List Mgmt. Draft Watch 2015

[spenze]

I don't think he will

Agreed, jury is still out on him. I concur with others who think Priddis got quite a few votes last year when umpires failed to notice the difference between Priddis and Natanui and awarded all Nic nat votes to his "doppelganger"

 

[Wouldbetackler]

Yep, For a 20 year old kid, with a a limited fitness base his numbers look pretty good to me. Excepting the Clanger stat. View attachment 193052

That's averaging 21 disposals with probably nearly half of his games as sub too he is a very good young inside mid. If we remember thommo is not a very good field kick either but can be a match winner. If we can get the two brothers playing together for once look out

 

[Mike Smyth]

I would really love to draft Burton but the injury appears to be to severe to take the risk.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I didn't think Nathan bock would make the grade... So just saying it's impossible to predict the potential of all players.

It's not difficult to change your mind & admit you got it badly wrong.

Same with me on Bock .....and even Hentschell .....both horrid in their first few years

But you have to have some weapons at AFL level as a tall

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Many people also didn't believe M Priddis would make the grade

Tried out with us twice ......considered a one paced plodder with no length on his kick

Goes to show you have to also consider what makes each person tick inside and their motivation / workrate

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I would really love to draft Burton but the injury appears to be to severe to take the risk.

The romantic in me says he'll make a full recovery and go on and be a star ....lets get him at #13

The pragmatist in me says ....a player that will have to be managed his whole career ...may or may not overcome the injury and have a great career

Really ..the club will make that call & i trust them to make the correct call .....IMO Burton's ours to lose at #13

 

[Mego Red]

I think there is a strategy for Shaw and Otten to be KP depth. You may see them changing some of their body shape this off season to take on more muscle. Or not.

 

[Scorpus]

Talia: 196cm and 95kg
Hartigan: 193cm and 89kg
Otten: 194cm and 92kg (better than I expected)
Shaw: 194cm and 86kg
Lever: 193cm and 84kg

I'll put up our KP forwards as an example of the size of guys they'd be looking at covering:
Walker: 194cm and 98kg
Jenkins: 199cm and 103kg


Looking at the two Eagles players you've listed in Schofield and McGovern which are considered backup KP/3rd tall types:
Schofield: 196cm and 94kg
McGovern: 190cm and 96kg

These are correct:

Talia: 195cm, 97kg
Hartigan: 194cm, 94kg
Otten: 192cm, 91kg
Shaw: 193cm, 90kg
Lever: 194cm, 85kg

Walker: 192cm, 100kg
Jenkins: 198cm, 104kg

Schofield: 196cm, 92kg
McGovern: 195cm, 96kg
(McKenzie: 196cm, 98kg)
(Brown: 195cm, 93kg)

Shaw isn't too far off some other KPDs though, such as Michael Johnson (195cm, 88kg). The reason he isn't a very good KPD has more to do with skill than size.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think there is a strategy for Shaw and Otten to be KP depth. You may see them changing some of their body shape this off season to take on more muscle. Or not.

Do you want to slow Otten down even more?

Nah ....Shaw and Otten are true utilities that can play back and forward as 3rd talls ......might pitch hit in an emergency as a KPP, but only if we have a rough trot with injuries

 

[lunacy]

The 'problem' I have with Shaw/Otten as KP defenders is they're not the greatest lockdown defenders (both are quite good over the top/help out) and you factor that in with their weight which is often forgotten when talking about KP players and you begin to see the reason why I/others aren't keen on the idea of them being our backup KP defenders (when it's clear their best role is the 3rd tall position).


*using fanfooty as my resource for height/weight (info that differs from site to site)*

Talia: 196cm and 95kg
Hartigan: 193cm and 89kg
Otten: 194cm and 92kg (better than I expected)
Shaw: 194cm and 86kg
Lever: 193cm and 84kg

I'll put up our KP forwards as an example of the size of guys they'd be looking at covering:
Walker: 194cm and 98kg
Jenkins: 199cm and 103kg


Looking at the two Eagles players you've listed in Schofield and McGovern which are considered backup KP/3rd tall types:
Schofield: 196cm and 94kg
McGovern: 190cm and 96kg



So whilst Otten isn't too underweight, someone like Shaw is a good 8-10kg lighter then the equivalent WCE guys and 12-17kg lighter then our key position forwards and probably something similar to what he'd be giving up each week if he had to play that role. Can't really expect him to hold his own in a 1v1 contest like the above WCE guys were who would be much harder to move than Shaw due to their size I'd imagine. Shaw has also been in the system for quite some time now so I'm guessing he's probably not going to put on much more size if he hasn't already.

Due to our lack of depth in the KP area I have no doubt that we'd look to him if Talia/Hartigan were to get injured, I just don't see him doing a great job in the role as his body shape isn't really that of what a KP player should be.

I'm pretty sure those heights are inaccurate.

