List Mgmt. Draft thread - 2025 (remaining picks: 29, 34)

[Keys]

Live draft hand
R1: 1 (Duursma), 4 (CDT), 19 (Lindsay)
R2: 29, 34
RD: 1

Draft picks pre-draft
R1: 1, 2, 13
R2: 34, 41
RD: 1

List spots available
Main list: 2 (includes Duursma, CDT, Lindsay)
Cat A Rookie list: 1 (expecting Robertson, Macrae and Schoenberg to join as SSP signings)
Cat B Rookie list: 1

Draft order

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Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)

Rookie Me Central 2025 Draft Guide

2025 AFL Draft Guide

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Matthew Clarke on Gettable 17/11

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Cal Twomey’s Phantom Draft

Spoiler

 

[dinnaz]

TDK has a poor win% in ruck contests, at 37.1 BUT he is 4th in the comp for hard ball gets for rucks, 2nd for metres gained(despite playing lower % of game time in the ruck compared to most #1 rucks at 64%), and 6th for disposals for a ruckman again despite having despite playing larger time forward, the rucks ahead of him are the Gawn/Xerri/Cameron/English types who do 75%+ time in the ruck.

Hes probably the prototype of what clubs will be looking for in a modern ruckman, and closer to what we expect from CDT

The comparisons with CDT are pretty good actually. Though he is a better forward and better on the spread.

Rucks need to be good at:
Hitouts
Marks
Goals

Everything else is a bonus, not a necessity. Hell even his defensive stuff: tackles, 1% and pressure acts are all poor.
As a strength, you can argue that he gets above average disposals for a ruck/fwd. But at 60-65% disposal efficiency over his career you don't really want it in his hands. (Bombing it forward over 40m actually counts as effective too)

 

[stallon]

The comparisons with CDT are pretty good actually. Though he is a better forward and better on the spread.

Rucks need to be good at:
Hitouts
Marks
Goals

Theres more than 1 way to play the game, like how some KPFs are bigger guys who clunk contested marks, and some are more athletic relying on leading patterns.
Same with ruckmen, compare Sandilands and Cox of years past, both had different styles but both were still very good. CDT and TDK are just further to the extra midfielder side again, which I think can work.
Just because it hasnt really been seen yet doesnt mean it cant/wont work well. Players seem to be getting taller and more athletic all the time, Sam Darcy for example, nobody liek him has been in the AFL before.

Not directing at you specifically, but in general bigfooty seems pretty close minded to slightly alternate playstyles or alternative ways to play the game. They might be right but I wouldnt dismiss CDT yet just because hes not a traditional ruckman

Everything else is a bonus, not a necessity. Hell even his defensive stuff: tackles, 1% and pressure acts are all poor.
As a strength, you can argue that he gets above average disposals for a ruck/fwd. But at 60-65% disposal efficiency over his career you don't really want it in his hands. (Bombing it forward over 40m actually counts as effective too)

I agree TDK hasnt really blown the competition apart or anything, but hes still relatively young for a ruckman, and imo he will be one of the best in the comp in the next couple of years.

 

[Mr Q]

How much longer can CDT be debated?

The debate might end somewhere around the late 2030s.

 

[beatlesmith]

Rucks need to be good at:
Hitouts
Marks
Goals

Everything else is a bonus, not a necessity.

This is very antiquated thinking that is out of step with modern footy.

Effectiveness at ground level around stoppages and is becoming the most important trait for ruckman, because the league has realised that (outside of outliers like NN) the skill of rucking is largely unimportant to winning football. Most rucks win hitouts at a rate of 40-50% and hit those wins to advantage 25-30% of the time. There’s not much that separates them statistically.

The three best rucks in football - Gawn, Grundy and Xerri - are also the three leading clearance winners among rucks. That’s not a coincidence.

Marking is also an overrated skill among ruckmen. Believe it or not but Matt Flynn was second among ruckmen for contested marks this year with 1.6 per game (Gawn first with 2.3). Having constant presence around the ground outweighs 1-2 contested marks per game.

