average to very poor players in a GF finals team and expect to win.
But it is not about the individual as well, it is about how the players gel as a team. I think the tassie guy could be a great fit but, as I have said, he may not be good enough. I will have a look at his highlights package on the web prior to the web and see what he can bring!!
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Re: drafting
We have some very good quality. Riewoldt being one of them.
If majority of our players develop and providing we keep Foley and don't go for mini-draft. We should have as quality players. Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Conca, Vickery, Rance, Houli, Griffiths, Grimes, Batchelor, Newman and Foley. I would trade Edwards for Port's second rounder to hopefully pick up Bolger the ruckman to play in tandem with Vicks. Take Waldhuter 2nd round like Toady did in mock draft as an inside mid (who i believe will be quality) and depending on pick we have take elliot kavanagh if he slides to pick 10 or a Crozier if we have a later pick as he is a super talent.
Next year we add a first, a second and a compo pick to our stocks. An inside mid and an outside mid and maybe a key forward to be added.
That's 6 new players and if 5 of them are genuine a or b grade quality we then have 18 a/b grade quality players. Add the potential of Astbury or Post to play CHB. Dea as a lock down defender certainly has potential. That gives us 20 players. 2013/14 first rounders and we are set. Add a FA as well. And any of our 2nd/3rd rounders as depth. Like i said Tipungwuti is a potential star that should last till late. Here is a package from his game against WA http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgR6D3-cNfg&feature=fvwrel He is the second player after O'Meara in the video who as much as i hope we trade for i know we won't.
EDIT: Forgot to add Morton to the mix. He is a B+ level player if he can get his head in a good space. His marking ability as a wing or resting forward is very good.
We have some very good quality. Riewoldt being one of them.
If majority of our players develop and providing we keep Foley and don't go for mini-draft. We should have as quality players. Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Conca, Vickery, Rance, Houli, Griffiths, Grimes, Batchelor, Newman and Foley. I would trade Edwards for Port's second rounder to hopefully pick up Bolger the ruckman to play in tandem with Vicks. Take Waldhuter 2nd round like Toady did in mock draft as an inside mid (who i believe will be quality) and depending on pick we have take elliot kavanagh if he slides to pick 10 or a Crozier if we have a later pick as he is a super talent.
Next year we add a first, a second and a compo pick to our stocks. An inside mid and an outside mid and maybe a key forward to be added.
That's 6 new players and if 5 of them are genuine a or b grade quality we then have 18 a/b grade quality players. Add the potential of Astbury or Post to play CHB. Dea as a lock down defender certainly has potential. That gives us 20 players. 2013/14 first rounders and we are set. Add a FA as well. And any of our 2nd/3rd rounders as depth. Like i said Tipungwuti is a potential star that should last till late. Here is a package from his game against WA http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgR6D3-cNfg&feature=fvwrel He is the second player after O'Meara in the video who as much as i hope we trade for i know we won't.
EDIT: Forgot to add Morton to the mix. He is a B+ level player if he can get his head in a good space. His marking ability as a wing or resting forward is very good.
- Thread starter
- #423
Re: drafting
I originally thought GC and GWS would automatically be future superpowers (as you have indicated as your view) based on their draft concessions, but they do have to mix a lot of AFL discards/players from state leagues etc to fill their list, and as their salary cap and list concessions wind back, and the "go home" factor comes into play, I wouldn't be surprised if they struggle to hold onto all their guns. I'm back to thinking "the champion team over the team of champions". Not so sure the two newbies will automatically be the AFL superpowers of 2015 - 2020 I once feared.
You are hard to follow Magic.... you seem to be making the point that most premiers are undeserving, and only fluke their wins.... if that's the case, what's the point of trying to build the best team. We should build the second/third/fourth best list and wait for the better team to be poorly coached so we can fluke a premiership?
I originally thought GC and GWS would automatically be future superpowers (as you have indicated as your view) based on their draft concessions, but they do have to mix a lot of AFL discards/players from state leagues etc to fill their list, and as their salary cap and list concessions wind back, and the "go home" factor comes into play, I wouldn't be surprised if they struggle to hold onto all their guns. I'm back to thinking "the champion team over the team of champions". Not so sure the two newbies will automatically be the AFL superpowers of 2015 - 2020 I once feared.
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Re: drafting
Should have added we need probably 4-6 A-Graders on the list with 2 or 3 being A+ (These being the star power)
8-10 in the B+ category (These are the very good players that as RFC supporters would regard as very good players who can rack up your 30 touches or kick a bag of goals occassionally while being consistently good player each week)
Another 6-8 in the B category and some C+ role players. (These are your bottom 6 players in the 22 that need to be of a good standard to not be exposed...This is where the losing grand finallist often get exposed.)