 

[dylan123]

I think there is a strategy for Shaw and Otten to be KP depth. You may see them changing some of their body shape this off season to take on more muscle. Or not.

With Shaw, I would have thought that would have been our plan heading into the 2015 season with our lack of KP depth but he still doesn't look like a KP player (because he's not) imo.

Hopefully none of us will ever know either way but if he does get called up then I hope he can prove me wrong. Hopefully Pyke can bring across WCE defensive structure where they did very well at holding the opposition whilst being quite undersized in the backline.

I'm pretty sure those heights are inaccurate.

Yeah a few have pointed it out, kind of why I put my resource in as those stats differ from site to site but they seem to be quite off (possibly a season old in data perhaps?).

 

[Donkey Magoo]

Tried out with us twice ......considered a one paced plodder with no length on his kick

Goes to show you have to also consider what makes each person tick inside and their motivation / workrate

Spot on, for me, what's in between their ears is almost as important as the tallent. You can't will your way to height, but you can train harder, smarter longer. Some of these kids might not have the body that they will play in as adults but the right headspace on a top end talent will see them be solid.

 

[Captain Furious]

The romantic in me says he'll make a full recovery and go on and be a star ....lets get him at #13

The pragmatist in me says ....a player that will have to be managed his whole career ...may or may not overcome the injury and have a great career

Really ..the club will make that call & i trust them to make the correct call .....IMO Burton's ours to lose at #13

There's whispers about Carlton at 11 and Richmond at 12.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Tried out with us twice ......considered a one paced plodder with no length on his kick

Goes to show you have to also consider what makes each person tick inside and their motivation / workrate

IMO often recruiters look for flaws and reasons why not to recruit a player and in doing so ignore good reasons at why they should recruit the player

 

[WaynesWorld19]

IMO often recruiters look for flaws and reasons why not to recruit a player and in doing so ignore good reasons at why they should recruit the player

Blight said when he was coach of Geelong ...you can only afford one slow player in your midfield ....was responding to a question about keeping Paul Couch and trading a player that i can't remember ?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Spot on, for me, what's in between their ears is almost as important as the tallent. You can't will your way to height, but you can train harder, smarter longer. Some of these kids might not have the body that they will play in as adults but the right headspace on a top end talent will see them be solid.

I would go further & say the mental side of things is just as important as raw talent.

 

[RePete]

I had a dream last night that we drafted Ah Chee with pick 13. Not sure who we picked at 9.

My dreams are unreliable as I also dreamt that we beat Freo in the Preliminary Final but my subconscious showed the Hawks no respect whatsoever and paid the price.

I dreamt we drafted Mathieson with 13. I am not sure if it was our 9 that turned into 13 after all the Academy selections or our second pick.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

For so long we craved a small forward .......and finally got Eddie Betts who I believe can play another 4 years ...which amazingly will make him a 300 game player

Betts was originally drafted by Carlton with pick #3 in the 2004 Pre-Season Draft

Watching his draft year at 173cm Betts was as good in U18 as he is now ......but at 173cm was deemed too small

Is next years draft when we have to start thinking about a Betts replacement ? ....2016 or 2017 draft?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

For so long we craved a small forward .......and finally got Eddie Betts who I believe can play another 4 years ...which amazingly will make him a 300 game player

Betts was originally drafted by Carlton with pick #3 in the 2004 Pre-Season Draft

Watching his draft year at 173cm Betts was as good in U18 as he is now ......but at 173cm was deemed too small

Is next years draft when we have to start thinking about a Betts replacement ? ....2016 or 2017 draft?

I think we've gone from drought to riches in this area. We have Cameron, Menzel and knight (although all three may end up in the midfield). Milera would be another one if we could get him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

With Shaw, I would have thought that would have been our plan heading into the 2015 season with our lack of KP depth but he still doesn't look like a KP player (because he's not) imo.
.

Shaw i agree doesn't play or look like a KPP .....a bit like Hawthorn's Birchall at the same height being played CHB ?

Shaw's best role is HB or HF .....but we're still to judge a full season uninjured and with some form behind him ...hopefully 2016 is that year

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think we've gone from drought to riches in this area. We have Cameron, Menzel and knight (although all three may end up in the midfield). Milera would be another one if we could get him.

None of those though are that traditional crumbing small forward .....Cameron will move up the ground ultimately IMO and all those mentioned are quite tall

I'm talking about a true ground ball crumber .....ability to turn something from nothing?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I dreamt we drafted Mathieson with 13. I am not sure if it was our 9 that turned into 13 after all the Academy selections or our second pick.

Already have Mathieson ? ........changed his name though to Jared Lyons

 

[Mismatched]

None of those though are that traditional crumbing small forward .....Cameron will move up the ground ultimately IMO and all those mentioned are quite tall

I'm talking about a true ground ball crumber .....ability to turn something from nothing?