Goals are also unimportant for ruckmen. Excluding Jackson, who played a lot of the season up forward in tandem with Darcy, the next highest scoring ruckman was English with 13. Gawn, Grundy and Xerri kicked 17 between them.

If CDT can be competitive enough in the ruck not to let his opponent give free service (similar to TDK), he will be a very good player.

Personally I want to see Archer Reid given that chance and then see how Walsh/Van Rooyen look, but I understand CDT’s appeal.

 

[Keys]

One of my favourite takes so far is the idea of making pick 2 more appealing to buyers by not taking the best player with said pick and then selling it off.

Yep that’ll do it.

Or you know we could just sell pick 1 instead.

Or even better yet just take the best talent with pick 1.

Some Absolute rocket science going on in these parts with the desperation to trade out off what is the strongest draft hand we have had in… checks notes… forever ?

There’s very little, if any, support for trading pick 1 unless it was for picks 5 and 6 which is unlikely - it would arguably be a better offer than what we received for Harley two years ago

Pick 2 is different. Partly because the gap between the nominally ranked second best open pool player, Duff-Tytler and the next player(s) isn’t as great. It’s also a choice between drafting best available vs needs - whilst we need a ruckman, CDT is more a forward/ruck which is less of a need whereas Sharp almost seems factory built to play the inside extractor role we’re desperately lacking. On actual performance there doesn’t seem to be a big gap between the two although CDT has a higher ceiling- potentially- which we may or may not be able to realise with our current setup. Or have the time/patience to do so

We could justifiably take Sharp with pick two and may well do so

Alternatively, we can recognise that other teams might be more interested in CDT than we are and be prepared to trade up for him. So it’s possible we could trade pick 2 to Essendon for pick 5 plus something else and still get the player we wanted (Sharp) at 2 with pick 5

It probably won’t happen because Essendon might not be that interested or the Eagles recruiters might rate CDT more highly than some posters here do. But there’s merit to thinking of splitting the pick, especially when we are guaranteed the almost unanimous best player with pick 1

 

[dinnaz]

Theres more than 1 way to play the game, like how some KPFs are bigger guys who clunk contested marks, and some are more athletic relying on leading patterns.
Same with ruckmen, compare Sandilands and Cox of years past, both had different styles but both were still very good. CDT and TDK are just further to the extra midfielder side again, which I think can work.

Cox was elite at the important stuff, and elite at the bonus stuff as well. The most well rounded ruck probably ever. Sandilands was a hitout machine, also one of the key components. What not even their own supporters rate are guys like Rhys Stanley who is lightning quick and athletic but decidedly average at everything else.

Just because it hasnt really been seen yet doesnt mean it cant/wont work well. Players seem to be getting taller and more athletic all the time, Sam Darcy for example, nobody liek him has been in the AFL before.
Not directing at you specifically, but in general bigfooty seems pretty close minded to slightly alternate playstyles or alternative ways to play the game. They might be right but I wouldnt dismiss CDT yet just because hes not a traditional ruckman

CDT is a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. Coaches will love the utility he provides & his "extra midfielder" style. Should play 150 games games at least so he's no bust. I think he pinch hits as ruck and stays forward majority of the time. Starts his career similar to Ethan Read from GC.

I agree TDK hasnt really blown the competition apart or anything, but hes still relatively young for a ruckman, and imo he will be one of the best in the comp in the next couple of years.

His peak is nowish but even then I doubt he's a top 5 ruck in the comp.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Ok which one of you fools is masquerading as a Bombers fan on YT?

 

[Yeahnahmate]

It’s becoming increasingly apparent most of this board would probably prefer an STI to a CDT

 

[dinnaz]

This is very antiquated thinking that is out of step with modern footy.

Effectiveness at ground level around stoppages and is becoming the most important trait for ruckman, because the league has realised that (outside of outliers like NN) the skill of rucking is largely unimportant to winning football. Most rucks win hitouts at a rate of 40-50% and hit those wins to advantage 25-30% of the time. There’s not much that separates them statistically.