If we traded Edwards for a 2nd round pick as suggested then i could see a side like this in 2 years with a rating they hopefully develop to.
B: Grimes (B+) Rance (A) Dea (B)
HB: Houli (B+) Astbury/Post (B) Batchelor (B+)
C: Deledio (A) Martin (A+) Conca (B+)
HF: Kavanagh (B+) Griffiths (B) Garlett (B+)
F: Vickery (A) Riewoldt (A+) Tipungwuti (B)
R: Bolger (B+) Cotchin (A+) Foley (B+)
INT: Newman (B) S.Taylor (B+) Waldhuter (B)
SUB: Morton (B)
Just some guesses as to who we would draft but had 2011: Kavanagh, Bolger (Edwards pick) Waldhuter, Ivan Maric, Tipungwuti
2012: Garlett, S.Taylor (compo) 2nd round: best available
2013/14: Best available most likely some more midfield depth
A+
Cotchin - will be captain and our best midfielder constantly winning the clearances and cop the no.1 tag each week
Martin - Will be our trump card. Our match winner. Rack up big numbers in the middle and go forward and be capable of kicking big bags of goals.
Riewoldt - Our number 1 KPF who will win us some games off his own boot and be an AA regularly.
A
Deledio - borderline A+ but was being conservative. Can see him spending more time forward in this team as well as predominantly wing to really take advantage. Him and Martin rotating mid/forward.
Rance - will be our no.1 KPD and take the oppositions best forward and shut them down ala his jobs on J.Brown and A.Goodes.
Vickery - A nightmare for oppositions with his ruck ability/groundwork and ability to kick a bag on the 2nd/3rd defender.
B+
Grimes - looks like our 3rd tall defender who can play small, medium or tall depending on the opposition. will be our versatile type.
Houli - best kick in the team although Garlett will give that a shake i believe if we get him. Getting better contested wise and will hopefully improve some more.
Batchelor - Him and Houli are two of the best pick-ups ive seen for us. So composed, great size and a wonderful kick of the footy.
Conca - has the ability to play inside/outside and be a link man. Currently Grigg is playing the role i think Conca will take over. Hopefully will become a goalkicker in time.
Kavanagh - very highly touted but injuries have ruined his year so will hopefully slide a bit. a complete mid with speed and skills and can play in or out.
Garlett - icing on the cake type player. amazing skills and speed and as a wing will really break the lines something we really need. Wings of Garlett/Deledio is tantalising.
Foley - already a proven midfielder, and has potential to be an A-grader again but doubt he will get back to that level. Will be the type to have big games and get off the leash when Cotch/Martin are being held.
S.Taylor - x-factor half forward...great goal-sense and speed. Really like him if he slides to our compo pick.
Bolger - If he slides and we can get another pick to take him ill be wrapt. WIll take time and Maric will play number 1 for a few years. Bolger/Vickery combo will be up there with the best.
B
Dea - can see him being even better than this but at worst will be a best 22 lock down defender. due to his size/speed can play on the smalls and worry them out of the contest. needs more game time to fast-track him.
Post/Astbury - one of these needs to come on to at least this level. will only be required to take the 2nd best tall from opposition. The other will be a handy depth player for an injury.
Griffiths - CHF of the future if he stays injury free. Or swap him with Jack. Will more than likely only cop 3rd best defender which could be exciting. Like him at CHF being able to kick from 60+. Could very well develop into much higher than a B-grader as well.
Tipungwuti - if u watch the highlights package i put up this kid could be a star, capable of the impossible. Could very well be alot better than a b-grader. could also be a total bust. Worth it as a 4th rounder.
Newman - will be slowly going into decline but would add veteran experience and isn't overly quick anyway. As a depth player in our bottom 6 rather that top 10 he would be handy. He won't lose his kicking ability or leadership.
Waldhuter - As a 2nd round pick can hardly expect an A-grader but is tough as nails loves a tackle and a good kick. Good replacement for Tucky long-term. Will be a vital cog without being a star.
Morton - see him as an ideal sub. Can come on and kick a few quick goals or play in the centre. just needs to get his head right and will be better than b-grade.
Depth: Thursfield, Grigg, Jackson, Maric, Connors, Helbig, MacDonald, Jakobi, Derickx, Post/Astbury
Should have added we need probably 4-6 A-Graders on the list with 2 or 3 being A+ (These being the star power)
8-10 in the B+ category (These are the very good players that as RFC supporters would regard as very good players who can rack up your 30 touches or kick a bag of goals occassionally while being consistently good player each week)
Another 6-8 in the B category and some C+ role players. (These are your bottom 6 players in the 22 that need to be of a good standard to not be exposed...This is where the losing grand finallist often get exposed.)