These types are generally pretty good to go after a year or two, don't need too much development to get to an acceptable level. Issue is they're very hit and miss, and you don't want them languishing the ressies too long.

Given we have Cameron, Menzel and Knight who can all play the crumbing role, I don't think we should rush to find a replacement. Better off grabbing 2-3 guys a year or 2 before Eddie retires.

 

[azza77]

The 'problem' I have with Shaw/Otten as KP defenders is they're not the greatest lockdown defenders (both are quite good over the top/help out) and you factor that in with their weight which is often forgotten when talking about KP players and you begin to see the reason why I/others aren't keen on the idea of them being our backup KP defenders (when it's clear their best role is the 3rd tall position).


*using fanfooty as my resource for height/weight (info that differs from site to site)*

Talia: 196cm and 95kg
Hartigan: 193cm and 89kg
Otten: 194cm and 92kg (better than I expected)
Shaw: 194cm and 86kg
Lever: 193cm and 84kg

I'll put up our KP forwards as an example of the size of guys they'd be looking at covering:
Walker: 194cm and 98kg
Jenkins: 199cm and 103kg


Looking at the two Eagles players you've listed in Schofield and McGovern which are considered backup KP/3rd tall types:
Schofield: 196cm and 94kg
McGovern: 190cm and 96kg



So whilst Otten isn't too underweight, someone like Shaw is a good 8-10kg lighter then the equivalent WCE guys and 12-17kg lighter then our key position forwards and probably something similar to what he'd be giving up each week if he had to play that role. Can't really expect him to hold his own in a 1v1 contest like the above WCE guys were who would be much harder to move than Shaw due to their size I'd imagine. Shaw has also been in the system for quite some time now so I'm guessing he's probably not going to put on much more size if he hasn't already.

Due to our lack of depth in the KP area I have no doubt that we'd look to him if Talia/Hartigan were to get injured, I just don't see him doing a great job in the role as his body shape isn't really that of what a KP player should be.

Look I don't disagree with you. Shaw is one of those types where he is going to cause constant debate about which category he falls into.

The way I look at it is, I don't see Shaw as a medium defender. I don't see him in a Smith/Seedsman/Birchall type, or even Francis for example if he was to play in a backline for example. I see him as a Ben Stratton type. In a 'perfect' scenario, you'd want Shaw to match up on the undersized KPFs as I like to refer to them, who are probably a bit more mobile. Off the tope of my head you've got players like Mayne, Gunston, Darling, Crameri/Stringer, Tomlinson etc. You'd hope that Shaw wouldn't have to line up against a Jenkins or a Hawkins say for example.

I think if one of the big KPPs went down like Hartigan, Otten would be first in line to replace them due to his superior size as you pointed out. But if someone like Lever wasn't in the team for a specific reason, I would think the club would now start to maybe consider Shaw over Cheney due to his superior size and athleticism. The important point here being that while he is coming in to play on that third tall, he still classifies (for me) as a KPD.

I think the term 3rd tall gets lots in translation a lot. As I stated previously, the most conventional set up clubs go with these days is the 3 pronged forward line, 2 genuine forwards and a resting ruckman, in which the defence is most likely going to need 3 genuine KPDs to combat this. When teams didn't have 3 genuine forwards we would use Lever as a loose in defence to play an intercept game, but that doesn't mean he's not a KPD.

If push came to shove, Id still have Shaw in the KPD basket when analysing our club depth, but only just. I think he may be a bit underweight atm due to his constant injuries, as he was looking quite the unit back in early 2013 IIRC. He played on the likes or Reid, Mayne, May, Folau and Hansen in 2012 as well. I remember him being quite strong and given he gets a full pre-season done I think he will be better prepared to play on the bigger boys.

Ultimately, my main arguments is this... the fact that Shaw is most likely the 5th in line at the club to play as a genuine KPD is a good thing, and I think somewhat underrated by a few on here. Sure, Otten and Shaw do always have that injury factor hanging over their head, but they aren't the worst depth and I think a lot of clubs can't really say the same for their own KPD depth. I just don't think someone like Collins isn't worth using a high pick on just yet and I think we would be much better off targeting someone like Hartley (for example, he could well be gone by our rookie draft picks). Looking at what Pyke was able to achieve at the eagles this year with 1 genuine 196cm KPD and 1 190cm utility, Id somewhat back him in to implement a similar system if our club got itself into that much strife with injuries. The fact that we have Seedsman, Smith, Hampton, Lynch if need be, our own Mcgovern and possibly even Franics all standing at what, 187+cms, then I am more than comfortable going into 2016 with 5 defenders listed over 193cm.

I won't be angry at the club if they did happen to select Collins at 13, if they feel he is the best available then Id back them in given recent successes. Just looking at the list profile of the current Hawks and Eagles team, id really like us to build a solid and versatile midfield arsenal.

 

[FAITH]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-in-this-years-afl-draft-20151113-gkythc.html