Not at all. For example Gawn's bread and butter is hotouts and marks. Grundy is seen as inferior despite having more presence around the footy. This generation is all about limiting the uselessness of the rucks since no club will spend time developing them any more.

The three best rucks in football - Gawn, Grundy and Xerri - are also the three leading clearance winners among rucks. That’s not a coincidence.

Marking is also an overrated skill among ruckmen. Believe it or not but Matt Flynn was second among ruckmen for contested marks this year with 1.6 per game (Gawn first with 2.3). Having constant presence around the ground outweighs 1-2 contested marks per game.

Xerri is a long bow to pull to say he's the 3rd best ruck in Australia. He's a klutz who is only good at see ball get ball.

I believe it, he has been very good at it on the wing especially later in the season. Everyone here bemoans him but he has been quite solid IMO.

Goals are also unimportant for ruckmen. Excluding Jackson, who played a lot of the season up forward in tandem with Darcy, the next highest scoring ruckman was English with 13. Gawn, Grundy and Xerri kicked 17 between them.

Goals as a measure of when they rest forward & how much value do they add. No one is rucking a whole game of AFL solo, and you can't afford to have a headless chook getting in the way. One of the biggest constant headaches for coaches is the 1.5 ruck quandary. Geelong played a cooked Stanley in a GF for goodness sakes.

If CDT can be competitive enough in the ruck not to let his opponent give free service (similar to TDK), he will be a very good player.

Personally I want to see Archer Reid given that chance and then see how Walsh/Van Rooyen look, but I understand CDT’s appeal.

We have plenty of talls already I'd take him at 13 no problems if he was there.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I just had a look at Tom De Koning’s stats in the Coates talent league vs CDT’s
CDT takes the chocolates by a fair margin, in disposals, marks, hit outs.
I don’t buy this crap the CDT isn’t a ruckman, he is developing very nicely and if he end’s anywhere near as good as Tom De Koning, WC would be mad not to take him, in what is a position of dire need for our team, start him up forward and transition to ruck over time.
View attachment 2460992
View attachment 2460993

But i don't rate TDK as a ruck either?

No one is doubting that CDT is talented and has intriguing physical attributes. The questions is whether he will be a number 1 ruck (i say no), and if not, then what/where is he and do we need that role as opposed to an A grade midfielder.

I'm on the path of take Dursma, then try to convert pick 2 into Sharp, if that can be done by trading down and still getting Sharp and adding other assets then do it. If not, then just take Sharp, the gap isn't that far apart between him and CDT.

 

[MaxHunt]

I wonder if they take WD and CDT, would they look at Greeves at 13?

 

[Monocle]

I wonder if they take DW and CDT, would they look at Greeves at 13?

Personally I think DW is a massive reach that early.

On a serious note at 13, I would prefer Phillipou or Barker over Greeves, as both of them have a much higher ceiling, I also think that 13 is a great spot to be sitting as a slider often falls out to that range most drafts.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Anyone not see the fact CDT could be a midfielder in the mould of Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

24

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

when he has pinch hit goes at it?

The concept he is a ruck to me seems fanciful. He is your 2nd ruck backup guy. The idea he needs to be a elite ruck is putting him into a role he wont play

 

[Altum Volantes]

With Jamieson delisted surely the club doesn't miss this golden opportunity to team up with an internationally recognised brand?

The colours already work!

Could really corner the basic home maintenience and non-sexual lubricant market. Finally.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Anyone not see the fact CDT could be a midfielder in the mould of Luke Jackson when he has pinch hit goes at it?

The concept he is a ruck to me seems fanciful. He is your 2nd ruck backup guy. The idea he needs to be a elite ruck is putting him into a role he wont play

Someone posted their U18 vidoes recently. Luke Jackson was much more agile qwith quicker reactions in close than CDT.

Jackson can play as a centre square/inside mid as a result. CDT looks more like a Tim English style extra mid, where he can spread and find space, playing as an outside mid, rather than an inside mid.

In my view that's less valuable than Jackson.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Someone posted their U18 vidoes recently. Luke Jackson was much more agile qwith quicker reactions in close than CDT.