If we traded Edwards for a 2nd round pick as suggested then i could see a side like this in 2 years with a rating they hopefully develop to.
B: Grimes (B+) Rance (A) Dea (B)
HB: Houli (B+) Astbury/Post (B) Batchelor (B+)
C: Deledio (A) Martin (A+) Conca (B+)
HF: Kavanagh (B+) Griffiths (B) Garlett (B+)
F: Vickery (A) Riewoldt (A+) Tipungwuti (B)
R: Bolger (B+) Cotchin (A+) Foley (B+)
INT: Newman (B) S.Taylor (B+) Waldhuter (B)
SUB: Morton (B)
Just some guesses as to who we would draft but had 2011: Kavanagh, Bolger (Edwards pick) Waldhuter, Ivan Maric, Tipungwuti
2012: Garlett, S.Taylor (compo) 2nd round: best available
2013/14: Best available most likely some more midfield depth
A+
Cotchin - will be captain and our best midfielder constantly winning the clearances and cop the no.1 tag each week
Martin - Will be our trump card. Our match winner. Rack up big numbers in the middle and go forward and be capable of kicking big bags of goals.
Riewoldt - Our number 1 KPF who will win us some games off his own boot and be an AA regularly.
A
Deledio - borderline A+ but was being conservative. Can see him spending more time forward in this team as well as predominantly wing to really take advantage. Him and Martin rotating mid/forward.
Rance - will be our no.1 KPD and take the oppositions best forward and shut them down ala his jobs on J.Brown and A.Goodes.
Vickery - A nightmare for oppositions with his ruck ability/groundwork and ability to kick a bag on the 2nd/3rd defender.
B+
Grimes - looks like our 3rd tall defender who can play small, medium or tall depending on the opposition. will be our versatile type.
Houli - best kick in the team although Garlett will give that a shake i believe if we get him. Getting better contested wise and will hopefully improve some more.
Batchelor - Him and Houli are two of the best pick-ups ive seen for us. So composed, great size and a wonderful kick of the footy.
Conca - has the ability to play inside/outside and be a link man. Currently Grigg is playing the role i think Conca will take over. Hopefully will become a goalkicker in time.
Kavanagh - very highly touted but injuries have ruined his year so will hopefully slide a bit. a complete mid with speed and skills and can play in or out.
Garlett - icing on the cake type player. amazing skills and speed and as a wing will really break the lines something we really need. Wings of Garlett/Deledio is tantalising.
Foley - already a proven midfielder, and has potential to be an A-grader again but doubt he will get back to that level. Will be the type to have big games and get off the leash when Cotch/Martin are being held.
S.Taylor - x-factor half forward...great goal-sense and speed. Really like him if he slides to our compo pick.
Bolger - If he slides and we can get another pick to take him ill be wrapt. WIll take time and Maric will play number 1 for a few years. Bolger/Vickery combo will be up there with the best.
B
Dea - can see him being even better than this but at worst will be a best 22 lock down defender. due to his size/speed can play on the smalls and worry them out of the contest. needs more game time to fast-track him.
Post/Astbury - one of these needs to come on to at least this level. will only be required to take the 2nd best tall from opposition. The other will be a handy depth player for an injury.
Griffiths - CHF of the future if he stays injury free. Or swap him with Jack. Will more than likely only cop 3rd best defender which could be exciting. Like him at CHF being able to kick from 60+. Could very well develop into much higher than a B-grader as well.
Tipungwuti - if u watch the highlights package i put up this kid could be a star, capable of the impossible. Could very well be alot better than a b-grader. could also be a total bust. Worth it as a 4th rounder.
Newman - will be slowly going into decline but would add veteran experience and isn't overly quick anyway. As a depth player in our bottom 6 rather that top 10 he would be handy. He won't lose his kicking ability or leadership.
Waldhuter - As a 2nd round pick can hardly expect an A-grader but is tough as nails loves a tackle and a good kick. Good replacement for Tucky long-term. Will be a vital cog without being a star.
Morton - see him as an ideal sub. Can come on and kick a few quick goals or play in the centre. just needs to get his head right and will be better than b-grade.
Depth: Thursfield, Grigg, Jackson, Maric, Connors, Helbig, MacDonald, Jakobi, Derickx, Post/Astbury
Re: drafting
Tigs you're hoping for a lot of sliding happening.
Anyways since when does FJ follow the mock drafts. He might have another Conca and Batchelor ready to snap up with our first or second.
Tigs you're hoping for a lot of sliding happening.
Anyways since when does FJ follow the mock drafts. He might have another Conca and Batchelor ready to snap up with our first or second.
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