Jackson can play as a centre square/inside mid as a result. CDT looks more like a Tim English style extra mid, where he can spread and find space, playing as an outside mid, rather than an inside mid.

In my view that's less valuable than Jackson.

Agreed on that but I still think CDT is agile enough for the midfield. Lets be honest, Luke Jackson has turned into a absolute gun. Id trade pick 1 for him in a heartbeat

If CDT turns into a poor mans Luke Jackson thats a great selection still

 

[Altum Volantes]

Someone posted their U18 vidoes recently. Luke Jackson was much more agile qwith quicker reactions in close than CDT.

Jackson can play as a centre square/inside mid as a result. CDT looks more like a Tim English style extra mid, where he can spread and find space, playing as an outside mid, rather than an inside mid.

In my view that's less valuable than Jackson.

So more Dean Cox than Nic Naitanui?

Can he actually ruck this kid? Or just quite tall?

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Agreed on that but I still think CDT is agile enough for the midfield. Lets be honest, Luke Jackson has turned into a absolute gun. Id trade pick 1 for him in a heartbeat

If CDT turns into a poor mans Luke Jackson thats a great selection still

Don't we have a poor man's Jackson in Bayley Williams.!!

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Don't we have a poor man's Jackson in Bayley Williams.!!

Temu Jackson at extreme best.

I just hope the new ruck rules help his game

 

[Coasters7]

Anyone not see the fact CDT could be a midfielder in the mould of Luke Jackson when he has pinch hit goes at it?

The concept he is a ruck to me seems fanciful. He is your 2nd ruck backup guy. The idea he needs to be a elite ruck is putting him into a role he wont play

With the right midfield we could definitely line up with a Reid/CDT ruck tandem with no recognised number 1.

We’ll never dominate the hitouts but you don’t necessarily need to if they’re able to hurt around the ground. Suits Minis run and gun gameplan too.

Ideally you want an elite tap ruckman but there’s not many of those in the AFL so I think this could be the next best thing.

 

[twce13]

I been trying to understand the hype behind CDT myself.

But say what you will about Cal Twoomey, but he is well connected in recruitment circles, so the hype must be real in said circles.

There’s group think that CDT is vastly overrated, I’m guilty too. But there must be something special about him for all this hype. It doesn’t make sense otherwise.

 

[RookiePick]

...., has risen up through the ranks and is rated highly by player agents.

No wonder when he has been handing 'em out like Oprah

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Ok which one of you fools is masquerading as a Bombers fan on YT?

View attachment 2461251

Essendon fans have had it in their minds for like a month now that they're gonna be fleecing us for either picks 1 or 2. They really REALLY f*cking want Duursma, man.

 

[MaxHunt]

Personally I think DW is a massive reach that early.

On a serious note at 13, I would prefer Phillipou or Barker over Greeves, as both of them have a much higher ceiling, I also think that 13 is a great spot to be sitting as a slider often falls out to that range most drafts.

I'd prefer Barker as he looks more like a genuine mid compared to Phillipou and if they take WD and CDT I think I genuine mid is needed.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Anyone not see the fact CDT could be a midfielder in the mould of Luke Jackson when he has pinch hit goes at it?

The concept he is a ruck to me seems fanciful. He is your 2nd ruck backup guy. The idea he needs to be a elite ruck is putting him into a role he wont play

I really don't understand this kind of take from posters on here. At most, posters watched some highlights and at worst are just parroting what they've read. Even those posters on here taht that watch underage football are just amateurs.

How can the concensus #2 pick be this roundly dismissed?

He is tall & athletic beyond what most 2004cm 18 year olds are, has good skills, can football. Is there any possibility that professional talent scouts are seeing what he brings to the table long term, and not assuming he's the finished product at age 18? Whereas most talls are said to take longer to develop, he's seen as being able to play AFL in year 1, let alone what he'll be when he's in his mid-20s? That his size, athleticism and skills fit into the what the future of AFL is?


Not directing it specifically at you GoEaglesGoSGIO. But gee wizz Yeahnahmate was spot on with his STI comment.